Matt Payne is a Colorado Landscape Photographer and host of the "F-Stop Collaborate and Listen" Photography podcast

In This Episode You'll Learn:

• How Matt got his start in photography

• How Matt used his first camera

• What motivated Matt to learn photography

• Where Matt got inspired to grow his knowledge of photography

• How much photography is planned vs how much of a shot is magic

• The best thing Matt ever did to grow his photography community

• The lessons Matt's parents instilled in him to make him a better photographer

• Some must have gear for getting started with Landscape photography

• How night photography helped Matt better understand his camera settings

• One of the hardest aspects of landscape photography to learn

• Immediate signs of an amateur landscape photographer

• What Matt does when he shows up at a location and the conditions do not work out

Resources:

• Colorado Landscape Photographer Matt Payne's website

• F-Stop Collaborate and Listen Podcast

• Matt Paynes Instagram

Memorable Quotes:

• When I first started, I just pointed the camera at everything and didn't know what I was doing.

• I checked out every photography book at the library and became self-taught

• I have this struggle between my passions of climbing tall mountains and taking photos

• I would spend a couple hours a night experimenting with my camera to gain a better understanding of settings.

• Don't be afraid to other photographers question

• Sometimes you have to make the best of what nature gives you

Did you enjoy this episode? Check out more recent interviews with other great guests!

Full Episode Transcription:

Disclaimer: The transcript was transcribed electronically by Temi.com and may contain errors that do not reflect accurately what the speaker said. Because of this, please do not quote this automated transcript.

Raymond: 00:00 Hey Raymond here from the beginner photography podcast and I think that Hanson's Christmas album snowed in is the best holiday album ever. Okay, let's get into today's interview.

Intro: 00:13 Welcome to the beginner photography podcast with Raymond Hatfield, the podcast dedicated to interviewing world-class photographers to ask them the questions you want answered, whether you want to be the world's best wedding photographer, family photographer, pet photographer, or you just want to take better photos of your kids growing up. We will get you to start taking better photos today here with you as always, husband, father, home brewer, LA Dodger fan and award winning Indianapolis wedding photographer, Raven Hatfield.

Raymond: 00:48 Hey guys, welcome back to this week's episode of the beginner photography podcast. As always, I'm Raman Hatfield, your host and fellow photographer. I'm excited to have you guys here this week. It has been a very busy for me. I've been working on a ton with my business and even in my personal life this past weekend I got to shoot a wedding that had dueling pianos. There was no DJ, there was no live band, it was dueling pianos. And I've never seen anything like it. And and you know, maybe it's just me, they've, the, the company who does it is obviously been around for awhile, so I know that they do lots of weddings, but it was the first for me and I had a blast. It was truly something that was unique and, and just really got everybody excited and going that kept the party alive.

Raymond: 01:29 And it was, it was a blast to see. Those guys were great. So if you ever get a chance to go to a wedding with dueling pianos, go definitely. You know that you're going to have a great time for sure. The other thing this week personally I'm, I'm been getting excited. I've been packing because this weekend I am heading actually tomorrow morning, so if you're listening to this, I've are I'm gone. I'm actually back anyway. So I'm a heading out to Boston, flying to Boston and then me and two buddies are driving up to New Hampshire to go camping for the weekend. Somebody who haven't seen in a long time. I went to school with and I, I'm just really excited. I'm going to have a blast. And I thought about, you know what, I'm going to bring the kind of remember the the, the story by like in photos or video or anything like that.

Raymond: 02:18 And I thought, well, I'm definitely gonna bring a drone. It's a beautiful location. And then I, I found out that I, I broke my drone, so I gotta send that in so I can't bring that. And then I thought maybe I'll bring my my expert too. But then I thought, yeah, with the lenses and like I, I really think that it's going to be more about hanging out instead of like capturing a bunch of photos. I just like for, for a situation like this, I really want just like some snapshots and something now something not as planned out, but something that I'll still be able to remember it by. And I know that I like, I bet I feel like a broken record here and I promise you guys, I'm not sponsored by GoPro at all, but I'm only going to bring my GoPro, like that's it, my GoPro and my phone because those things are going to be the least of friction and being able to capture something that that I would want to remember and still have a great image quality to be able to to do something with those photos and remember my trip by, so kind of the, the point of me saying that is that you don't always have to bring all your gear wherever you go.

Raymond: 03:16 And I'm sure that you've heard me say that before, but there's plenty of situations that just don't require all the gear in your, in your bag. So, so that's it. I wanted to remind you guys last week I announced to the world the public release of the flash in a flash online video course. And the response so far has been wonderful. So just to remind you, flash like what the flashing of flash course is, is, is I just try to make flash easy for you. Okay? I try to show you that it's not scary. And by the end of the course, I want you to feel comfortable with your flash, and I want you to feel confident that you will be able to make great light. You know, wherever you don't, no matter where it is, whether it's your garage, or even a local park.

