This week I chat with Oklahoma city family photographer Natalie Greenroyd who shares her tips on getting started with family and children photography and some mistakes to avoid when you are fresh in photography. 

In This Episode You'll Learn:

• How Natalie got into photography

• The main source of Natalies Photography education

• What Natalie would say is the job description of a family photographer

• The story of how Natalie got her first client and how it went

• Common mistakes Natalie sees amateur photographers making

• How Natalie gets kids to be open and comfortable around her and her camera

• Natalie's tricks on taking more authentic photos of your family

• Natalie's process when posing families vs capturing them candidly

• An embarrassing moment Natalie had while working

• Where you can find Natalie Online

Resources:

• Oklahoma city family photographer Natalie's Website

• Natalie's Instagram

Did you enjoy this episode? Check out more recent interviews with other great guests!

Full Episode Transcription:

Disclaimer: The transcript was transcribed electronically by Temi.com and may contain errors that do not reflect accurately what the speaker said. Because of this, please do not quote this automated transcript.

Raymond: 00:00 Hey guys. Raymond here from the beginning photography podcast. And one day I will perfect the most refreshing. Arnold Palmer blonde ale recipe. Oh yeah. Okay. Let's get into today's interview.

Intro: 00:15 Welcome to the beginner photography podcast with Raymond Hatfield, the podcast dedicated to interviewing world-class photographers to ask them the questions you want answered. Whether you want to be the world's best wedding photographer, family photographer, Pat photographer, or you just want to take better photos of your kids growing up. We will get you to start taking better photos today here with you. As always, husband, father, home ruler, LA Dodger fan and award winning Indianapolis wedding photographer, Raven Hatfield.

Raymond: 00:51 Welcome back to this week's interview. I am Raymond Hatfield, your host. However this week I am your, your slightly sick host. I just have like this head congestion and ever since Charlie started kindergarten he has been bringing home all the fun stuff that all the other kids are looking to give him. So I guess I'm trying out some of the crazy germs now, so please bear with me. But I'm, I'm really excited for today's interview for two reasons. Okay. Last week. I talked to [inaudible] a little bit about this, but this week our guest shares so much just about some of the challenges of being a family photographer. And I know that you're gonna pick up some great tips even myself, somebody who doesn't get commissioned to shoot family photos. I know that I picked up some, some great tips that that will help me and I know they're going to help you for sure.

Raymond: 01:42 And number two, number two, this is what I touched on last week. I said that I have a announcement this week. I have a very large announcement. It's huge. You might say. Okay. But I'm going to save that for after the interview. Okay. It is so big that we just don't have time during this pre-show right here that we're just going to get right on into this interview right now and then we're going to save this announcement until after the interview, so be sure to stick around for that. Okay. So right now we're going to get on into this interview with this awesome interview with Natalie Greenroyd right now, today's guest is a family photographer from just outside of Oklahoma city where she loves to capture the details of her family's adventures with two boys, and it has the pleasure of working with families to help them preserve their family's memories for years to come.

Raymond: 02:34 Today's guest is Natalie Greenroyd Natalie, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to this. I, I don't remember exactly how I found you, but I remember that once I found your photos, I knew that I wanted to get you on the podcast because there's something that you're able to capture in each and every photo of young children. That is just something that I aspire to even with my own children. So today I'm really excited to have you here with me and talking with you. But I want to start off from the beginning then. Tell me when the first time you picked up a camera was, tell me about your beginnings in photography.

Natalie Greenro...: 03:14 I mean, aside from like, I had a little pretend camera as a kid and I did take a photography course in college that I don't remember anything from. I didn't learn anything from it. It was one of those where you just like do the assignments and turn them in and like, I didn't retain any of that information. So like a lot of people. The first time I really got interested in photography is when I had my first son, which was about seven, a little over seven years ago. So it was a pretty typical story, you know, you find out you're having a baby and you're like, Oh, I got to get a good camera. I'm one of those fancy ones, you know. So that was it really. And it took me probably about a year or two to really get the hang of things. You know, I was taking a lot of really bad photos in the beginning, like really, really bad for a while, for about a year or two. So but once I decided, okay, this is not working, I just need to figure it out. You know, and then you'd have to be a little bit obsessed with learning everything about it. So once that happened and it, it kinda came pretty quickly, but

Raymond: 04:08 So you mentioned that you went to, that you took a photography class in college when you finally decided to pursue photography that you didn't really retain any of that information. So what was your main source of photography education?

Natalie Greenro...: 04:23 I found some forums online. I don't know if you're familiar with clickin moms at all. I had somebody had posted something about clickin moms on Facebook and I don't really know how I came across it, but I'm like, well, I need to learn something so maybe I'll join that group. So I I joined that community and I found the tutorial section, which has, you know, like hundreds and hundreds of tutorials on everything from learning your camera to shooting creatively. And I remember my son was a little bitty, like a baby. And I remember going through and just starting at the bottom and reading every single tutorial there was on the click and moms forum. So they were really interesting to me and they were super helpful because it was moms talking to other moms in like language that I could understand. So that was really once I found that community, that was really when I started to learn. And once, like that part of the learning happened is when I really got happy with picking up my camera every day. And really there's nothing better than practice. So once I started shooting kind of obsessive Lee, that's when I started to grow to grow a whole lot more.

Raymond: 05:25 Okay. So when you started going through these tutorials obviously I'm sure that in the beginning it was really tough and then as time went on it got easier and easier. But what would you say was the hardest part about learning your camera or photography? From a technical standpoint for you to learn.

