Vincent Pugliese is a photographer and business coach with more than 25 years of photography experience with both Sports and Weddings. He has built his business without spending any money on advertising or facebook ads. He shares how he did it with the only marketing strategy you’ll ever need to be successful.

Become A Premium Member to access to more in-depth questions that help move you forward!

In This Episode You'll Learn:

• How Vinny got the opportunity to photograph the Stanley Cup Championship

• What makes building a personal network better than running facebook ads

• Why there is so much push back on in person networking

• The simplest way to so appreciation to someone who has given you value

Premium Members Also Learn:

• How Vinny moved to a new state and booked a high ticket wedding the first day they moved

• How to build relationships with venues

• and a step by step process for who to reach out to and what to say when growing your personal network

Resources:

• Download Vinny’s free audiobook “Freelance to Freedom”

• Vinny’s podcast “Total Life Freedom”

Did you enjoy this episode? Check out more recent interviews with other great guests!

Full Episode Transcription:

Disclaimer: The transcript was transcribed electronically by Temi.com and may contain errors that do not reflect accurately what the speaker said. Because of this, please do not quote this automated transcript.

Raymond: 00:00 Welcome to the beginner photography podcast. Today we're talking about the only marketing strategy you'll ever need and it is easier than you'd ever imagine. So let's get into it.

Intro: 00:12 Welcome to the beginner photography podcast with Raymond Hatfield, the podcast dedicated to helping you grow your photography skills. Raman interviews the world's top photographers in their field to ask questions that will get you taking better photos today. Now with you as always, husband, father, home brewer, LA Dodger fan and Indianapolis wedding photographer Raymond Hatfield. Welcome

Raymond: 00:41 Back to this episode of the beginner photography podcast. As always, I am a Raymond Hatfield and I am so excited to have you here today. If you are listening right now, all that I can say to you is thank you so much and I hope that you learn a ton from this episode. And honestly, if you, if you don't learn a ton from this episode, you're either dead inside or a, you are just the Dalai Lama. So there's going to be a ton in this episode for everybody and I'm super excited. But before we get into that it is now, it is now day 12, since the Dodgers lost the DC to the NATS and now the man sexually swept the cards, which I don't think anybody saw coming, but regardless, they're headed to the world series. And while every day that pain of the loss of the Dodgers against the, the NATS is, is less and less seeing the Nads move up like they have builds this fire inside of me that is just anger and that anger turns to rage, you know, and, and it's where I daydream when I'm behind the wheel of my car, about the whole team coming out onto the field for a game, one of the world series and the first person up that stairs just trips and falls backwards onto the rest of the team causing just some horrific, hilarious snowball of players who have to now forfeit the game.

Raymond: 02:06 Four broken ankles and wrists is that would be the only thing that would you know, avenge the Dodgers lost in my eyes. That would be the only thing that, that, that, that I'd be okay with happening in the world series and have it be a good, a good game. Even if you know, whoever wins the AOL to go to the world series just sweeps in that I still wouldn't be happy about it. I want revenge. So that is neither here nor there. Today I am chatting with a good friend of mine and past guests of the podcast who, whose approach to marketing would, would be considered radical in a world of Facebook ads and SEO. But when done correctly, it will transform not only your photography and your business but your life. Now this is a bold claim to make, but after hearing this episode a, I think that you are going to stand behind it as well.

Raymond: 03:06 So each week I save a portion of the interview that is focused more on the tactics of business just for premium members who want to use their camera to start making money. And now this week, premium members are going to hear how Vinny moved his wedding photography business to a completely new state and booked a wedding the first day after he moved, how to partner with venues and become their go to vendor to refer and a step by step guide to start building a personal network today with ease. Now if you want to hear all these things and trust me, if you want to start making money with your camera, you do want to hear Vinnies lessons, then become a premium member by heading over to beginner photography, podcast.com and click the premium membership button at the top of the page. And that is where on top of getting access to the extended interviews like I just mentioned, you are also, I'm excited about this going to get a special invite to the premium members only Facebook group that we just started last week.

Raymond: 04:12 And so far it has been a massive success. Having a smaller group of people really makes it easier to dive deep into specific problems and it has just been a joy to be in. So if that sounds like something that you are interested in, then head over once again to beginner photography, podcast.com and click that premium membership button right at the top of the page. So that is it. Let's go ahead and get on into this interview with Vincent Pugliese. Today's return guest is Vincent Pugliese. I had Vinny on the podcast a way back in episode 50, where Vinnie shared his experiences being one of the top sports photographers having shooting games such as the world series and the Superbowl, while also having a successful wedding photography business. Today we're going to dive deep into how he actually built that photography business. Vinnie, thank you so much for coming back on the podcast.