Raymond: 03:59 Because I take you with me on those to those exact locations, and I even show you the settings that I use to be able to get incredible images that my clients just absolutely love with using flash. So if you're interested in or you want to learn more about how to properly utilize your flash or start taking better photos today with flash then you can buy the course over at beginner photography, podcast.teachable.com. Again, that's beginner photography, podcast.teachable.com. Check that out. So we are going to get into this week's interview. I'm really excited for this one. Today's guest is a landscape photographer whose passion for photography came actually from another, another passion of his, the Joel learn about in the interview. And I think that you are going to really love his story or at least resonate it, resonate with it to some degree even if you don't climb mountains every single weekend, 14,000 foot mountains.

Raymond: 05:03 So without giving too much away, we are going to get into today's interview with Matt Payne. Today's guest is the host of the F stop, collaborate and listen podcast, a landscape photographer from Colorado who is on a mission to leave this world in a better place than when he found it today. I'm excited to chat with Matt Payne that thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Hey, my pleasure. Thanks for reaching out and being flexible with your schedule. Oh, I feel like, you know, when you're in different time zones and you talk with people kind of like around the world. Yeah. You have to be a little bit. So I'm just glad that the, like you said, we got to set this up. I mentioned there in the beginning that you are a not only are you a, a host of a photography podcast but you're also a landscape photographer. But I kinda wanna know, I wanna start from the, I want to know your your beginnings in photography. How'd you get, how'd you, how'd you start out?

Matt Payne: 06:05 Um I mean, you know, when I was a little kid, my parents gave me one of those little Kodak disc cameras. So like we'd go camping and hiking a lot and I'd take pictures of random stuff on the trails or at camp that I thought was interesting. And I mean, that's kind of how I got started, I guess. But I didn't really get super interested into photography until after I bought my own camera for my personal use back right after graduate school, which I guess would've been, gosh, 2003. So and when I first got it, you know, I was like, I'm just gonna take pictures of everything I have. Like, Oh, it's got a macro mode. I'm going to take a picture of a dollar bill and see how I can zoom in on that and how does that look?

Matt Payne: 06:53 And so, you know, I just just played with it. Tried to get familiar with it. I didn't even take my camera out of Otto for like 10 years. I mean, literally. Oh, wow. And then about 2008 I started climbing all the highest hundred mountains in Colorado. That's kinda been a lifelong goal of mine. And I got really back into it in 2008 and I was taking my camera with me to just kind of document my hikes and my climbs and photograph the beautiful scenery in Colorado. And just, you know, kind of two goals there. One to just, you know, something I can remember the trip about, like I can show my kid later in life, but then also like, you know, get other people excited about going to those places. And so again, I was shooting completely in auto didn't know what I was doing at all, just taking the camera out, pointing it at stuff that I thought was pretty.

Matt Payne: 07:53 And then about 2011, I just, there was a lot of stuff I found that I I wanted to do with the camera. Like I started asking myself more questions like, Oh, what if I really want to be able to take pictures of that mountain in the dark with the stars over it, but I can't do that with this camera. And so I just started reading more. And then, you know, you just went, I just went into the white, the white rabbit hole of like, but never, yeah, like reading reviews and watching YouTube videos. And literally I bought my first DSLR 2011. It was a Nikon D 7,000. I checked out every book at the library that I could find about photography and completely self-taught and then just started taking my camera out more and more and just trying different stuff.

Matt Payne: 08:48 And then, I dunno, probably shortly, like maybe six or seven months into that and it must have just really struck or stuck because I bought a full frame camera and just started, you know, investing a lot more money and better lenses and, and people started buying my photos. And so then I was like, wow, maybe I should build a website about this, you know, so it just, it just escalated from there. And you know, so now it's now I have this constant struggle of balancing my passion for climbing mountains and getting to the tops of mountains and taking pictures. So it's like, it's really hard to do both of those things really well. Cause you're so focused on the exercise aspect and getting to the top. So like an example, not this past weekend, but the weekend before I backpacked up to this high mountain Lake, which was about a four mile hike in, I set up my camp and then while I was cooking dinner, I took my camera down to the Lake shot sunset, set my camera up on a TimeLapse photograph to proceed, meteor shower for like six hours, slept in my tent, got up, got my camera and then I climbed the mountain in the dark that I needed to climb and it shot sunrise from the top of the mountain.

Matt Payne: 10:12 Yeah. So I like, you know, like two or three hours of sleep maybe. And I got to shoot sunrise Perseids and the sun sunset, so. Wow. Yeah. So that's kind of, I don't know, that's kinda my photography journey in a nutshell. I guess.

Raymond: 10:26 That was great. That's cool that it's like obviously a, I think a lot of people use just photography, like as their hobby. Like it's their passion right when they first find it. And I think that it's really interesting that like, you obviously your whole life, you've, you've been hiking, you've been outdoors and that has been like your, your lifelong hobby and a passion and then you found photography to, to kind of capture that feeling for you that you can share with others. I think that's really cool. And I love you. I want to say that you had a relatively quick progression even though like the first 10 years were just like, not much of a progression, but like once you decided to go all in, you really went all in. Yeah. Going from I'm guessing the point and shoot camera for a long time with the macro mode and stuff and then upgrading [inaudible] and then the full frame and then the lenses tripods of sure.