Natalie Greenro...: 05:43 Being quick enough was the hardest part for me because like you can look at it on paper or in a book and you can understand, okay, so I need the focus and then I need the shutter speed for this situation. But I need to have my aperture for this. So like you, you kind of know it, but then when you have a one year old that is running in and out of dappled light and running towards you and away from you and trying to change your settings, just being quick was probably the hardest part for me. Because I have two boys that have never stopped moving since the day they entered this world. So I had it just took a lot of practice. Because understanding the technical side of it is really not that hard. It's just putting it into practice, which can kind of be the hard part because it makes sense in your head.

Natalie Greenro...: 06:26 But then when you find yourself in a situation and kids don't always like to like stop right there, hold that really cute pose that you're doing naturally. You know, they won't wait for you to figure out the settings. So you just have to practice a lot to get quick. And that was probably the most frustrating part with me was trying to get all the pieces of the puzzle together for like one, 100th of a second, you know, like getting it all in that short amount of time, getting it all right. So, but it just, it took some practice. And now, you know, now it's just like nothing to think about it. Yeah.

Raymond: 06:57 Yeah. I can totally attest to that. Ever have a like an aha moment. Like when you were shooting behind the camera and you took one photo and looked to the back of the camera and thought, Oh, okay, Oh this, this all makes sense right now.

Natalie Greenro...: 07:10 You know I don't know so much about like when I was learning the technical part of it, I, I don't think so. It all kind of happened gradually. I do specifically, I can pinpoint the year when I started to shoot more creatively than opposed to just like, Oh, there's my kid doing something cute, I'm going to take a picture of it. And that was in 2016 is when I did a three 65 project. And I talk a lot about it because that really is the year that everything changed for me. It went from finding who I am as a creative person as opposed to like taking cute pictures of my kids. So that was kind of the defining year for me. And I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that I was shooting every single day, whether I wanted to or not, you know, whether I felt inspired or not. It really forced me to be creative. So that was kind of like the big moment for me as a photographer, not necessarily so much with the technical part because that really did just happen gradually over time. Pretty steadily.

Raymond: 08:05 You know, you're not the first photographer to come on here and tell me that or talk about the power of doing a 365.

Natalie Greenro...: 08:12 Oh, I know. I know. People are like, I know, we know. Everybody tells us that, but it's so true.

Raymond: 08:17 No, you know what? I think it's, I think it's just so hard for some people to do because obviously it is a, it's a time commitment. I know that I tried one back in, I want to say like 2010 or maybe 2009 and I went a few months and some of those photos that he took though, I still look back and think like, man, those are, those are really good photos, especially coming from like my phone four at the time or whatever it was. But just the amount of work that you have to put in and dedicate to them. Natalie Greenro...: 08:41 Yeah, it is pretty difficult, but it's still worth it. It really is.

Raymond: 08:44 I could see how at the end of it there would be a transformation. So I'm glad to hear that that, that, you know, you're obviously speaking of the power of it and that there's more, more than more people out there who do this. I want to know kind of a, we'll transition a little bit into when did you, when did you start? Okay, let me rephrase that question. Can you tell me about when you first decided to take on clients, can you tell me about your first client? How did you book them? Were you nervous? And did you have a game plan for the session?

Natalie Greenro...: 09:16 Yes. I was nervous, but it was one of my best friends, so it was okay. I had an idea and this was pre 2016, so this was before I really found like my, my creative voice of the photographer. So I had all the technical side of it down and I knew how to take pretty pictures. But I also had the bug really bad, you know, like I love taking photos and that you can only take, I only had one little boy at the time and you can only take so many photos of one little boy. So I just really wanted to explore and I was saying at home you know, I had, I decided to stay home when I had my son, so I was just looking for something to do. So I thought, well, the best way to do it is just practice with some friends.

Natalie Greenro...: 09:55 So I shot some engagement photos for one of my very best friends, which is funny because I don't do engagement photos now. I say far, far away from weddings cause they terrify me. But I did do some photos for her. And actually I did some more engagement photos for another good friend of mine. And then I did some like family sessions for some other friends. So I just practiced first just to see if I liked it and just to see if I was any good at it because I literally had never taken pictures of anything other than my little boy. So I, you know, I just didn't know. I was just curious to see if I could do it. So it started off pretty slowly just taking pictures of friends. And then I was like, well, maybe I can do this, you know, and I decided to offer like a little introductory.

Natalie Greenro...: 10:36 Right. So I was charging not very much, you know, just to kind of put, you know, field test the waters out a little bit and then it just grew from there. I really liked it and people responded well to what I was producing for them. So yeah, that was in probably 2014. Yeah, so it's been about four years. And I'm still taking family clients and I, I don't, it's very part time. I love taking pictures of my boys. That's my passion. But it is fun to have the outlet of I'm taking clients to and getting out of the house for a little bit, you know, since I am home all the time. So

Raymond: 11:10 I'm right there with ya, the two kids here. It is nice sometimes IFC sheet, a lot of weddings and engagements and when I have an engagement session, it's just nice to get outside, go somewhere fun and spend some time with hopefully, hopefully some fun people. So right there with you. Yeah. In your words, what would you say is the, is the job description of a family photographer?

Natalie Greenro...: 11:34 As a family photographer? I mean I can, I'm trying to think of something that's not cheesy and cliche. I'm just preserving memories really. I, I do give my clients the, like everybody's smile, you know, like I do a few of those, but my favorite photos that I take for clients are the in between moments, you know, where it's a connections, you're capturing those connections and maybe the, they're running to a new spot where we're going to take photos. I never stopped taking photos because those, I, I like to give the clients the traditional photos that I know they want to hang on their mantle at home. But then I also give them the ones that I love the most too. I have a one that I took for a client I guess it was earlier this year and it was one of my favorite photos ever for our client.