Vinny Pugliese: 05:06 Raymond, my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

New Speaker: 05:08 I am super excited to be chatting with you today. Over the past I guess almost a year now we, I've been working under your guidance, kinda trying to build the podcast, trying to build photography and the way that you have taught business to me is something that I have never read online, have never read in any sort of you know tutorials and it seems so obvious, which is just like crazy to me. So I'm excited to have you on today and talk about how you built your business, obviously from the experience and hopefully help the listeners build their businesses as well. But before we get into that, for those who haven't been listening for the past almost three years, can you share how you actually got your start in photography?

Vinny Pugliese: 05:55 Yeah, it was, it was there. Some people might relate, but it was born out of desperation. I was, it was not something where I was like, I have a calling for photography or the arts. I never did. I was in the sports and I was in the traveling and I had no money and I was, I was not the most ethical person in the world. I had been arrested for stealing. I'd gone through, I dropped out of college four or five times maybe by the time I was 22. And I this is how it started. It literally started by me waking up in the middle of the night in a cold panic because I had a nightmare that I was caught stealing from my job cause I was, we would overcharge the customers at a drive through. No kidding. Yeah, yeah. That's, and that's a whole separate podcast you've ever want to go back into it. And it would be funny to do it, but I woke up in the middle of the night because some old lady that was a customer at the store, it might in my dream, my nightmare pointed at me and said, I got you.

Vinny Pugliese: 06:50 I got you. I still, I could still see her face. I jumped up in the middle of the night sweating. That was the first time that I had thought at all, what, what am I doing with my life? All my friends, maybe not my friends, but the people I went to school with had graduated high school, had graduated college and I was still on my fifth or six major at community college, dropping out, getting a job, getting into trouble here and there and I went downstairs and was two o'clock in the morning. I remember it's May 24th I think 1994 still remember the date and I just sat at my kitchen table, I moved back in with my parents. I was not, I was a complete slacker and my dad came downstairs and me and my dad didn't get along. And you can imagine why after hearing some of the beginning and he said what's wrong?

Vinny Pugliese: 07:34 And I just, you know, serious for the first time ever I was like, I don't know what I'm doing with my life and my dad's not one for a ton of words. And he went and got a glass of water. I just sat there with my, you know, my head, my hands and he said, well he wasn't even looking at me. He goes, well you like traveling cause I would just take trips because you like taking pictures and I only had a point and shoot camera like it a little tight. It wasn't a real camera. He goes, you know, you like traveling, you like sports, you like taking pictures. Why don't you become a photographer? Three he said to me and I said to myself, photographer, I said I love w. And I remember seeing photographers on the sidelines, all the games I would go to, I was always buying a ticket in the crowd.

Vinny Pugliese: 08:11 They were getting paid next to the players. I said, I, I know I'm going to fail because I failed everything so far. But here's the reason why I started cause I said, well at least it's going to be something cool that I'm gonna fail at. Cause I knew I was gonna fail. Why, what, what would, what in my history give me any type of perspective that I would make this happen. So what happened was there was nothing to lose. So I went and bought a camera the next day, bought a Canon. Okay. 81, I think it was. Ah, yeah. And made a bad purchase on a lens. I talked to my uncle and he was like, what did you, my uncles, we only wanted the photography. I never even asked him a question. He goes, you know, they have this thing called auto-focus that's come out in the last, you're too, and you bought a manual focus camera. And I was like, well, whatever I'm going to learn. And I just started from that literally two worlds. It was my life from being born up until that day and then saying, I'm going to go do something. And all of a sudden the drive and the ambition and the passion the next day was there. And, and, and [inaudible] lives right there. So that's exactly how it started.

Raymond: 09:13 Yeah. Oh my gosh. That is a, I got to say, if I had a, a, if, if our son Charlie ever got to that point to where, you know, you said that you were at 22, I'd be, I'd be worried for sure. But obviously looking back, it's great to see your, your rise.

Vinny Pugliese: 09:27 My brother's still tells the story and it, I don't think he's ever forgot. And he's like, I used to say all the time, what are you going to do? Like he would say about me, I was so worried about you. I'm like, yeah, but the funny thing is even in high school when they were saying that, they're like, what do you, and I remember thinking, I'm not worried, I'm going to figure something out. I remember at 17 years old in the hallway, my high school said [inaudible] everybody's going to, you know, Tufts or whatever, universities are going from long Island. Like I'm fine. It was four years later where it finally hit me. But I'll tell you if I did well in school, I would have been an accountant or something and this never would have happened. So I'm grateful for all those lost years.