Raymond: 11:15 And then it just went up from there and then with a website. And then you just really like fell head over heels for that. That's great. I kind of want to know a little bit more about the education side of it. Because you talked about, you said it's yourself taught, you went to the library, you checked out as many books as humanly possible. I want to know where you got most of your inspiration from. Was it being out there on the mountain thinking, gosh, I wish that I could take a photo of this. I just don't know how. Or was it seeing an example in a book and thinking, ah, this is what I need to do now? How do I do it?

Matt Payne: 11:50 Yeah. You know, I think it's probably a combination of three, so definitely one being being out there with my camera and trying to use it to capture certain scenes and then looking at the back of the camera and going like, well that's not, that's not what I wanted. You know, like, how do I, like, you know, you had this kind of vision in your mind, like, I want it to look like this. And then you press the shutter and it doesn't look like that. And then you're trying to figure out why. Well, it's like, Oh, I'm in auto and like I need to have more control of my camera. And so it started kind of there like just being super curious about how to achieve the results that I had in my mind. And then kinda the same thing like with the books.

Matt Payne: 12:35 Like I just read a ton of books and like got a lot of ideas on different types of things to shoot, like not just outdoors but like portraits and, and like using your flash to do some creative stuff. And I just, I just tried it all. You know, I just experimented constantly. And I remember I would spend like a couple hours a night, like after I got my DSLR, just like I'd go in a dark room and my house turned out all the lights and I'd get like a, like a one of those laser pens. Oh yeah. And I'd like right on the wall and stuff, like two long exposures and just silly stuff like that just to like have a better understanding of settings and things like that. So it was just experimentation and trying, trying new stuff to see what I could make. And then lastly I started following some local photographers in Colorado that were kind of traveling to similar locations that I was, that had been taking photos for much longer than me.

Matt Payne: 13:32 One of them was my, he's now my really good friend Kane Engelberg. I was super inspired by a lot of his photos and like wanting to know about like, Oh, like where did you hike to take that? And like, how did you, like, how do you compose that stuff? And you know, I just got more and more and more into it. Started following more and more photographers that I really admired and respected their work. I actually, it was probably one of the best things I ever did, but back in 2010, I wrote an article on my mountaineering website where I I highlighted my 20 favorite photographer landscape photographers in Colorado. And I did like a little write up for each person and gave like samples of their photos and links to their websites. And why I liked their photos and why I included them in my list.

Matt Payne: 14:22 And like those people got so much like if you Google best color or landscape photographers, my website will pop up. I guarantee number one result and they'll still, those people get tons and tons of reasons and it wasn't my intention, it just happened that way. But those people like became friends of mine because I was referring so much web traffic to them. Wow. And now I go out and shoot with those people and stuff like that and we're friends and so yeah, it's just, I think it's cool to just be curious and be inspired and then don't be afraid to ask people lots and lots of questions, but come at it from like a, just a really curious perspective, you know?

Raymond: 14:59 Sure. Yeah. I think that's great that, that you have these questions and that curiosity about like, well, just that, that, that practice of going into a dark room and like writing on the wall with that, with a laser pen is like, Oh, of course. That makes sense. You know, long exposures, of course. That's how you're going to figure it out. But I don't know if I would have thought about that in the time. And I don't know if many listeners would think about that as well. And I hope that somebody listening right now is about to lock themselves in a room and turn off all the lights so that they can practice something like that because that is a great, a great idea. When you were trying out all these new techniques and you're in, you're talking to people about photography now, cause you're broadening your horizons was there anything that you learned or was there any moment for you that was like this, like a light, like a light bulb and you thought, Oh, like suddenly all of this is starting to come together now and photography makes more sense.

Matt Payne: 15:56 Oh man. You know, honestly one of my early kind of things that I got into big time was night photography and photographing the Milky way. And so I started following a lot of photographers back then, which was like 2011 so it was super new, like not many people were, were doing that back then and cameras were just starting to be able to do that. And so I think kind of an aha moment for me was like figuring out how to shoot my camera in manual and adjust my settings correctly and seeing the results on the back of the LCD screen of the Milky way core on, on your camera, like for the first time, way better than your eyes naturalized can see. So for me that was an aha moment of like, okay, you can do this.

Matt Payne: 16:56 Like it's just a matter of mastering. Like the really, it's just these three settings honestly. And knowing how they interrelate with each other. And once I realized that, I feel like the sky's the limit cause you can start experimenting with any of those settings and playing with them to kind of get different results and combining different settings and things like that. So I guess for me it was like right after I got my first DSLR and really just started fully understanding how to shoot in manual. Like that just, it opens so many doors for me. Like it's, you know, when you're shooting in an auto, like you can, your cameras can take some amazing photos and audio. But once you, once you go with a manual there's just so much more you can do.