Natalie Greenro...: 12:20 It was a little girl and she had on a pink dress and she was hiding behind this big Bush. And I could see like the bottom half of her, but the top half of her was just like flowers and trees and leaves. But so I could just see the bottom half of her. And I was like, this is so funny because she was standing where she was supposed to say it, but she didn't want me to see her. So I felt like there was a story there and it's just really pretty the way her dress and the flowers. And so I was taking pictures and of course her mom was like come out where she can see her say like, find a balance between what I know the client wants and what I like too because I feel like they are hiring me. Partly for what I find special about photos. So I just try to find the balance there between what I know they want and what I liked in photography as well.

Raymond: 13:03 Sure. That can be a difficult balance at times because there's that that phrase only only show what you want to shoot. Right. It's like if you, you know, if you go to these sessions and every photo was like Kimra, where, and they're staring and they have to put on this cheesy smile, but you take like one really good, like candid photo and that's all that you show on your website. Even eventually you're going to get more and more families or couples who are going to come to you just for that, a candid, candid feeling. So I like that. I like, I like that but still giving them that, that good variety. Let them hang with whatever they want on their wall. And I know grandparents really love those. [inaudible]

Natalie Greenro...: 13:42 They don't understand the other ones. They're like, it's her head supposed to be chopped off. You know, they don't, so you have to have a little bit of everything in there.

Raymond: 13:49 That's hilarious. I know that, you know, obviously being a part of like clicking mom's forum and seeing photographs from other photographers especially when it comes to like family photos obviously being like a connoisseur of, of, of preserving family moments and looking at other people's family moments. Are there, do you have any telltale signs of a photo taken by an amateur family and photographer.

Natalie Greenro...: 14:21 Okay. So you cut out like the one part of the question here. Are there any telltale signs of yeah, so like the ones that you would see where you're like, maybe they missed the Mark, is that kinda what you're saying? Like what are the signs looking at those photos? Like what kind of signs are there for those?

Raymond: 14:41 Yeah, I guess like what sorts of things could could the listeners implement now so that they make sure that they don't do

Natalie Greenro...: 14:48 Okay. So okay. I think I have

Raymond: 14:52 An answer if I can think of a way to phrase it. So knowing the technical side of photography is super important. You know, the rule of thirds and exposure and you know, focus and all that stuff that is super important. You have to know it. But with family photography you have to find a way to have your creative side push those boundaries a little bit and make it look intentional. So I think that's the key. There are a lot of times I'll look at photos whether you know, on Facebook or informs or whatever, family photos where I'm like, Oh, the crooked horizon, you know, like, and it doesn't look like it was intention intentionally crooked or that that focus is missed. But it doesn't look intentional because I love a good missed focus photo as long as it looks intentional.

Raymond: 15:37 So I think to make those things artistic things look intentional. And even with exposure, I like underexposed photos a lot of the times, but it has to look intentional. It has to match the mood of the photo. It has to be kind of a moody photo with the emotion and everything to match the underexposed feel of it. So I think that might be one of the things because the technical side is important. So cause you can see a photo that's either overexposed or misfocused and it's bad, but you can also have those wrong things in a photo and it looks good, but it's just the intent behind it. Was it intentional or was it not intentional? Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. So I think as somebody who like, you know, I can think of examples in my head of exactly what you're talking about. It makes sense to me, but I, I feel like maybe the listener might be a little confused. Do you have any, and I know that you talked about like missed focus and stuff, but do you have any tips on how to make those quote unquote mistakes? Look intentional.

Natalie Greenro...: 16:38 They have to be intentional. You have to be intentional. Yeah. They have to be intentional. I mean, so I don't know if that's too simple, but no, I think that's perfectly simple. Yeah. Like if you don't have a creative, an idea for a photo, then it just needs to be a properly exposed in focus photo. But if you're feeling the mood, and I'll even think like, Oh, this is going to look really good underexposed, or I'll have like my lens baby on, which I don't know if your listeners are aware of those, but there you get some really nice, cool blur and part of your images. I'm if I'm shooting with something like that and I'm like, okay, focus is not that important to me right now. So I'm going to be okay with this image being a little bit out of focus.

Natalie Greenro...: 17:16 But if my camera just missed focus on accident, I'm not going to, and this is not true all the time because sometimes I'll have an accidental missed focus image and I love it, but typically I need for that to be intentional. If I just accidentally missed focus at a client session that's going to be a tosser. It needs, it just needs to be intentional. So you have to have that idea in your head. You can't just have an entire gallery of like mistakes and be like, Oh yeah, but it's artistic. You know what I mean? You actually have to have the intent behind it.

Raymond: 17:46 Yeah. Yeah. Creative license, right? Yeah. You can claim anything that you,

Natalie Greenro...: 17:50 Exactly.

Raymond: 17:52 Being a part of like a forums like clickin moms, there's a lot of educators in those, in those types of forums. And as somebody who went through that process to learn photography. Looking back, can you think of any common bad information you hear being taught to new photographers?

Speaker 4: 18:16 Mmm.

Natalie Greenro...: 18:18 I, I dunno, I feel like I'm kind of harping on the same thing here. But for people that are afraid to break the rules, so like we talked about, it's important to learn them, but there are people that are too much of a stickler for the rules. So and I think in the beginning you do get really scared cause you think like rule of thirds, you know, like, and so you're framing everything with the rule of thirds because you were told to so you need to know those things. But I love a good sinner composition. You know, I like, I don't mind the hand shop here and there if it matches the mood of the photo. So I'm bad advice for me is follow the rules cause you don't always have to follow the rules. Oh it's something else.