Raymond: 10:01 Yeah. And it's interesting because a, obviously me being a 31 it's interesting thinking back to high school, I can still very vividly remember high school and thinking after I graduate high school, like I'm an adult and I'm going to have to know these things. And I always felt very fortunate, quote unquote, knowing what it is that I wanted to do, be in that creative field of photography or cinematography. But I knew a lot of people who didn't. They, they, they had no idea what they were doing. And I, I always remember thinking they're screwed. You know, they're not going to have it. They have no idea what it is that they want to do and they are screwed. But now that I'm 31 and think back to 2222 is still, I feel like 31 is psyllid baby, you know what I mean? 22 was even younger.

Vinny Pugliese: 10:43 And where does it even come from if you think about it? I cannot think of a time in my life that I was any dumber than when I was 17 or 18 years old. So at 17 or 18 years old, you're telling me I've got to make the most important decision of my life that's going to affect the rest of my life. And if I don't know what it's 17 I'm screwed. Who teaches that?

Raymond: 11:02 Right? Right. Yeah.

Vinny Pugliese: 11:03 It tells us that it's, it's insane. And we're doing that to our kids today. You're 14, you better pick your major, you better. Are you serious? Like just go live for a while and get some experience and then decide why do you need to, it's, I think we, we are screwing kids up left and right by doing that.

Raymond: 11:23 And it's not just you because I get dozens of emails every single week from people who are from listeners who are in their forties or in their 50s who are saying that they just picked up their camera for the first time and there's always a sentiment afterwards that's like better late than never. Or like I wished that I started earlier and it's like, no, now now's the perfect time. You still have plenty of time to learn photography. So it's great that you are, that you're living proof of it, you know, 22 isn't it? But you don't have to start when you're, when you're 14 or make that decision. So okay, let, let's move on with these questions. I'm, I got super excited. I always get excited talking. I love, like, we can just go right from there. I love it. I know, I know.

Raymond: 11:59 Oh my gosh. Okay. So, so the last time that you were on, we actually talked about your, specifically the whole episode was about your experience, you know, shooting the world series, the Superbowl Stanley cup, some of the world's top sporting events. And recently I read your book freelance to freedom and you share the story of how you got the opportunity to shoot those games. Right. and I think that's where I really want to take this episode because as I said earlier, this is, this is really kind of like the untapped marketing, a strategy, I guess, if you even want to call it that. But really it's so much easier than that. So can you share the stories specifically about how you you know, how you got to shoot the Superbowl? It was because you didn't shoot any games prior to that season. Is that right?

Vinny Pugliese: 12:46 The, which it depends which one, which one are you talking about?

Raymond: 12:49 Well, I think I'm talking about the Stanley Cup

Vinny Pugliese: 12:50 Stanley cup. Yeah. Okay. Yes, that's a perfect example of it. So well, the funniest situation is in the very beginning, right? That story that I just told you about from my kitchen table, I bought a camera and I w I started sneaking into games while I was a big New York Rangers fan. Well, that was three weeks before the Rangers played in the Stanley cup. Two weeks before he played the Stanley cup for the first time and you know, they, they could win the cup for the first time in 54 years. Huge fan. And I bought a ticket to game five of the Stanley cup and it turns out that they beat Vancouver two games in a row and they could win the Stanley cup in Madison square garden on the night that I have the ticket first time in 54 years, if you're, if anybody is a ranger fan or old enough to remember that it was historic.

Vinny Pugliese: 13:33 I'm in the building with my camera. It's literally the first time that I'm using my camera to shoot like for real and I can photograph the Stanley cup. Well, I'm in the top section so I'm not getting a good grade. I can get something. Well they lost and there was no Stanley cup. Fast forward 20 something years later, I've been a professional photographer all those years, still have not photographed the Stanley cup. It's the only thing I want to photograph. The only thing I want, I'm like, I've shot the Stanley cup, the world series, the Pope for different presidents, everything you could imagine spend a day with the Dalai Lama. I still haven't photographed a Stanley cup victory. So I've been, I'm in Pittsburgh now for the last 10 years. So I've been photographing the penguins for different outlets, you know, different agencies. And every year they come close and they don't win.