Raymond: 17:43 Yeah. It's really hard to go back once you see that. I mean, literally like you said, the three settings of, of ISO, aperture, shutter speed there, create every single photo ever taken. Yeah. Right. So it's actually, if you figure out how to, how to manipulate any one of those three, you can, you can take any, any photo, which is great. What are some signs that you see of an amateur landscape photographer? Is there, is there anything that if you see a photo, you can immediately pointed out and be like, Ugh, this guy's just starting out.

Matt Payne: 18:15 Well, I mean, we've all been there, right? So it's, and I, and I, I mean honestly I still take photos that look that way. So, but I mean I think some of it has to do with composition. I mean it's, I think composition is probably one of the hardest things to learn as a photographer, especially a landscape photographer because when you're in the wild, there's so many elements that you can include or not include. And so for me, like the first thing that kind of immediately strikes me is composition and, and just thing like when you have like two way too much sky or way too much foreground and they don't come together. Like to me that's a pretty good sign. Definitely like, and this is maybe just a personal preference, but like, you know, when the skies is totally blown out, like the highlights are completely blown out, you know, that they probably shot it in auto and they didn't. IX, it's, you know, in landscape photography we call it exposed to the right, you know, ETTR but you know, basically that's has to do with your histogram. But basically just don't blow your highlights out and pull your shadows up in post later. If you shoot in raw. It's, can you drag them a much better result? And I know that's probably a little too technical.

Raymond: 19:27 No, I mean, I think I think well I may, maybe that is a little bit technical, but I understand what you're saying. Obviously we have a tendency to expose for whatever the subject is and if it's a mountain which is going to be gray, it's going to make that blue sky white. So you're saying shoot under exposed or to the right of the histogram. And when you do that, it's much easier to brighten up the shadows and post instead of saving the highlights like in the sky. Exactly. Okay, cool. I just want to make sure that I could, I could put that in a way that hopefully listeners can can follow along with.

Matt Payne: 20:05 Yeah. And I guess the the other thing for me, you know, is you know depth of field. Like, you know, when you're shooting portraits, it drives me crazy when people are shooting portraits in a pretty boring environment. Like maybe it's a, just like the side of the street, but there's nothing interesting behind somebody or it's super busy and noisy, but they use like a, they didn't use a shallow depth of field. So like you can see all that busy-ness. So to me, like that's another sign of like, okay, you need to learn a little bit about aperture and how to control that. That's awesome. Good

Raymond: 20:43 Tip. Also a good tip. Hide as much as you can with, with with that, a lot of the places that you go, like when I look at your photos, it's just like gorgeous locations, especially like coming here from like Indiana or just like corn fields for miles. And it just like, okay, we got enough corn, you know any sort of like geography is, is, is beautiful, right? To us at least. So when I look at your photos, I think like these are gorgeous. I love, I love the shots, but I kind of want to know how much of your photos are how much of your photo is planned out and how much of a photo is, is, is magic, I guess for lack of a better term?

Matt Payne: 21:30 Well, makes sense. It does. So, you know, landscape photography is an exercise and expectation management. And if you, if you go out into the fields with this preconceived notion of the exact shot you're going to get with the exact clouds you want to see you're going to be disappointed probably 85% of the time. And there's, there's, and there's nothing wrong with like studying the weather and like knowing, okay, when the weather pattern looks like this, I know I can go to that location and there's a pretty good chance the clouds are going to look good or whatever. There's nothing wrong with that. I mean, that's honestly like probably the best you can do to maximize your luck. But I don't know. I'd say in the last probably two years of shooting, I've kind of just been more open to finding what's there when I get there and trying to you know, get to know a location, kind of kind of walk around, explore it, see what's there. Again, kind of be curious about what that location has to offer and then shoot stuff. That's interesting. You know, it doesn't necessarily have to be an Epic sunset or an Epic sunrise like that mean obviously those are the moments that you'll always remember. But like I said, if that's all you're going to look for, you're going to be so disappointed as a landscape photographer. So that's the first thing I tell people, you know,

Raymond: 22:55 Let me, let me give you a scenario then. Okay. So you said that you went out two weeks ago to shoot the media shower. You knew that you wanted photos of the meteor shower. So when you were thinking about these photos in your head, how much did, did you, did you say, Oh, I'll just go out and see what happens? Or did you think, you know, it would be great if I went up and got this Lake in the, in the foreground and then I did this. And if it was at this time, these things would happen. How, how much of how much of that happened?

Matt Payne: 23:26 Oh yeah. So yeah, actually a fair amount. So I use an app called photo pills to plan a lot, especially my knife photography stuff. So you know, photo pills is it's got a Google maps overlay. You can kinda, it'll show you exactly where the sunrise and sunset sunset is going to be on the map. It'll you exactly where the Milkyway core is going to be at certain times of the night. So, so I use that to kind of preplan where I think I'm going to point the camera or like where I want to maybe set up for a certain shot. Yeah. Especially if it's a, I'm like, if I want to include the Milky way over a Lake or over a certain mountain or something like that. But like this, this, this particular trip, like it's kind of a last minute decision.