Natalie Greenro...: 18:57 If you read somewhere that you have to shoot a certain way, that's about advice for me. Like you have to shoot in manual. If you don't shoot in manual, you're not a good photographer or you have to shoot in Kelvin white balance Calvin or you're not a good photographer. You don't know what you're doing. If you ever hear anybody saying that, no, I didn't yell white balance auto all the way right here. But yeah, find a way that works for you to shoot. And as long as you're producing images that you love you're good. If you can produce all the images that you love in, you know, aperture priority, then pick for you, you know I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that your photos are not as good because you didn't shoot them in manual. That being said, I do think there is a lot of important reasons to learn manual of course, but you don't always have to shoot in manual.

Natalie Greenro...: 19:45 I I know how to shoot manual and I do a lot, but I like to shoot in manual with auto ISO so that using my shutter speed and me choosing my aperture, but then my camera is choosing my ISO for me. And I do that a lot with my kids because they are just all over the place and shadows and harsh sun. And then we run inside for a minute and we run back outside. So I'm changing my shutter speed in my aperture as I'm going, but I'm not worrying about my ISO and my camera does a really good job for me doing that. I don't know about all models if they all are, they work as well doing that, but I'm not going to let someone tell me because I didn't choose my ISO on my very own, you know, that I'm not as good as somebody else. So as long as you're producing the images that you love, like shoot the way that's comfortable for you.

Raymond: 20:28 That, that's really interesting. When I had Ryan Brent ISER on the podcast very predominant wedding photographer, I asked 'em like, what are some simple things to get? Like what's the next step after you like learn your camera, you'll learn manual, like what's the next step? And he really challenged me on that and he said, who says that you have to learn manual first? Like if you're working with people, maybe learning how to interact with those people and get the reactions that you want is more important than learning manual. And I thought, what have I been doing this whole time?

Natalie Greenro...: 21:00 Right, right. Nobody needs to know manual anymore.

Raymond: 21:03 I was like, that's so smart. That's so smart. And it's like, yeah, it's so important. And now I know, I'll just mirror kind of what you said there about like shooting with kids and not always being in manual. For me, all of my like wedding work, I shoot all that manual because kind of image quality is like the most important thing when it comes to weddings. But when I'm shooting like my family, I never take my camera out of like aperture priority because it's like, you know, if, if I just don't see the need to make every photo technically perfect, as long as you capture that great moment and it allows you to be more aware in the situation or present, then, then that's all that a photo really matters for it. Right. So yeah. Great. Great information there for someone who was like, Oh, let me think about this for a second.

Raymond: 21:46 I think the Genea of that question. Great job. Great job. So I mentioned that I like work a lot or not work a lot, but I photograph like my kids a lot. I think every parent does, whether it's their phone or their, you know professional camera, I guess quote unquote their fancy camera. And I can, I can work with my kids very well, very well. Cause they're my kids. I understand them, I know who they are. I can get them to laugh at certain funny jokes. But when it comes time to working with other people's kids, it's just like the worst, right? Like blank stares. Like what did we, what are we doing here? Like with this person. So when working with families and other people's kids who you don't know, how do you get them to to loosen up so that you can truly capture their personalities?

Natalie Greenro...: 22:34 Yeah, that's a good question because I actually just shot some photos for a really good friend of mine. She actually just needed some kind of headshot type photos of her kids, not headshots but portraits of her kids for an idea. She had to put some photos on a wall in her house and so they just came. I have some like backdrop paper. I shoot school portraits for some like small mother's day out type school. So I have this set up for that. So I set it up in my garage because garage lights really pretty in case anybody doesn't know, go shoots and stuff in your garage. Cause it's really pretty. But I set it up in my garage and I know this family really well and I see them regularly, but they have one little girl who just is like, Oh, you mean you're going to tell me to do something and expect me to do it?

Natalie Greenro...: 23:13 And it's so funny because it's so typically before I go into what I did there because it's really funny. Typically what I do with kids is you just have to talk to him like, like you're talking to a kid as opposed to like you're talking to a client. So I will play with them. I get down on their level, I let them like take pictures with my camera, I let them touch the button. So you have to kind of let them get comfortable with you first. And then I never tell them to smile. I never do. It's never the kind of smile that I want anyway. So I try to be funny. I'm not really that funny of a person, but kids think I'm funny cause I can do some pretty silly things. It doesn't take much to get a kid to laugh if you're willing to be silly.

Natalie Greenro...: 23:54 So I, for a little bitty kids, one of the easiest things that I can do, and it works for sometimes for like older kids too. I play peekaboo with my camera, so I'll hold my camera in front of my face and then like, I'll pick out real quick and then I'll hide again and then we'll begin. You know, we'll go up and down and that works like nine times out of the 10, nine times out of 10. It really does. It's really simple. And then of course they're looking for me and when I go back here, I'm taking a picture. So then I'll go over here and then I'll take another picture. So I do peekaboo a lot with a little ones. But really every kid is different. So it just depends. Some of them need more time, some of them are ready to go right off the bat.