Vinny Pugliese: 14:16 They make it the conference finals and they lose the big. So finally I got, you know, we have three kids. We start running our, our mastermind business, everything going on and I have less and less time to shoot the sports and less and less desire to it. It's almost winding down. But I still want the Stanley cup, almost like a player like, and the, my career, I knew I needed the cup. So, but, but I'm not willing with everything else growing to like photograph every, no February, Tuesday night game versus Winnipeg. I don't, I don't want to do it. So I started, but I've learned through all these years that everything comes down to your network. Everything comes to it in terms of building a business and it's so underappreciated. We go to SEO and [inaudible] and Google and how do you get found this way and how do you use these marketing techniques?

Vinny Pugliese: 15:00 But 87% of jobs that you get in the world are, are, are from referral. It's just a way, whether it's photography or it's, you know, regular jobs in businesses. That's how people get jobs. It's been proven. Nobody pays attention to it. Nobody focuses on that. That's all we ever did was focused on that. Helping other people get jobs that way. Connections and then ourselves. So what I noticed was little by little I was getting in everywhere. You know, it was LeBron James. I wanted to photograph him in, you know, the conference finals on their way to their third straight championship. Miami could not get a pass at all, but I made connections, friendship, my friend Brian, Brian [inaudible] who works for ESPN, literally they're about to win the championship. I sent him a text. Brian, you need another photographer for game six and Indi two minutes later, does a past waiting for you.

Vinny Pugliese: 15:46 Your we'll call you. You want to stay with me on my hotel? Shoot. Two days later, LeBron James is right in front of me for the national Anthem. They don't win, but it keeps going on like this. So the Stanley cup happened like this. Didn't shoot one game all year, the entire 2006 season. Then shoot one game. But through connections, through helping other people. This guy named Jared Wicker, Hamza photographer in Pittsburgh, I'd sent work his way. Weddings, portrait work. We've developed a relationship. The penguins win the conference championship and I'm like, I got to shoot the Stanley cup. I'm gonna miss it. Driving back from Nashville and I get a phone call from Jared saying, there's going to be a phone call from you from an agency in Sweden. They need somebody to shoot the finals. I'm already booked. I recommended you boom, phone call. Then next thing I know I'm shooting game five of the finals where the penguins can win it.

Vinny Pugliese: 16:32 I walk into the photo room and I get one of the tigers tells me everybody's mad at you. I'm like why? They mad at me cause we bust our butts all year shooting every game and you just walk in here, game five of the cup, the thing we've all been dreaming for and you're going to shoot the Stanley cup. And I'm like, I've been trying to tell everybody how to build a business and I want to use my time efficiently. And it worked out well. They lost that game. One in San Jose, same company called me back the next year, go to Nashville for game six go. If you want to shoot that force, penguins win the Stanley cup. I get the picture of Sidney Crosby. You know, it just caps it all off. And it just came down to the fact that I shot two hockey games and two seasons and both of them was Stanley cup final and it was only because of the network we built around us.

Raymond: 17:13 Yeah, that's so great. And it wasn't even like you're known as the Stanley cup photographer. No, it's not like you were sought after. It was purely because you built the group of people around you, the network of people around you who you know, you obviously tried to help in any way that you could and they were happy to reciprocate for you. But it's interesting because when you say that you walk into the photo room and all these other photographers and attitude, it's so interesting how inside I still feel like if I was one of those photographers I would be mad too because all these years you're told, you know, you've got to work harder. I've got to work harder. That'll work your butt off. And here you are. You know, you come in and it's not that you like found a cheap, it's that you found a way to, to utilize the work that you are doing to work smarter.

Vinny Pugliese: 17:57 It wasn't the first game I ever shot. I did bust my butt for years and years more than more. And that's the whole thing I didn't relationships get, yeah, those relationships get developed during those times. But you know, they, they compound success compounds, whether it's money or, or jobs, you, you put your money in the bank, you, you invest it, it compounds. But same with relationships. And same with your work. When you're seeing their night after night meeting people, you know, normally photographers just put their head down in their camera and they Chimp and they don't talk to people. I talk to people, you know, I find out what other people kind of needed, how can I connect other people have just real conversations. That's how you get known and then all of a sudden everybody kind of knows you. And then when something's available, boom. So the funny thing about that is we've transferred that into every aspect of our business. And I think that's a lost art of business is building great real relationships with generosity and not just trying to, how do I get as much money as I can or get as many jobs as I can.