Matt Payne: 24:15 I did take a look at photo pills. I was like, okay, it looks like the Milky way is going to be visible, but it's not going to be like visible over the mountain that I want it to be until like 2:00 AM, which kind of sucks, but Oh well. So I kind of composed my shot so that the Milky way would kind of rotate across the composition from left to right throughout the night. And then I would be able to pick from the best composition out of all the media strikes that would happen through that entire sequence of whatever, six hours or whatever. And then in terms of like any other planning beyond that I mean sometimes you get to a location and you have this preconceived notion of where everything's set up and then you realize like the foreground is really boring or, gosh, that mountain over there is way cooler looking than the mountain. I thought I had in mind. You know, so what did I climb this one? Dang it. Yeah. So you just kind of have to be open to like, I don't know, changing, changing your plans. I think that's okay.

Raymond: 25:19 Yeah. What do you do in that situation? You show up and you're like, Oh, this four grand is boring. The light is not what I was expecting at all. Do you still try to, for lack of a better word, do you try to force something or do you just pack the camera away and just say, well, it didn't turn out like I wanted to today?

Matt Payne: 25:40 Well, I mean, this, this past trip is a good example. So I had found this really cool composition where I had this great scene reflected in a Lake. I actually just put it on Instagram today. But what happened was those when sun, when sunset finally hit, those clouds had moved away and there was nothing there anymore, but there was great clouds over here to the West over a different set of mountains. So what I did is I was like, okay, I think those are going to light up. So I just picked my camera up, walked around about halfway around the Lake, found a different composition and, and then recomposed and shot that scene. That's so I dunno, I, I just, I look for things that, you know, I'm just flexible. I don't know. And it's one of those things you have to, the more you get out in, the more you do it, the faster you can set that stuff up and, and be open to changing, changing your perspective and looking for things. But sometimes it can be kind of a last minute like dash and you're frustrated and you're chasing light that main may or may not materialize. So I don't know. I think, I think it's okay to also, it's also okay to like just stick with what you had in mind and let it, let it ride it out. But I don't know,

Raymond: 26:57 Have you ever been in a situation where you thought, this just isn't going to work? Nothing here is going to work and you ended up just putting the camera in the bag and, and, and enjoyed your time outside.

Matt Payne: 27:09 Oh, many times.

Raymond: 27:11 Good to hear. That's good to hear. I guess that's, that's, that's, that's kinda what I was trying to get out of this is to figure out how you, how you, how you continue to shoot something even, even if it's not going to be there, you know, would you try to do that or but I think that you gave a great answer that I totally understand. You know, as you're going to continue, you're going to gain that experience and if if you're going to have a better idea of, Oh, well actually my, this might work and then go try to grab that. But if not, you're totally cool with just enjoying to be outside.

Matt Payne: 27:46 Yeah, man. I mean, I think if it's the thing, like if you're not, if you're not an outdoor lover first before a landscape photographer, you're going to hate landscape photography because there's so many times that you go out to get a shot and it just isn't there. And that's why I tell people

Raymond: 28:08 Bloody and,

Matt Payne: 28:09 Or like, ah, this one time I, I hiked to the top of this mountain in Oregon to shoot the Perseids or no, it wasn't the Perseids it was the, the Geminids I think, which is in December. And I can't remember which. Anyways, I hiked to the top of this mountain and like fog just rolled in and like, there was nothing to shit like, and it's all, I mean I basically, I mean I could have viewed that as like a waste of like six hours and two hours of driving or I enjoyed being in the fog on a mountain, you know? And I did, it was cool and it was that was fun. But man, if, if I wasn't into the being outside, that would have been really awful.

Raymond: 28:50 Yeah, I can imagine. I can imagine that. I think it's hard for me to, to, to like wrap my head around that concept. Cause as a wedding photographer, it's like, I feel like I have to show up and perform because if I don't and I don't create something interesting I S I still have to, I still have to create something, you know what I mean? So, so I love to hear that perspective from other photographers is to, as to as to how they view photography and if things don't work out what they do for damage control. So, so that's awesome.

Matt Payne: 29:22 Well, and the other, the other thing that I would say about that is you know, it's, it's easy to get discouraged or give up or like, Oh, the shot I wanted isn't there, so I'm just going to put my camera in and hike out or go home. But honestly, that's a good opportunity to maybe like get out a lens that you don't use very often or like try some macro shots on something you found on the ground that looks interesting. I mean, there's so many opportunities to just experiment and like and just get shots that you normally wouldn't have gotten if you just didn't think like, okay, how can I, like maybe I'm gonna use a telephoto and like zoom in on a, on a leaf that's on that tree and see if I can blur out behind it and what would that look like? So I don't know. I think sometimes you just got to make the most of what's, what's actually what, what nature provides for you, you know?

