Dima Sytnik is the Cheif Technical officer of Skylum, the company behind the photo editing software Luminar. With their newest release Luminar 4 they promise to save you time when editing by using AI to assist in the most mundane parts of the editing process.

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In This Episode You'll Learn:

• How Skylum got started in photography

• How AI can speed up our editing

• The privacy concerns with AI and how Skylum solved them

• Why Luminar 4 is different than any other photo editor

• How AI Sky replacement works

• Most common issues photographers face when retouching portraits and how Luminar 4 solves them

• Who Luminar 4 is perfect for

Resources:

• Learn More About Luminar 4 HERE

  
  

Did you enjoy this episode? Check out more recent interviews with other great guests!

Full Episode Transcription:

Disclaimer: The transcript was transcribed electronically by Temi.com and may contain errors that do not reflect accurately what the speaker said. Because of this, please do not quote this automated transcript.

Raymond: 00:00 Welcome to the beginner photography podcast. And today we see the future of editing and it is AI. So let's get into it.

Intro: 00:08 Welcome to the beginner photography podcast with Raymond Hatfield, the podcast dedicated to helping you grow your photography skills. Raman interviews the world's top photographers in their field to ask questions that will get you taking better photos today. Now with you as always, husband, father, home brewer, LA Dodger fan and Indianapolis wedding photographer, Raymond Hatfield. Welcome back, back

Raymond: 00:38 To today's episode of the podcast. As always, I am your host Raymond Hatfield and I am so excited for you to be here. I truly appreciate you and you know, checking out what it is that we have to share today. So today is actually a podcast episode that will be one that I look forward to hearing in, I don't know, five to seven years time when the powers of AI and machine learning are in just about everything that we use as photographers. Because today, what we're gonna talk about is really the first step into the future. So a little backstory. Skylum is a company and they are the makers of the popular photo editor called Luminar and they are getting ready to release Luminar 4, which actually they're not getting ready to release. It comes out today, which it actually makes a huge leap forward by focusing on AI to speed up your editing and expand your creative possibilities.

Raymond: 01:34 So today I'm going to be talking with the chief technical officer of Skylum and a, which is the creator of Luminar. And you know, we just talk about everything that Luminar can do. So if you're listening to this right now, you may be thinking to yourself that AI in photography is cheating, or maybe you have concerns about privacy. And these are things that we tackle in this interview because these issues are are, are my concerns as well. You know, so your concerns are my concerns. So, you know, hold on and get ready for this interview. But first I want to give a huge shout out to both Bobby and Tyler for leaving a for leaving the podcast, a review in iTunes. Now, Bobby said in his review that he loved everything that Chris Owens shared back when he was when I interviewed him back in episode one 59.

Raymond: 02:32 And that was a fantastic episode. If you don't remember, Chris Owens is the lead photographer of the Indianapolis motor Speedway, which shoots the Indianapolis 500 and a, I mean, he really gets into the logistics of what it takes to shoot such a sporting event. So go back and check that one out again. That's episode one 59 and Tyler, Oh, Tyler Tyler is one of the few listeners who I have had the pleasure of meeting in person and it has just been fantastic to see his photography grow as much as it has. You know, it's cool to see cause he's, you know, he's, he's going places, he's going places. So really awesome both of them for leaving a review. So again, thank you both so much. You each have an everlasting place in my heart for your kindness. Honestly, I cannot properly explain how grateful to I am to everyone who has left the podcast a review.