Raymond: 18:51 Right. So in the beginning, this is kind of what I want, one thing that I want to know about you in the beginning you know, building these personal relationships. Was it, was it because you saw the potential of them getting you further or is that just kind of in your DNA to talk with people, get to know them and be that

Vinny Pugliese: 19:10 Connect or, no, in the beginning it was very selfish. It was very selfish. It was how do I get what I want to get? How do I get into this? How do I get that? And you know, I'm a, I'm an Italian from New York. We you to figure stuff out. A lot of times you know, you, it's not always easy. Everybody's always talking, everybody's always fighting for things and you got to figure out angles. So I learned to figure out angles. It wasn't very I want to say ethical cause I don't think goes that far, but was very selfish. It wasn't unethical, but it was, it was how do I get what I need? And what happened was I learned all these skills and I learned the value of it. But I also learned that it was very empty. By the end. I had gotten everything I wanted.

Vinny Pugliese: 19:50 I'd shot all the games though. I'd been there. You know, I've, I've anything you can imagine. Yeah, we've, I've done walking with Tom Brady as he's walks out to the field, shooting a champion. You get a super, I shot his first super bowl, everything you can imagine. But by the end of it, I think it probably around the time that you even interviewed me, it was like all these great stories, but not as many, but not the friendships and the relationships like I would've wanted, right? Because it was all about what I need and I see that a lot in this world and how do I get what? So literally I have to flip the script completely to where I know the skills on how to build it, but I was building it the wrong way. I was building it for why I needed and then when I start reading people like Seth Goden and Bob Berg and the go giver and all that type of stuff where generosity is the key, helping other people out.

Vinny Pugliese: 20:35 Zig Ziglar, you can get anything you want in life if you just help enough other people get what they want. Right? And the only problem with that is it's really focused on getting what you want. But the whole thing is the generosity. The people that, every story that I tell you came from the generosity of somebody else. When I got on the field at Lambeau field in 1995 as a fan and I'm photographing Brett FARs MVP season and am I literally my hat on backwards cause I was in the crowd and it got an NFL films came by and said, are you shooting today? That's what I'm sticking pictures, you know, for myself, I drove the Greece, I went on a 14 day tour, the Midwest photographing different States from the crowd, the last games, green Bay got a ticket last minute, snuck to the front row and NFL films photographer, his assistant didn't show up, opens the gate for me, gives me a press pass.

Vinny Pugliese: 21:20 I now in the huddle with Brett Farve, just an incredible that I left that night ago. This is a literally walked out into the parking lot after being in the press conference and I said, this is what I'm gonna do with my life. It can't be in the crowd anymore. I've gotta be on the field. That came from the generosity of Jim Jordan from NFL films seeing me, we're still in connection to today. He still tells my story how that started. My photography career, I always thought it was me in my pictures, in my tenacity. It was always somebody giving me an internship, somebody gives me a tip, somebody giving me a connection, somebody else along the way did it for me. And I never really recognized that. It's the whole, you know, I did the study of this, you know, Frank Sinatra my way. Like that's his song promise. He didn't write that song. Paul Anka wrote that song. He didn't do it his way. He was helped even with that song, I'm doing it my way and that was the ego that I had to get over. So once I, once I put all that together about five years ago, then everything just changed. The book, the course that we did, the masterminds, the community, the speed, it all changed when I started leading with generosity to build a network and it just continues. So yeah,

Raymond: 22:28 I told them the hard way. We all do unfortunately. So when, when when you, when you go in there, I don't, I, I hate to say aye. It's framed as if a, if, if, if this was all done intentionally like from the starts. So I guess, let me, let me rephrase. Why do you think people have such a hard time accepting that this is such a great answer, right? That this is such a great way that this is that that you can build a business this way. Why do you think so many people would rather try Facebook ads, focus on SEO and do all these other tactics when something as simple as just forming a relationship with, with somebody else can, can obviously prove to be so beneficial

Vinny Pugliese: 23:11 Because it seems too simple.

Raymond: 23:13 Mm.

Vinny Pugliese: 23:14 And being simple as the most complex thing you can do and people just didn't know and nobody's selling that. How do you make money off of that? Right? You can make money off of telling you you need the SEO and [inaudible] content. Facebook ads, which, and I'm not saying they don't work, but I am saying we've never used them. And our podcast launched and within three weeks at a hundred reviews on there and 10,000 downloads in the first month. And it just keeps growing. I don't promote it. It's all from the network. It's all from putting out content that people really want to listen to and promoting the people within there that are the P like telling stories about my friends that do things. Yeah. Tell interesting stories about myself that people want to share and it grows that way. And I think there's not a whole lot of money to be made that way so people don't talk about it and, but yeah, it's just the truth.