Raymond: 30:11 Yeah. Jeez, that's going in the memorable quotes section of this podcast. Cause that was, that was totally solid advice to just get out something new and, and, and, and see what happens. I love that. On a more personal note on your website, it says that in your about me page, it says that your parents had instilled a strong sense of ethical appreciation for the wilderness in you and that your father had taught you to tread lightly and to preserve the fragile Tundra and ecosystem of the highest places. I love that. Can you tell me or the listeners how we can be more ethical photographers if we want to go out and shoot landscapes?

Matt Payne: 30:57 Yeah, absolutely. So I guess the first thing I would tell people is take, just take a pause. You know, what, what is it about a particular location that, that could be fragile or be damaged or be impacted by your behavior as a photographer, whether that be you know, a whole bunch of flowers or like, you know, in death Valley, people driving all over the mud and stuff like that, like, like or, or even better yet, like, how can you, how can you leave a place better than the way you found it? And I think another thing I like to tell people is you know, the leave no trace principles are really good in terms of educating yourself about like, what is the best way to, for me to conduct myself ethically in the outdoors and and, you know, not, not make an impact on these places that we love, that we want to photograph.

Matt Payne: 32:01 But honestly I think it's a lot of it just has to do with mindfulness. Cause when we're out there as landscape photographers trying to nail that shot, I think sometimes we get really caught up in this mentality of like I have to get the shot or I have to get a shot. I have to get something that's better than what someone else has gotten or and then, and then I think it forces us to behave in ways that maybe aren't so becoming of ourselves in terms of who we are as people and how it reflects upon what we actually think of a place. Cause I know I've personally had moments where I go to a spot and I'm like, Oh, what if I, if I just went over a few more feet over there, but Oh man, there's like, there's a bunch of flowers right there. I like, should I step on those flowers? Like it's, I think if you're just, if you just slow down and think about what your impact is going to be, I think, I think just that moment of, of reflection. I think is critical.

Raymond: 32:57 Cool. That that's great cause cause obviously like you said, you're out there in nature first and then you're, you're, you're taking photos kind of second. You're out there in nature cause you enjoy, you enjoyed being in nature. So who cares how good a photograph is if, if you're no longer being kind to nature.

Matt Payne: 33:18 Right. And I think to take it even a step further I think it begs the question of like, what, what is motivating you to actually take that photograph? Yeah. Right. So what I've found is that if your motivation is purely a selfish and or revolving around monetary gain, I find that when you're in that mentality, you tend to do things as a person. And I think this could really be any person you tend to do things that maybe later you won't be proud of. As a, you know, like reflecting back like, Oh, I guess I, you know, that was kind of silly. Like why did I do that? You know, it's,

Raymond: 33:59 It's like that that that term doing it for the gram doing you do ridiculous things just for Instagram. I read a story of a woman who put herself more than a hundred thousand dollars in debt, like in, in airfare and like fancy clothes and like new stuff just so that she could take pictures of herself in these locations just so that she could post these photos on Instagram. And when she got back, she was like flabbergasted that she was broke. And it was like, what are you talking about? I'm like, Oh my gosh, you know, when you, when you just do it for Instagram, you have in the wrong, the wrong motivation there. And I've, I pick that up from, from that answer. I love that. Yeah, absolutely. What, what, what would you say are some like common myths, misconceptions that people have about being a landscape photographer?

Matt Payne: 34:49 Gosh, common misconceptions. Well, I guess the first misconception I feel like that really should be exposed, and it's a tricky subject, but I would say 99% of the landscape photographs that people view on a daily basis and greatly admire have almost assuredly been altered in some way. And that's where the, the artistry side of landscape photography comes in, in terms of post-processing. And I think there's a vibrant debate happening right now. In fact, I'm going to have two guests on my podcast this weekend to, to kind of tackle this particular issue specifically, but there's kind of a, it's, there's a really interesting fine line between art and pure photography and especially in landscape because like I said, most of the photos you see online that look really good. They've had a lot of work done to them either through accentuating certain color channels and Photoshop or adjusting curves or contrast or adding sharpness or adding blur or a thing called Orton effect or using luminosity masks to adjust shadows and highlights and adding glow to different objects and adding light that maybe wasn't there or what some people are doing now, especially on Instagram, like completely adding elements to a theme that completely aren't even there ever.

Matt Payne: 36:34 Like shooting, shooting North. I had a scene that's pretty boring and then adding the Milky way above it. When, you know, the Milky ways in the South, you know there's a lot of it's, it's just really interesting right now the, the, the line between art and fantasy and art and, and pure purism. It's the, the, the debate is alive and I kind of personally fall kind of in the middle somewhere. But yeah, I'd say for those of you out there, if you looked at it like a Peter lick photo chances are half of that photo is not real.

Raymond: 37:14 Yeah. Well, you know, I think the great thing about like photography is that it's it's like up to you, like whether you like it or not, you know what I mean? Cause I may like photo somebody else may not like a photo and it's the same as being a photographer, but I can see how, how it's like, you know, figuring out if, if what it is that you want to shoot, if you want to go out and shoot this beautiful landscape and you're adding in these, these ridiculous elements, it's no longer that beautiful landscape. It's something completely different. And I think, you know I guess as long as there's some sort of like awareness to like, Hey, look at this piece of art that I created or something like that, then I dunno, maybe I'm just going off like, I'm not like in the world of landscape photography, but I see, I see how there's multiple sides to the story.