Natalie Greenro...: 24:27 But this little girl that we had the other day, my really good friend's daughter, we were in my garage and nothing was working. Nothing. We even stopped. And I'm like, well, let's stop taking pictures. Let's go walk around in the front yard. And we were looking for frogs and she was okay. We went back and she's still, I mean it was like nothing was gonna work. So I've like stooped to any level to get a good photo. So I went and I got like this big tub at M and M and you know, I said I like sugar, so it was an okay thing for me to do cause I was happy I had M and, but I was literally like throwing handful of M&Ms up in the air and catching them in my mouth. And she thought it was so funny. She didn't want to laugh, but it was funny.

Natalie Greenro...: 25:02 I mean I was throwing handfuls of M&M in the air and like trying to catch them all in my mouth and like in between doing that, as she's laughing, I'm taking pictures. So really I will like stoop to any level to get a kid to laugh. But just honestly like just be silly, be friendly, be silly. Especially for the little ones, you know, it eventually it'll come around. If you got to find the one thing that's gonna make them laugh. And that's really, cause you can't try and talk them out of their mood and you're like, it's only going to take a minute and just give me one smile. Like that's just not going to work. You just have to find something to make him happy even for like 10 seconds. And it really was like, she was happy for about 10 seconds and I got some really cute photos of her and then she was done. But it's okay. You know, we got what we needed so the mom was right. My dog took care of that. Okay.

Raymond: 25:51 So you kinda, you kind of talked earlier about like getting the, getting the, okay. Everybody, like let's smile and say cheese for a photo or two before giving more of those candid moments in between shots. But you talked there about like when working with kids, really trying to just like make them laugh and have a good time. Because once you kind of forced them into a situation, it's no longer fun for them. So when it comes to working with families and kids, obviously some people love to pose, some people don't do any posing and then some people are like a mix of the two. What's, what's kind of your, your process when you show up to, to a session?

Natalie Greenro...: 26:30 Yeah, I'm pretty minimal posing. My posing is more of like y'all see here, like I've kind of showed them the spot where I want them to stay in, especially for the fame. And I only take a few full family photos. Everybody, you know, I take a few of those. And then all the other ones are like the kids together and then the mom with the kids and the dab of kids. But for the big family photo, I have them stand somewhere and then I'm like, you have to get closer, you have to get closer. And that's like the extent of my posing. Cause then they're all smushed together and then they start laughing and then they're happy. So that's kind of like my, other than that, like I really don't do any formal posing with them. I mean, I kind of give them an idea of how I want them to be.

Natalie Greenro...: 27:09 Like give mom a big hug, you know, I'll do stuff like that. So, but I feel like any, anything more than that, it just gets a little too unnatural. So I give them ideas of what, what I want them to do and then I try to make them laugh or feel silly because when they're laughing or feeling silly, that's when you get like the genuine smiles and like the genuine movements and things like that. So I mean I definitely do pose a little bit cause otherwise they would just stand there and like not do anything. But I, it's more of a directing, you know, I kinda tell them where I want them to stand. And then like I said, I just tell him to get super close you know, and then just go from there.

Raymond: 27:43 Do you have any like GoTo poses I guess, like like sitting, standing. Like what, can you kind of walk me through exactly what you were doing?

Natalie Greenro...: 27:52 Yeah. Well it really, it depends. It depends on where I'm shooting. When I shoot with clients, I have like three or four locations around here that I like to go. So some of the places have good spots for people to sit, which is nice cause like the rocks that are kinda layered. So we'll have some people sit up top and like little kids, little kids in laps. I like that one. And honestly like even not big kids, but you know, I have a seven year old. I wouldn't be afraid to have him sit in my lap or my husband's lap for a photo even though it might feel a little weird. Like he's seven, he doesn't normally sit in my lap. But if it's a closer up photo of your whole family, all it's going to look like or your faces really close together, you know, and you have that element of, of touch with arms around each other and things like that.

Natalie Greenro...: 28:35 So, I mean, I want to say I don't really have any go-to poses. I just kind of look at my location wherever I am, because it might be a place where all they can do is stand and if they're standing I just tell them to get cause really, and I feel like photographers here say this and they hear this all the time, but like you need to be closer. Like it needs to feel weird. You're so close. You're like, look, we have all this space and why are you telling us to like, I'm like, I know it feels weird, but it's gonna look really good. So that's something I, I say probably almost at every session I'm like, I know it looks weird and it feels weird, but get closer, get closer, get closer. And by that point they're kind of laughing a little bit. So that's kind of, I mean, if there's any GoTo pose, it would be that does everybody squishing together as close as possible? Yeah.

Raymond: 29:19 I love that. I'll, I'll tell my couples like, I know this feels weird, but that's good. The weirder this feels.

Natalie Greenro...: 29:25 Yeah, I know. It's so true. It really is. So it feels weird. I know, I'm sorry. Awkward. And especially I've done a couple of engagement sessions, but especially those like when I, cause you there is a long, well for me there was, but there was a lot more posing like with just couple because with kids I feel like they don't handle the posing very well anyway, you know, cause they don't really understand what you mean. So you just have to have to kind of get them in their natural state. But with couples, yeah, there's a lot more posing and it can like touch noses, you know, like, I know that seems weird, but trust me, you know? So yeah, there's a lot more of that when you don't have kids involved. Raymond: 30:00 Yeah. That's hilarious. So we'll kind of switch back to photographing our families. Okay. There's a lot of listeners who are moms, dads just picked up their first camera and they're finding that maybe they can handle the technical side of photography, but when they're photographing their kids. Do you have any quick tips, quick wins? For them to photograph to take better and more authentic photos of their children.