Raymond: 03:29 So again, Bobby Tyler, thank you. Now before I start tearing up over here, there's one last thing that I want to clarify, which we actually didn't get to in the interview. Which is that many new photographers, you know, don't want to make the commitment of a monthly subscription for editing software like Adobe light room or Photoshop. And I get that. If you're just not shooting a ton right now, then I wouldn't want to pay for it either. But I asked and confirmed that Luminar for the program that we're going to talk about today is a one time purchase and not a monthly subscription. Now, on top of that, I think it's super reasonably priced as it is, especially for how powerful it is. And on top of, on top of that, I actually have a code after, after the interview for you to use, which will save you even more money and make it a no brainer. So stay tuned after the interview for that code. Okay. Let's go ahead on and get into today's interview with Dima Sytnik. Today's guest is Dima Sytnik, the chief technical officer of skylum, a company behind the photo editing software Luminar with their newest release Luminar 4. They promise to save you time when editing by using AI to assist in the editing process. This is going to be quite an episode. Dima thank you so much for coming on the the beginner photography podcast.

Dima Sytnik: 05:01 Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate and I will be glad to answer all your questions and the help your audience was seeing bigger pictures of what we're doing and about photography. And I'm ready to share all my ideas and thoughts on this.

Raymond: 05:19 This is, this is exciting. This is like a whole new world when it comes to photography by using AI and just seeing the opportunity that the future has. Now I know that some photographers are gonna have a specific questions about you know, whether or not that, but still legitimizes them as a photographer. And we're gonna get into this deep because I've had some time to play around with the software. And I got my own personal questions to ask you, but before we get to those, can you tell the audience a little bit about how Skylum got started in photography?

Dima Sytnik: 05:54 Oh, it's actually a long because a, I started Skylum with my friend Paul, but before scholar ma, I was a developer in a small computer game company. So we created computer games and we not been like hired or we do it for fun. So I got a lot of big round of a you in the image process and, and, and, and, and truly mathematics. And we started to create small games for iPhone when I also was the, it was got the ability to create own apps sexually. And we was one of the first companies and we use names like Macphun and the beginning. And so, but just creating small games was not, not for me. And I, as in, we started looking around and see what kind of other cool thing we can do. And the, we started to create small apps for image processing.

Dima Sytnik: 06:53 We was among one of the first apps with a special effects for, I also actually, and this app was called Epic photo studio, but the first name was like 100 for the fielders. So all our, that's true. And what our competitive advantage was to create 100 different full of filters. And it was quite popular at the time. But slowly we start to grow. I mean, code base is will get bigger and bigger. And we was really interested in the, into the like high quality image processing because at the time mobile photography was so childish. And we moved to the desktop actually because I'm not just interested into the, in, in the engineering, but I was interested in the internet photography and I was really curious what new we can do for photographers. And we started to create a more advanced software for a desktop.

Dima Sytnik: 07:54 We created efx studio for the rest of the new graded creative scheme. Then we slowly moved to the [inaudible] and actually right now where we are. So we changed the name to Skylum when we got released a windows version because may Macphun was a little bit cheesy for them. And like we, we are really aiming for that business business oriented companies. So we can do some kind of bizarre things. But with this name it was do we treat you? So like for future, like it's a bad idea to include names of other company or best product of other company into your company name. That's advice for guys. But at the time we think just about as fast as fast, as fast as possible to or in your company to start making games for mobile. It was like, I saw that it was done in two days and the name was the last thing that I think about.

Dima Sytnik: 08:53 So, and the right now, we actually a pretty big company, more than 140 people and we hope we're really focused on the new technologies. And the image processing. And we moved from four, from mobile to desktop. It's quite opposite from other companies. But at the moment actually we take a look to bring over latest technologists and the high quality image processing to the back to the mobile because it, it's just grown up from the timing. We started significantly. And the overall goal is to provide a advanced and a session essentials to, for everyone who actually interested in photo editing no matter what kind of, they weren't going to use old technologies.

Raymond: 09:45 I think it's funny that you know, the last thing that you thought about was the name because for a lot of times photographers, that's the, that's the very first thing that they think about and then they worry about the photography side second, but so worried about the name and getting it right. It's great to see that obviously the name isn't as important as a, the technology or the product behind behind the name. So that's definitely a lesson for photographers to take. Now I have had the opportunity to test out your newest offering Luminar 4, for a few days now. And the big selling point of Luminar for it is that it's using AI to help in the editing process. So before we talk about how AI is being used to edit photos, can you tell me, I guess, give me a good explanation of what exactly is AI?