Raymond: 24:07 So why do you, what makes, what makes the personal network better you think? When, when in a world where you could not talk to anybody, right? In theory you could not talk to anybody. Start up a Facebook page, print up tee shirts, you know, and then just run Facebook ads and make money. What makes building this personal network better than doing things like that?

Vinny Pugliese: 24:29 Well, first of all, it depends on you. I want [inaudible] real relationships. I want real friendship. The retreat we just came back from the mastermind is three days in the mountains of Tennessee and we're just, there was, nobody was on their phone. It was 17 of us just talking, eating dinner together, brainstorming, met people crave relationships. Everybody's on their phone, everybody's dialed into their computers, their heads are down. Nobody's talking. When you put people in a cabin and talk for three days, the tears. We just had a conversation just about two hours ago about just life changing. Nobody does it anymore and everybody's so into how do I optimize this? How do I maximize it? But I can tell you from my perspective, I had a million acquaintances and no friends seven years ago. Everybody knew me. I was friendly. I could have a beer with anybody.

Vinny Pugliese: 25:18 You have dinner, but I had nobody that can go deep with not one and the ones that I did, they weren't that clear. So it, I'm just saying this, this is only my story I'm not telling you to be asked to do is I personally in my heart needed this. I needed real relationships and friendships and people that I can help out and that I can trust. And the whole thing came down to like helping other people out, which I was not taught and nothing gets my parents, but it was always, well, if you get this amount for a gift, you give this amount back and you kind of keep score and everything. Well, they didn't do this for you. I'm not going to do it back. And it's losing all that. How do you go out of your way to build people up to share their work? We're so quick to share a celebrity or a sports team. You know you're a Dodger fan, right? Yes. We're so quick to talk about our teams. They don't need you Raymond. Right? They're going to make enough.

Raymond: 26:09 Don't say that. No,

Vinny Pugliese: 26:10 I actually, I do need you now. They need you. They need you in that extra innings, but, but they really don't need your money, but your friends need your support. Your friends who you go to there, you know, get your hair cut from them. They're the ones that could really use you talking about them. Not the Dodgers Dodgers have enough money to promote, but we don't do that for each other. So if you do that, and that's all it is. I like, I'll give you an instance today. One of my podcasts about my friend Chad Jeffers, he's a, he's a guitar player for Carrie Underwood, and he's got a course that just came out and so I did a podcast and I promoted it today. Literally he goes, and I don't know what kind of audience he adds rock stars. Well, he takes my podcasts and then does a great post about it. I didn't ask him to do it. I wanted to promote what he's doing. I want to make him successful. In turn, I didn't ask them now, now my podcast is getting out to people I'd never would've gotten it to, and I never asked for it. It's generosity first with no expectation, and that took me 40 something years to learn.

Raymond: 27:07 Yeah. That that generosity first is, is is really an interesting concept because we do live in that world of like, you know, a win win or an eye for an eye or you do this for me and I'd be more than [inaudible]

Vinny Pugliese: 27:18 Scratch my back. I scratch yours. Well that always comes from you scratching first.

Raymond: 27:22 Exactly. Yeah. That, that, you know, what does it, quid pro quo. Right? But you personally, I want to share another, I want you to share another story of yours because you were running a very successful wedding photography business here in Indiana and you and your wife had decided that you were just going to up and move essentially like across the, well,

Vinny Pugliese: 27:46 Pittsburgh tomorrow, not yet far enough to come back

Raymond: 27:49 To an entirely new market. Yup. Right. Where most photographers, myself included, would just poop their pants. Thinking of the idea of having to start over again from scratch and yet you two had none of that. So can you share, how did you, how did you make that transition with literally no time, no downtime between weddings. Hey Raymond here, and if you're listening to this, you are listening to the free version of today's interview. If you want to hear more from today's guest about the business of photography, consider becoming a premium member every week. Guests answer questions about products, pricing packages, and so much more. It will help your growing photography business thrive. This is the next logical step to join head over to beginner photography, podcast.com and click the premium membership button at the top of the page. That is a, Oh my gosh, there's so much there to unpack and I hope that everybody goes back and listens to that because that singlehandedly alone I have implemented, I've started to implement by reaching out and asking that exact question to my friends and I've already seen a return on it and it wasn't like, as you said, it should come from a place of generosity and that's where I'm trying to frame everything and that's where it is coming from.

Raymond: 29:11 And already I've seen returns on it and, and that feeling is just really good inside that somebody else wants to help me because I helped them.