Natalie Greenro...: 30:29 Yeah. so kind of going back to the three 65 than I did, I'm not gonna say you have to do a three 65 to be good at taking pictures of your kids cause you don't know. But I will say even if you don't shoot every day, shooting a lot, shooting consistently shooting the same thing over and over and over is going to help you so much, see things creatively, because you can only take so many photos of your son and swinging on your swing, sec swing set in the backyard. And once you do it so many times, you're like, I haven't got to figure out a new way to shoot this. So that's when you start to fill that challenge for yourself to see something that you've shot, you know, a hundred times. And I've shot it this way, I've shot it this way, I've taught it this way.

Natalie Greenro...: 31:09 Have I laid on my, you know, have I laid on my back underneath the swing and shot that photo yet? So but it's hard to have your brain go there if you're not shooting that a whole lot, if that makes sense. So shoot the every day at home with your kids as much as you can. And, and this is a hard one for people, but like even when you're not inspired to do so, pick up your camera, you know? And because I have so many photos that I treasure of my boys that I shot during my three 65 on days where I was like, I do not want to pick up my camera. I'm so sick of it, but I do it. And then, you know, halfway through I'm really happy with myself that I did and I'm able to, you know, create something that I'm really happy with. But if you wait until you're inspired to pick up your camera, a lot of times it'll, you know, it'll be months, it'll, you know, six months that you feel that inspiration. You're not always gonna feel super inspired, you're just not. And a lot of times the inspiration hits halfway through when I'm shooting. So I wasn't really inspired when I picked up my camera, but then I'm seeing something as I'm shooting that's inspiring to me where I wouldn't have seen that had I just not picked up my camera to begin with.

Raymond: 32:14 Yeah. You know, I don't remember who said it and it was obviously somebody way smarter than me, but I think that, I think that the, the quote was that creativity and inspiration are, are, are learned skills and knowledge.

Natalie Greenro...: 32:27 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Raymond: 32:29 And so I suppose so that, that totally makes sense.

Natalie Greenro...: 32:31 Absolutely. Yeah. You have to, to practice it and work at it for sure. 100%. Yeah.

Raymond: 32:36 Have you ever had a moment, actually, you know what, let me, let me back and ask one more question about the three 65 project. So with most three, most three with most three 65 projects that I've seen there's some sort of like daily theme. Is that what you went for it? And if so, Oh no, this was just like every day you're just going to go out and shoot wherever you felt like. Okay. So how do you put a time limit on that? Cause you said about halfway through you the, the, the gears really started going, is there something that you do for five minutes or like 45 minutes every day?

Natalie Greenro...: 33:10 So this is how I convinced myself I could do a three 65 I said I have zero rules for this three 65 other than I have to take at least one picture a day. It was it, that was my only rule. There was no theme. There was no, I have to edit a photo every day. There was no, I have to post a photo on social media every day. I had to take one picture every single day, which, and so what, what was really nice was on the days when I didn't want to shoot, I was like, I literally could pick up my camera and take a picture of my ceiling fan and that would count. You know, I didn't ever have to do that. But in the back of my head that was there, you know, I really just wanted to take a picture every day. The themes are hard for me because I feel the pressure and maybe my kids were doing something really cute that day and I want to do that instead.

Natalie Greenro...: 33:56 So I didn't want the pressure of having a theme. And I know a lot of people really liked that and it helps them stay on task that way. But for me it just needed to be, take a picture. It doesn't matter. Some days I would take five pictures and some days I'm not joking. I would take like 600 pictures. Like I'm a really bad over shooter, usually really bad. So that's probably the only reason why I'm not doing another three 65 is because my poor computer would die. Like I just don't have the space for all of those photos. Because once I get going, it's hard for me to stop. But yeah, I just had to take a picture every day. It didn't have to be of anything in particular. Like I said, it could be a picture of my ceiling fans and it would count. So

Raymond: 34:38 That's awesome. I like that. That's a lot of thing. I think that's what kept me from continuing on because I would try to keep up with the themes every single day and it just overwhelming just cause what advice would you give to a very smart driven new photographer who's about to set out on their own journey?

Natalie Greenro...: 35:02 Shoot what you love. That's so simple and I'm not the first person to say that, but really shoot what you love and share what you love. So whether it's on Facebook, if you're starting a business and we kind of talked about this, like you share the photos, the type of photo that you want to take for clients. You don't share the ones that you don't like. Because I think a lot of people fall in the trap of sharing the photos that they think, whether it's on Instagram or Facebook, they share the photos that they think other people are gonna like just for the sheer, like amount of likes and followers and things like that. But you have to shoot what love and share what you love even if you know it's maybe not going to be that popular or other people might not get it.

Natalie Greenro...: 35:45 But I think you're going to be so much happier with yourself, even just as like a mom or a dad taking photos or somebody going into business. You have to shoot what you love and you have to share what you love because you're going, like you said earlier, you're going to attract those type of clients and people might not be knocking down your door if it's something that a little bit different, but you're going to attract the right type of people. You know, one or two families at a time, you know, they'll, they'll find you and they'll love what you're producing. So, so patients, it just takes patience and time. Yes, yes.

Raymond: 36:15 Yeah. I love it. Have you ever had like an embarrassing moment at a family session? I know that we talked about like, Oh, you know, doing crazy things or whatever behind the camera, but has there ever been anything embarrassing that that you wish, like, Oh no, I shouldn't have done that.

Natalie Greenro...: 36:32 Yes, there have been. And I feel like maybe I've blocked them from Monday, Marie, because I can't like really recall anything in particular, but I know there have been some this this is kind of funny and it wasn't even really necessarily anything that was my fault, but it was still embarrassing at this. AB done plenty of things that are my fault, you know, I've shown up without memory cards and stuff like that. But I remember I was taking some family photos and my husband was there with me, with my kids. I think maybe we were doing like a kid trade off or something. Like I had the kids, but he had to come pick them up. You know, to take them. So I could shoot my session. So we were at a park, so there was like the switch, the handoff.