Dima Sytnik: 10:37 So that's, that's, that's, that's quite simple. If we, if you like I can like say about like Luminar actually all filters named AI means the results of their work will depend on the content of your images. Like they contend to where, so actually other tools without AI name, they like they can be very complex and very cool. I, I don't underestimate them and I don't over evaluate AI tools, but they like work same way on every single photo. But AI tools are different. They take a look at your photo, they automatically just wants to build ranges for image to keep it like real. They actually change their board based on the image content and under AI tools. I understand set of different algorithms which can do the thing. They have a combination of machine learning technologist to do image recognize, recognizing but and segmentation and enhancement with most cases.

Dima Sytnik: 11:53 It's like a really combination with the, yeah, I I mean machine learning technologists and classical glutens with some kind of decision trees. So they, they quite complex and it's not like marketing term as like other people think. No. We actually thinking about how we can change the way how people edit photos, take out the boring stuff and bring in new abilities for most of the customers that you rate results in a simple way. It's quite like complex process. But I think this is, this is actually the most important thing that we are doing in the software because at the moment there is a lot of different photo editing software or image. I an and actually they preach same right now they can, people with actually interfaces. There's hundreds of them on mobile phones, on the desktops. And only what they do in is the rub, the same shade, those highlights groups contrast in a different user interfaces.

Dima Sytnik: 13:00 We didn't want to be same. And we just got focused on the eye like in the last 93 years. And most of the damages that we got right now, it's just been released actually, they was in development like for two years because we set the bar quite high for us and they will continue to be improved. Actually. It's just release. I like not always happy with Oak cases, but I know that's, it's all direction and we've got step-by-step most of or tools that right now exist in the [inaudible] will be converted to the AI tools. And but there is this, there is still different tools without the I, it's, and they great, but not all, or not all tools should be based on the eye. But if I can benefit customers to save time on masking or brushing or something like this, that's actually what we're trying to do.

Raymond: 14:00 I see. So AI is, is, is becoming is scanning the photo, becoming aware of what it is looking at and then based on that it makes decisions to help enhance the photo in a way that is pleasing I suppose. Is that, is that

Dima Sytnik: 14:20 Yes. React, right. So they're pretty accurate. So first what we do is like trying to figure out what kind of results photographers will next year we talk with the photographers and see like what the are they are like work clothes, what kind of things actually they do with images, what kind of results they think it's great, what kind of results they think it's not that good. And we're trying to figure out what, what steps can be automated with the I and we use the AI in different steps of this like image I didn't know if workflow and it's side think like AI stuff is not about like just to remove the creativity or like a transform photography for from something else. Actually. It's just the way how to simplify workflows. And actually that's the, you are creator. They'll reverse our creative ever since.

Dima Sytnik: 15:26 Starts with the idea and like if you can achieve this results in simpler way that that's great. And it's like, like, Oh, how do we get ideas from like different old tool lets you purchase simple help of people like complaining that love now doesn't have like smart garage. Let's say we want a smart garage when the smart board, but that's okay. I really appreciated, we still don't have someone who's a lot of tool that people, asking and for me that's, that's completely okay. So I've got a lot of complaints about this and we do research and I say, OK, why doing it smart brush, what do you want to achieve with this? And most of the people said like, we will not do enhanced sky or replaced sky. And we came up first with a Sky enhancement tool you don't into brush and just when one father and son and second to this kind of placement.

Dima Sytnik: 16:12 So when people ask us about share with, trying to ask why, why do you need this? And most cases, a first answer is not actually what people want to achieve. It's just the way they think it will be able to help them achieve result actually. And we want to think deeper and deeper. And we wanted to simplify and automate this process because I think like we want to make broad from the idea to the end result as simple as possible and totally makes sense. Oh, and actually we just get started. And what we have right now, Luminar is just the very beginning. We are working on different things right now and they will be released later on. And not, not, not as like advertisement. But like I think next year we'll bring it with two features as a free updates for Luminar for customers.