Vinny Pugliese: 29:20 Can I ask a personal question about your podcast and maybe edit it all out if it's not? Absolutely. Let's go. How many can I ask? How many downloads you get per month, per month? So we just hit our first 20,000 downloads. Seriously, 20 are those unique downloads or downloads? I believe just total total downloads. Okay.

Raymond: 29:42 Whatever. Whatever. Lipson's stat news.

Vinny Pugliese: 29:44 So these people, I'm calling out your audience right here. So I hope you don't mind these 20 possibly, I don't know how many thousands of people it is. You know, multiple episodes. How many reviews do you have in your podcast? 112 hundred and 12 reviews. 20,000. Yeah. Downloads. Yes. Now, is there value in your podcast? It's what makes somebody keep coming back. Value content. You're, you're, you're, it's somebody who's not let somebody listening to more than once. There's value there, right? Missed opportunity from so many people because I can tell you by me listening to podcasts, reading books, leaving reviews, writing notes, thanking them for what they did. Do you know how much effort it goes into writing a book? You know how much effort goes into doing a podcast a lot. They just hear this to get the number one thing people crave is appreciation and you put all this stuff out there and we all know I have a podcast.

Vinny Pugliese: 30:41 You put it out there, there could be crickets. I stopped the blog four years ago because I thought nobody was reading it. No, there were no comments. And then for a year I kept hearing why did you stop that blog? I loved it. I never knew you were reading it. It would have been nice if somebody told me that, cause I would've probably kept going. So can you imagine how much effort you're thinking? If you've got 2000 reviews, why shouldn't you have 2000 reviews? If you've got $20,000 a month, people aren't thinking about how they can help the people that are helping them. Yeah. So there you got that to get a plug for you to get more views. I just want to use it as an example, but I'm serious. It's like who are the people who've helped you that you'd haven't appreciated this? For the audience who, who, and that's what I do. So I make a list of it, you know, I want to make sure that the people around me are supportive because if they do better Raymond, you do better too.

Raymond: 31:35 Yeah. Yeah. That's very true. That's very true. There's, there's been a several weeks where you know, you'll go by and as you said, kind of like you just, it just crickets, you know, you try to put it on this time to put out the best content, podcasts, you know, whatever it is out and a win. Now it's like you don't do it for specifically for the feedback. But regardless, it always is nice to, to hear that somebody, somebody appreciates that.

Vinny Pugliese: 32:02 Yeah. And, and, and to the listener, put yourself in Raymond shoes or anybody else's shoes. You want the same thing for your business. You bust your butt for 12 hours shooting a wedding or a portrait shoot. Isn't it great when you go to the mailbox and there's literally a handwritten thank you card from your client with a gift card. Oh man. It makes you want to do better work. You, when you go online and you see that review on your photography website about they were the best photographer ever. Why don't we do that more? And it really is that simple in a lot of ways.

Raymond: 32:33 Yeah. This three months or so ago, I I shot wedding for a couple who I had a great time at their wedding, had a lot of fun. We weren't like the same type of person, but regardless, like we still had a very good time working together after the wedding. I was like, these are great photos. I worked my butt off to, to edit like the entire wedding that weekend and I delivered them their photos on Tuesday from their Saturday wedding. And I never heard a single word, you know, about it. And I'm not saying again that I, that I do it just to get that recognition, but I will say that, that it took longer to build their album than it did some other couples because I guess some of that momentum went away. Excitement, that excitement, that excitement. So that's a, that's something interesting to think about. Interesting. Something about, yeah,

Vinny Pugliese: 33:25 Just to think about who do you go above and beyond for. And a lot of times it's subconscious, but man of somebody is referring people to me, if they're sharing what I'm doing, Gary Vaynerchuk calls it guilt marketing. You feel guilty not helping that person back. You know, somebody sends somebody to you and you know, like, ah, you know, Raymond semi, somebody that would be good for what I do. Like I really need to literally connect him to somebody that be good for his podcast and I don't, it's not even an eye for an eye or keeping score

Vinny Pugliese: 33:57 That I'm not helping them out.

Raymond: 33:58 So fantastic. Fantastic way to kind of wrap all that together. And as you were saying that, it made me think of how you connected me with with Nick Adams and I've been excited to to chat with him. He's been very busy. But I hope to get him on the podcast here soon as well. And, and it's just that, it's that appreciation. So just publicly, I want to say thank you for it, for that.