Natalie Greenro...: 37:13 So my family had gotten there and they, so it was just photos of the kids. They had just wanted photos of their two little kids and they brought like grandma and grandpa and they brought like balloons and like noisemakers and all this stuff because they wanted to be able to like get their kids to smile. So they had all this like crazy stuff. And so I'm like, Oh no, and you know, I'm, I should have been like, Hey, we don't need all this stuff. Like I'm let them work with me cause all this stuff is kind of distracting. So I was like, well let's just see what we're doing here. So like I get down on the floor and I'm taking photos of these kids and like grandma, grandpa, mom and dad balloons noisemakers like all this crazy stuff. We're in a public park, they're like screaming and jumping and like going crazy behind me.

Natalie Greenro...: 38:00 And I remember my husband was walking to the car with the kids and he turned around and he was like, well, later he said he saw it and he was like, is that what all of your sessions look like? That was crazy. Like it was such a scene and like grandma, grandpa, mom and dad thought that they were doing a good thing, you know, so they, they had good intentions of like, we need smiles here, you know. But my fault was I didn't like Nick's it when I should have, I was like, they're here when they bought balloons, you know, let's just go for it. So I didn't really know how to get a good handle on that situation. And it was,

Natalie Greenro...: 38:38 You know, I'll put it this way, I gave them photos that I was happy with that they were happy with. It was harder. It made it harder for me as opposed to helping me because then the kids like want the balloon, you know, like I had to work a whole lot harder on that session than I would have had. They just liked that you're the kids. And then we went around and played and like I could do my tricks that make them laugh as opposed to like calling attention to ourselves, like with the entire park looking over like what it's cause they were out. I mean they were like screaming and whistling and singing. It, it was, it was a scene. It was a big scene

Raymond: 39:15 So nobody came over and asked for a business card at that session. That's hilarious. Well Natalie, I really appreciate your time coming on the podcast today. You've shared a ton and I know that the listeners are going to get a lot of great information out of everything that you said today. For anybody who's listening, who wants to follow along more with your journey, can you share where they can find you online?

Natalie Greenro...: 39:40 Yeah, I'm, I share mostly on Instagram. My IgE name is just Natalie underscore and G underscore photography. And I yeah, that's pretty much where I share most of my stuff. I, I mainly there I share photos of my boys. But I do also share a little bit of client stuff there. Every now and then and I have a, a Natalie Greenwood photography Facebook page there too, but I'm much more active on Instagram if they, yeah, they want to take up my photos. Raymond: 40:05 Perfect. Well I will be sure to add links to that. And anything else that we talked about? Oh, the lens baby in the in the show notes today as well because I, I've only used the lens maybe once actually, and it was, yeah, well I, I they just now recently started making the lens babies for Fuji cameras, which is what I Oh, really? Yeah.

Natalie Greenro...: 40:26 Yeah. Okay. Well, my main body is the Nikon the six 10, but I have a Fuji [inaudible] love it. I'm still obsessed with it and I pretty much use it like exclusively like with my kids and stuff. But I have lends baby has the trio 2.8. Do you know about it? No, it's three lenses in one. It has this little dial on the front that you twist. It's so cool looking. So you twist it for like the lens baby sweet or you twist it for the lens, baby velvet or you can twist it one more time for the lens. Baby of the T, the twist, the sweet and the velvet. Yeah. and it's so cool. It's so much fun to play. I mean, you get some really clunky images with it, but it's so fun and you can kind of twist in between two of the lenses for like the multiple exposure effect cause you're using so weird. It's really cool though. Yeah, a lot of fun.

Raymond: 41:15 I, I might have to get my hands on something like that to try out something new and creative. But yeah. Last last I heard it was very new for Fuji and I just hadn't, haven't given a shot yet. But now that I hear this glowing review, I'm definitely going to have to check that out. Yeah. Well, Natalie, again, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and I forward to following you along in your journey and seeing some more of these super fun photos. All right. Thanks so much. All right guys. I hope that you enjoyed that interview with Natalie. As much as I did, Natalie was so down to earth and and willing to share so much great information there. I think that my biggest takeaway was of course just, just her great tip of just making kids laugh, you know, to get more authentic reactions rather than stiff posing.

Raymond: 41:59 I know with me and my kids, it's easy to get them to laugh cause I like to tickle them and get close and physical. But with other people's kids it can be a little bit harder and you don't know where that line of a funny and this is just stupid is. And I know that I struggle with that when it comes to working with children. So you know, just, just, it's good to hear her perspective as well. So, so that's it. Now if you're listening now only, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and just sharing everything that you did and being a true and just authentic. I really did appreciate it and I know that the listeners will too. Okay, here we go. So I mentioned at the beginning of this interview that I had a, a large announcement and here it is.

Raymond: 42:45 Okay. I am really, really excited for this and I know that if you enjoy the beginning photography podcasts, like at all there's, this is just awesome new things coming your way. So with the beginning photography podcast, I sometimes ask softball questions. Okay. So that the name of the podcast is the beginner photographer photography podcast. And I asked those softball questions so that beginners can understand what the guests and I are talking about. And I don't go very deep. I don't really do much more than scratch the the surface because of that. Some of the listeners have reached out to me and they've said that they wish that there were just a few more questions geared toward those who have had their cameras for more than a few weeks. And maybe that's you maybe you know I recently took a poll in the beginner photography podcast Facebook group just to get an idea of, of where everybody thought that they were on the scale of of photography knowledge from zero as in, I just got my camera yesterday.