Dima Sytnik: 17:13 Because we want to move faster. It was because we want to bring more value and because one to differentiate us from other software interface, we'll be a little bit changed, but the way we think photographers will benefits. That's why we don't want to don't have not one to have any kind of comparison between us and other software. We are different in if people like try and say, Oh we want to find like lights or without subscription or something like this. That's, that's different than not where we go in. And so we wanted to replace all that stuff with a completely different processes. And most cases if, if, if people want to just to escape subscription, they want exactly exact replica of the old workflow and the to use it in the other software, but they don't want to pay some scoop from the arm.

Dima Sytnik: 18:04 And my perspective, a like other software like lie is great piece of software and it's super cheap and it's, it's not that expensive. And and we don't want to implement all the way how people actually edit for this oral goal is to reinvent how people edit photos. We want to make their lives simpler and easier and bring ability to be creatives for much wider audience than actually right now. Because I see a lot of like boring to tutorials who are for hours and hours, how they can achieve some kind of results and people can spend a lot of time learning this and they like a, but I want, I want to bring this like super powers to end customers with the new technologies because I think like new technologists should solve problems, not create them. So for us is not, technology is actually a final result for us. Final result is the great results that people will be able to achieve with the technologist. That that's quite tricky. But I see that we can achieve in doing a lot of different great things here and luminaries it too. You can use it or I mean some tools inside look in our or you can L all the oldest stables, older tools. That's, that's completely okay. That's, that's it's a tool set for creative persons or creative photographers or the next century. That's what you want to build with Luminar.

Raymond: 19:36 Sure, sure. And that, again, that, that totally makes sense. But you brought up two things that I, that I really want to actually brought up. Three things that I really want to get into. The first talking about how you want Luminar to not be in direct competition to other photo editors but be its own entity. Something that doesn't have any competition. So aside from AI or maybe not aside from AI, I mean that's a really big, big selling point, but what makes Luminar different than other photo editors? Like fundamentally [inaudible]

Dima Sytnik: 20:09 So that, that, that, that, that that's quiet a wide question. Yeah. actually there, there is a difference. Where are we now and where we are going actually we are not, not there where we want to be actually. And we don't think you mentioned competition. Actually we don't want to be different just to be different. We just want to focus on the end user needs. And when you think about like why your competitor and over caring about like feature, feature parity or such a things you, you just stuck in that, that kind of a limitations for your brain and you will be just limited by competition. We're thinking about how we can benefit and customers within your thing that we can, can, can produce or core values. Here is a simplicity and a ability to achieve awesome results in a simple way.

Dima Sytnik: 21:10 I prefer something which will be pure and clear and don't have too much different options because in most cases at this option, soon solve with the AI tools. And some people say when like we have two simple for them, that's completely okay. Even we were so, so many. You cater, they say like, I, we sold them an hour and we can use it. Actually we can work with it because it's nothing to learn, I think. Great. So actually we're doing our job really good because I want to create such a candid to you that everybody can use without like spending hours and hours learn in different tutorials. I want to create something that will be very easy, but, but, but very powerful with a high culture results. That's actually our core values. And for sure we think about like a simplification, a use improvement user experience.

Dima Sytnik: 22:12 And we want to simplify and automate as much as possible things that actually people are doing in a seminar. And we do a lot of right now and customer surveys, user researchers, and we introduce some kind of like surveys for our customers so they can say how they use and how would they can then fit in the new technology. So that's that actually for me, it's the just very beginning of the big road and we gonna move this and that's why I'm pretty confident that we will introduce this, do new AI technologies in next year. I know you guys are like very marketing thing, but like weed doesn't got no other great indication of a smart filter that will work differently on each photo. So it's like, you know, how hiring somebody, and sometimes you might say, it's not what I expecting here.