Vinny Pugliese: 34:21 Well, you're welcome. And I just, I just want to leave with this. It's like, think about that. I know you, I know Nick, right? You too. You need to know each other, but you probably would never connect if in my position I didn't connect you to everybody else in that situation. Everybody else knows somebody here and somebody there and they'll never know each other. You become a connector, then all of a sudden they both appreciate you, appreciate you. And I'm telling you two years later when you're at a conference and you both blown it up, well, all three of us are there and they go, how'd you guys meet? Oh, Vincent connected us. You become a conduit in so many different people's lives by being a connector with no expectations, and it's just all part of the process.

Raymond: 35:00 It's going to happen. We're going to make sure that it happens on, on May 24th on a on a May 24th. That's what we're gonna make it. Right. Well Vinny thank you for coming on. Thank you for sharing everything that you have about just from the real world experience that you have learned about building this personal network in a very, I hate to say radical marketing strategy but it's in some ways it is, it can be looked at it that way. And you laid it out in a pretty step by step process and made it very easy to consume for a lot of the listeners. And I know that they've got a bunch out of this, so I'm actually going to personally my audience to share their goals for 2020 in the group and we are going to make it happen. See, see how many people we can help in 20, 20. So, and that's all because of you. So thank you. Thank you very much.

Vinny Pugliese: 35:50 You are the best man. Thank you.

Raymond: 35:52 Before I let you go, can you share with listeners how they can discover more about you and find out about the, a total eye freedom podcast and and, and who it's for?

Vinny Pugliese: 36:03 Yeah, in the total life freedom podcast. It's really fun. It's about three months old. It's a daily short form solo show. So the daily podcast, five to eight minutes, it's just me ranting, telling stories. I, I have no intro, no outro, no music, and even say my name, we just get right into it. Tell your story, give you a lesson, hopefully some inspiration. So that's iTunes or Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts. That's that. So excited for me right now and everything we do is a total life freedom.com. Oh, I don't even know if I told you that you read the book. I wrote the book called freelance to freedom. I recorded the audio book and I give that away totally for free. So I want more people to ever read it. So if you go to the website, there's a link for free audio book, feel free to download it. It's all yours. So,

Raymond: 36:49 And that's exactly, that's exactly where I got it. And I'm actually gonna make a video of how to put it on your phone so that you can listen to while while you're in the car. So I will post that in the show notes. If anybody wants to download that links to download Vinny's book as well as how to put it on your phone. We'll we'll be in the shownotes Vinny again, man, thank you so much for coming on and sharing everything and that you did, it was a pleasure chatting with you today. And I, I, I'm just so thankful for our relationships, so thank you.

Vinny Pugliese: 37:14 I am as well. Thanks so much.

Raymond: 37:16 What did I tell you? What did I tell you? If you didn't take anything away from this episode, then you're dead inside. That's it. That's the, that's the only explanation that it could be or, or you know, maybe your mind is just too analytical. You can't see the direct correlation of how this would work in a business like photography. But I assure you, I have, I have seen just small changes in my own business related to this exact topic and I'm telling you it does work. And my biggest takeaway was just that, you know, we are all you know, w when you, when you run a business, you are selling, you know, that's, that's what we do. We sell. But if you stop thinking about it, like selling and you start thinking about it like serving and helping people cause people want your services.

Raymond: 38:02 It's not like you're trying to be a shady used car salesman. People want your services. So if you can find a way to serve people, you know, we are, we're just as people naturally inclined to focus on ourselves. And this comes from a place of survival and now we use it in a place to thrive instead of just to survive. And if you help somebody achieve their own goals, you know, maybe somebody's goal is just to, you know, capture beautiful memories of their own family and you can help somebody achieve that of theirs. Not only will that make you happy for helping them, but then you become the hero in their story. The one where they achieved their goal is you become the hero. And we often overcomplicate things that just simply don't need to be over complicated. So that is why in December I'm going to be hosting a challenge.

Raymond: 38:55 I'll have a special episode come out all about how to create goals and how to stick with them. You know, in your photography, whether it just be, you know, as a hobby or as a business, it's not, it's not going to matter. And then we're going to share your goals in the Facebook group and find an accountability buddy so that we can once and for all, hold on to our new year's resolutions and achieve our goals. So that is it for this week. I'm so excited for that. Until next week, I want you to get out. I want you to keep shooting, I want you to stay safe and I want you to focus on yourself. That's it. I love you all.

outro: 39:31 If you enjoy today's podcast, please leave us a review in iTunes or your favorite podcast player and continue the conversation with Raymond and other listeners of the podcast by joining the beginner photography podcast Facebook group today. Thank you. We'll see you again next week.