Raymond: 43:52 I have no idea what I'm doing to 10 being that you're confident to shoot and just about and deliver in just about any situation. And out of almost 70 responses, the group average was 3.9. Okay. Some of you, a lot of you, there were fives, there were sixes and this is for those people. Okay. The people who would say that they're more than a four. Okay. So this is, this is me answering that call for you. So starting October 1st okay. There is going to be two versions of this podcast, okay. Of every podcast as when I interview a guest, there will be two versions of each interview. There will be a full version, which is just like what you know and love. Okay. But I will be asking more advanced questions to help you progress your skills and knowledge. And then there will also be an edited version which will be shorter and focused on the absolute beginner.

Raymond: 44:57 Okay. Also I've been thinking about this and I went to school for film, for cinematography and I love producing video content and I want to share, I want to merge my two loves of photography and video together and I want to produce more educational, in-depth photography video content. Okay. I'm talking like full walkthroughs in photography education. I want to take you to a wedding with me. I want to put you on the top of my camera with a GoPro. I want to take you to editing session or not editing engagement sessions with me so that you can hear what I say to my couples. And so that you can see where I shoot, see the surroundings of where I shoot. Cause a lot of times that's not that glamorous. And I want to take you, I want to, I want to take my time and I want to show you how to turn images into edited perfection.

Raymond: 45:53 Okay. I want to take that time to really Polish an image and show you what it takes, okay? I want to teach you why you're not getting sharp photos. I want, you know, or to, to to see how to see light no matter the location, okay? These are the things that I want to teach you, okay? And I want to create videos that are just too valuable to post anywhere else, like, like YouTube, but they're geared to show you the path to becoming a successful photographer, okay? So here's where it gets fun. If you want the full version of the podcast where we talk about more advanced topics to help you stand out, and you want the monthly in depth videos that are seriously just going to be too valuable for YouTube, well then you can sign up right now by simply becoming a patron of the podcast.

Raymond: 46:45 And you can do that by heading over to patrion.com forward slash beginner photography podcast. That is P a, T, R, E O N patrion.com forward slash beginner photography, podcasts, all one word to sign up, okay? Now, if you don't know what Patriana is, it's simply a place where you can support your favorite creators to continue to make more content that you love. Okay, so now you are going to get access to the full, more advanced podcasts and monthly in depth video tutorials. Normally, this is a lot right there. That's a lot of extra content that I'm putting out. Normally this is going to cost $10 per month, right? I think that that's a fair, there's not much else in photography that you can get for just $10 a month, but if you're listening to this right now, I'm sure that you have been with me for a while and I really want to show you my appreciation for you.

Raymond: 47:43 So for the first 25 patrons that are loyal fans of the beginner photography podcast, I'm offering you the monthly price of just $5 per month. As long as you're a patron forever, it can be 10 10 years from now, right? It'll just be $5 a month only for the first 25 patrons. So again, if you're interested, that's patrion.com forward slash beginner photography podcast. So each month you will be getting an additional hour Ooops of podcast questions and I mean like value packed podcast questions. Okay. And more informational in depth, advanced video tutorials geared to push you forward all for just $5 a month. Again, just for the first 25 people. But wait, there's more. I've always wanted to say that. Okay, that's finally my chance. Yeah. When you sign up, you're also gonna get access to some great downloads. Okay. That's another feature that I'm going to be bringing is digital downloads for you.

Raymond: 48:46 Okay? So when you sign up, you will be getting access to great downloads like my popular light room presets, a copy of my model release and wedding contracts that you can use and actually edit as you see fit in your business. And I'm also going to be giving you a copy of my ebook beyond photography basics. Okay. Now total, this is a value right here of just $55 okay? With that book, the presets and the the wedding contracts, that's a $55 value. And you're going to get all of that. That's not even including the, the, the podcast and the monthly in depth video tutorials. You're going to get all that for just $5. I think that's a pretty sweet deal and I really think that you're going to enjoy it too. So one last time, if you are interested in becoming a patron of the podcast, just head over to patrion.com forward slash beginner photography podcast to sign up before it's too late, before all 25 slots are filled up at the $5 price and then it kicks over to the $10 price.

Raymond: 49:51 So if you're driving right now and you are like, Oh geez, I can't write that down, I, I'm not going to remember that. I am going to there, you can just head over to beginner photography, podcast.com and there will be a link on the homepage showing you how and where you can go to become a patron of the podcast. Okay, so that is it. That was my huge announcement and next week I have even more information for you. But again, head over there and sign up, become a patron of the podcast before all 25 spots are filled up and you miss out. Okay? This is just my way of showing you my gratitude and just thanking you for just being a continued a supporter of the podcast. All right? All right. That's it. I'm super excited for that and I'm super excited going forward to, to see what new things come about and to help you out grow a successful photography journey. Okay. That's it for this week. Until next week, I want you guys to get out. I want you guys to shoot. I want you to take more pictures of your family, other people's family, anyone's family. Really, I don't, you know, it doesn't matter. Use the tech tips and tricks that you learned in this week's episode to go out, shoot more, ultimately do what you love but be safe. Okay? You know why? Because I love you all. All right. That is it for this week. I will see you again next week.

Outro: 51:10 Thank you for listening to today's episode of the beginner photography podcast. Be sure to join the conversations on Facebook and Instagram. If you want any links or resources we talked about in today's episode, check out the show notes at beginnerphotographypodcast.com. See you again next week.