Dima Sytnik: 23:14 Like if you move, for example, like in the classical way structure on the right, we see HDR like result in the, you applied every photo in the batch process, you've got all of them will be over crunch it and like, Oh my gosh, you might like it. But with AI structured it very smart on someone ridges it automatically enhance more detail. But if there is no important detail that can be extracted, the results will be very subtle. Some the people may be a little bit upset, but our goal is like solve problems to make images, high quality, stop people to make different tree team and just, I'm sorry. So that's kind of limitation but it's like a, it's, it's like you hired like professional retoucher and it, and, and, and it will told, you know, no guy, just please stop doing this thing. Make it subtle, make it high quality. You've got more likes even with it's results. So AI sometimes my stop you for doing some things, but again, that's why we use AI. It's not marketing thing. It's it's indication for users that this filters and technologist will decide by their own how they will retire. Just image.

Raymond: 24:29 Yeah. I love how after using Luminar for one thing that you said there, it was very clear how simple the interfaces. And at first I almost like was like waiting for more. At first I was like looking for things, so I was like, well where's this, where's that? Where am I missing things? But as time went on, as I was using the program more and more I realized, Oh I don't actually, you know, need the same tools in the same way that I was before. And the layout that is there is very clean. It's very simple and yet I could still achieve fantastic results. And like you were saying, it saves me time, which is, which is great specifically with this, this whole AI sky replacement, this is one of the coolest features is right. And this is a, I shared a video of me using it on Instagram last week and the response was incredible.

Raymond: 25:19 Like I made a quick poll, like, would you use this? Would you not use this? 90% of users said that they would absolutely use it. You know, having replaced the sky in photos that I've taken before in Photoshop. This, this is something that depending on trees and foliage and stuff could take 20, 30 minutes per image, you know, and then the results look good. But in Luminar 4 I was, I was able to, you know, click AI's got a replacement, I clicked a dramatic sky for it and it was done, you know, two clicks, brand new sky. So for those who are trying to get an idea of what this is, can you share where you got the idea for AI sky replacement what it is and are you supposed to be using it for, for every photo or just a select few.

Dima Sytnik: 26:08 Oh, great. So basically I explained to you how we came up with idea of sky replacement. So we've got a lot of questions about new features and people ask us all the time about smart brush and we figure out that actually they need this smart brush to achieve some kind of results. They don't need smart brows just to heaven. They had been in this smart brush to enhance Chi in most cases and replace sky. So we came up with this new technology was like very complex and it's like, it's, it's more than other technologist. A good thing about this, we finally got it pretty fast and it's all nondestructive so that that's, that's a huge difference. You can change your mind or original pilot's not, not touched actually. And you can change all the adjustments in real time and basically that, that that's, that's a pretty powerful technology and request in styles.

Dima Sytnik: 27:04 Do I just the part of story realizing and working with the transparent and semi transparent objects is actually the, even the biggest part of it. And we just get started and final version we'll have even much more improved technology for [inaudible] placement in which you will be able to convert like daylight photo to the nightlight with the night skies. You can try. I'm not sure actually your, your immersion is what's not able, but we will, we'll be when some night sky so you can play around and create some magical creations that's going to be fine. But that, that's pretty big. And basically you know that that's for every creative person's. I personally love to travel and I have all the different photos. I love photography, landscape, photography, lighting, landscape. But you know, weather is unpredictable sometimes to just climb the mountain time and like and see just pale sky on that like [inaudible] gray sky and I say, Oh my gosh, that's not that good.

Dima Sytnik: 28:09 Or for example, like sometimes your camera has not enough dynamic range and you just get blown out. Sky and even HDR and shadows, color highlights will not help to solve this problem. So for me, it's a great tool to enhance image and improve sky. His story about to use it or not to use, it's up to you. It's a two and everyone can use it and be like, it's inside a, like a personal, like a restriction server, like personal philosophy. If you don't want to replace kind of, not problem at all. But my opinion is like everyone teaching everyone to be, when I gave the grant results, like for example, if you buy a great lens with the bouquets and take a photo actually to teach teaching, no one will see this image in real life because you cheated with the hardware or low welcome exposure for example.