Matt Payne: 38:07 I mean, you guys have the same challenges in the portrait world. I mean, you take guys like Jake Olson who like, I mean, he composites scenes. I mean, you can see like in his tutorials, like there's all kinds of crazy stuff that people are doing out there where they'll shoot a scene and then they'll like, like completely change entire elements of the background to a scene that they didn't even shoot the portrait at. So, I mean, it's it's not, it's not uncommon in photography to do that. And, you know, it's all art. I get that. But at the same time it's like I dunno, there's, it's, I struggle with it. I think a lot of us, especially in landscape tires, we really struggle with it because it's like there's something to be said for authenticity and honesty and there's a lot of lack of authenticity, honesty right now with social media.

Matt Payne: 39:03 And especially on Instagram, like I see it every single day. People posting these, these fantastical totally fabricated landscapes. And then like, they go on this huge diatribe and their description about what the experience was like to be there in that moment. And then like, people start asking them questions about it. Like, you know, why is like people that have actually shot that scene before, like they know like that, that's not real sure. Sure. And then they call him out on it and then they deny it and then it turns into this huge flame or, and it's just interesting to me that people, for whatever reason they don't want to just own up the fact that it's an artistic creation. There's nothing real about it. It's not really even photography anymore. It's more of a digital art, which is fine. The end result is probably all that most people care about. But when you start lying about it, like that's when it's like, okay man, like just, just be honest about what you did. Like

Raymond: 40:11 I swear there's four Tetons, I swear, I swear. Right, right, exactly. It's funny. Or like, no, I swear that mountain is really that pointy. No, it's been on the top of it. It's not, that's hilarious. That's hilarious. It all makes sense though. Cause I mean it's, it just kind of up to self expression I suppose, but owning it is, is what's going to be most important. For, for those new, I'm just now getting into landscape photography. You know, somebody who really wants to focus, they want to get out more. What would you say is like like must have gear for getting started in landscape photography?

Matt Payne: 40:57 I mean definitely a good tripod is probably one of the best investments you can make. I see you have one in the background there. If you're just getting into landscape, like don't go out and spend $800 on a new tripod cause that's just nuts. You can pick up a pretty decent, even like used on eBay or like on your local like Facebook marketplace or Craigslist, like pick up like a $150 tripod. It doesn't even have to be a lightweight tripod. I highly recommend that people get an ARCA Swiss, a ball head because it just opens up so much more possibility. You can add either L BRAC a bracket on the bottom of your camera and keep it there. Or you can do what I do and you can add, you know, an L bracket to the camera. So that you can easily switch it between landscape and portrait and you're gonna have to readjust your tripod settings.

Matt Payne: 41:57 That's super fun. But you know, once you kind of get over your first tripod and you're like, okay, this landscape thing is cool and I like it. I'm going to get really into it. I would say that's when you probably want to look into investing in like a super good tripod. Every person I know on earth highly recommends really right stuff. I personally don't own a really right stuff. Tripod. I have a Faisel tripod. It's it's a, it's, it's a carbon fiber. It's really lightweight. The whole tripod weighs two pounds, but I do a lot of, I do, I do a lot of backpacking and hiking. So, so for me, like the weight is critical. You don't want to carry around this 12 pound beast right here. I mean, no, I used to do, I used Christ.

Matt Payne: 42:48 I used to carry around like a seven pound gets a tripod and I'm like, this is stupid. I'm climbing to the tops of these 14,000 foot peaks with a eight pound tripod. And the other thing, I can't stress this enough, but you know, people are constantly obsessed about the newest and best camera. But honestly like cameras at pretty much any camera from the major brands that's been made in the last probably six years can, can do pretty much almost anything you want it to. It mean you may not be able to blow it up like 40 by 60 at print. But you can pretty much do most of what you want to do as a beginner landscaper with a pretty inexpensive camera, but you can't with an inexpensive piece of glass. So I really recommend people invest in good lenses.

Matt Payne: 43:44 I really recommend people get a nifty 50 you know, like a nice 50 millimeter prime lens you know, like an [inaudible] or an [inaudible]. It opens up a whole world of, of creative possibilities when you can stop down. So you know, or, or I guess not stop down, but when you can open your aperture up so wide, where you can take in so much more light, you can narrow your depth of field so much, you can just do a lot more experimentation and learn a lot more rapidly with that kind of a lens. So I highly recommend that. And the thing with lenses is that they almost always retain their resale value. So if you want to, you know, if you get tired of a lens and you want to sell it later, the chances of you losing much resale value is pretty low. They retain their value really good if you take good care of them. So cameras do not,

Raymond: 44:39 Right? Yeah. Two, two or three years later, it's a, it does not hold its value as well. Have you ever had a lens that you were like so excited to have and then you got it and you just never used it?

Matt Payne: 44:53 Never. Are you kidding me? Happens all the time, dude. I got like, gosh. Let's see. I had a one Oh five macro lens that I thought I would use all the time. I think I used it twice in two years. It just wasn't my thing. Like I just didn't get into it. That's an example of that. I had a really heavy 300 millimeter telephoto F four telephoto lens and again, like I think I used it maybe four times. Like it just, I mean it was a really great lens. I just, it was, it's, you know, it's a 300 prime, like it's pretty limiting. Like you're going to use a 70 to 200 way more than that probably. So yeah, all the time, dude.

Raymond: 45:48 Yeah, dude, I get it. I get it. When I, for me it's always like with zooms I'm always like, Oh man, but if I get a zoom, like it'll make my life easier and then I get it. And I either find that I just become like really lazy, like I'm talking about here in the corner and just zoom in all the time. Or it just like, I just shoot everything like super wide. And I make terrible decisions for focal length. So then I just always end up selling it and then like six months later I think, well, yeah, but I learned from my mistakes last time. Maybe this time it'll, it'll be different. So I totally get it. I totally get it. I totally get them. Matt, you have, you have, you have been wonderful today. You have shared so much and I'm so happy to have had you on the podcast for, for those listening to you right now who are interested in learning more about landscape photography or more of what you do, where can the listeners find you online?

Matt Payne: 46:43 The easiest way is probably my website, which is Matt Payne, photography.com. P a Y N E is how you spell my last name. And then obviously, you know, Instagram have my, my podcast, which is also linked in my website, it's called f-stop, collaborate. And listen, you can find it in iTunes or Stitcher or however you find your podcasts these days. And yeah, pretty much any social media, Facebook, it's all, it's pretty easy to find me. Raymond: 47:15 Perfect. Perfect. Well Matt, again, man, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate everything that you shared and I can't wait to see what you got going on in the future, man. Matt Payne: 47:24 Hey, my pleasure. Thanks for having me and keep up the good work with your podcast.

Raymond: 47:28 I don't thank you. I, I truly hope that you enjoyed that interview with Matt because I know, I know that I did. Matt, if you're listening, man, I really appreciate you coming on the podcast and sharing everything that you did truly. And I know that the listeners enjoyed your interview as well. So if you want to hear, if you're listening right now and you want to hear more from Matt or check out his podcast, you can find it in iTunes or anywhere else like he mentioned in the podcast. Just just search for F stop, collaborate and listen, which I think is a great title. Okay, so now it is time for a brand new review of the podcast. It is review Monday, I guess it's the review segment. So this week's five-star iTunes review came from Melissa Nicole and she says, hold on.

Raymond: 48:22 Oh, there's actually more. Whoa, okay. Oh, this is a long one. Okay. so a friend recently turned me onto this podcast. I kinda thought it was something that only nerds did. Totally joking. Anyways, I'm a third shift nurse working surgical services. So unless there's a middle of the night surgery, we have a lot of downtime. I listened to the podcast a while getting my steps in, going laps around the hospital, the bonus episodes this past Monday. So this was a few weeks ago. Increasing your creativity with free shooting particularly resonated with me. I like to drive around in the country, blasting Spotify or podcasts, looking for inspiration and often don't have to look too far. The podcast has helped me have the confidence to finally, after two years go manual. That is so cool, Melissa. There is no going back now and I couldn't be more excited. Also on top of loving the podcast itself, it's opened up a world to a plethora of new tools and resources for me.

Raymond: 49:22 And when you talked about how you never wanted to be a wedding photographer, but then one day you just fell in love with it. That's how I feel about taking pictures of people, especially children. I love surprising myself with expressions. The wonder, the joy, the love, whatever feeling it may be that I can catch in someone's face and body language. I digress. But seriously, everyone listened to this podcast, people, Melissa, man, I can't, jeez, I can't thank you enough for that review that truly means so much to me. I'm so happy that you are getting so much value out of the podcast, obviously, and that, that it's resonating with you so much. That is something that I truly try to make each podcast episode have some information in there that, that people are gonna pick up on maybe a lesson that I learned too late or something that just doesn't, doesn't get taught enough.

Raymond: 50:15 And I'm glad that you picked up on that. So most. Again, thank you so much. If you're listening and you haven't left the podcast a review, I have one request from you. If you listen to this podcast and enjoyed it at all, if was any piece of little information that you picked up on that you truly enjoy, if you could just take 30 seconds of your time and give the podcast an honest review in iTunes or whatever podcast player you were listening to, it would truly mean the world to me, so thank you. Thank you so much. Okay, that is it for today's interview. Until until next week, I want you to go out. I want you to try something new. I want you to shoot something fun and most of all, I want you to be safe because I love you all and that's it. I will see you next week.

Outro: 51:03 Thank you for listening to today's episode of the beginner photography podcast. Be sure to join the conversations on Facebook and Instagram. If you want any links or resources we talked about in today's episode, check out the show notes. Let's get on photography, podcast.com see you again next week.