Dima Sytnik: 29:07 It's [inaudible] with the hardware too. And the way is restriction where you like start, shoot and what is the reality. So in most cases it's already there. Even like a Ansel Adams it's very famous photographers, most of the key spots is actually most enhanced Dudgeon burn and he wasn't in like an all processes and it wasn't there for, for a years. I, somebody told me that on the beginning of photography did pose a question to crop or not to grow. So, but it felt like grow up in this like take technology. But right now it's, it's, it's, it's widely acceptable and like say an about scar replacement for example. Yeah, you haven't met sky, but what if you take this guy, this guy, the one that you want to replace with like one hour before? Is it fake or not? People say maybe no that because they location one hour before.

Dima Sytnik: 30:04 What if you take this guy 24 hours that is a pretty car now so that there is no limitation. If you want to be creative person and the result is great, why not? For me, no, I will put people just against kind of placement because it's they sold too much but and low quality skier placement and or goal was to create something which will be as real as possible and it's up to you what kind of sky we want to use. In most cases, if we want to achieve completely real results, you should use Skype roughly from the same period of time. If you take to get a like sunset on satirize, you skies from this timeframe the, the nuance or if it's a daylight thought or use a timeframe from that period of time, yes, you can do crazy things like daylight to my plight. But again, a lot of people who are very, very like, you know, like strict about the quality and they may see some difference or signs that it's changed. But in most cases, if, if your goal to like bring more likeness the ground, nobody will see it.

Raymond: 31:22 I can promise you. Yeah. Yeah. You know what's interesting is having used it, you mentioned like poor sky replacement you know, photos where, where people have just done poor sky replacement. They just take out the sky and then they put in a new sky, different time of day, different, you know, location, just they just look terrible. And yet that's what I was expecting. That's what I was expecting at Luminar 4, but that is not what I got at all. I, I chose a photo that was a of a, of a bride that I had and it was kinda like near sunset ish. But when I clicked on one of the dramatic skies, I think I picked a sunset sky. And what I found was that not only did it do a fantastic job replacing the sky behind, you know, little patches of trees and being able to see behind that, but it changed the rest of the image, like an updated, the rest of the image.

Raymond: 32:15 It was a little bit warmer, there was a little more contrast and suddenly the image that I was looking at looked as if it came out of my camera. It didn't just replace the sky even if it was a different exposure, different contrast, different time of day, but it updated the rest of the image to appear much much more natural. And that is something that I have about because when it comes to AI, there's a, I I kinda also want to talk about privacy, right? When I think AI, and I could be wrong here cause I'm not a chief technical officer like yourself. So I'm hoping that you could help out here. When I think AI, I think big servers, lots of data. When we talk about AI, does this mean that our photos are being uploaded to some cloud somewhere and being analyzed before the decisions are, are, are coming back to us?

Dima Sytnik: 33:07 I am not, no. I actually, we're small company. We don't have a billions at the moment for cloud servers. So we have to be clever and protests. Everything on your local mission? It's the first symbol actually. What are you using at your local [inaudible]? It's pre-trained modals so we train models, we train with like narrow networks and you use it ready to use a technologist and we update them constantly with the software updates. But to train them, yes, we really using the big servers. We collect data we use with the guys who do training. So they do some marketing. So they do some segmentation. We train the AI to, to understand what kind of different transparencies. I would kind of different skies there is what kind of results on the achieve there is looking different neural networks and we use the a hundreds of thousands images actually.

Dima Sytnik: 34:09 Some of them is what a, as data sets from stocks. Some of them don't let it really from internet. Some of them was provided from all our customers or from our photographer that we work in with. Actually, we don't use any of your photos to train all those. We can only ask somebody if they face some problems. So we'll, it will be, they are able to provide us some kinds of images but a local messenger requires just, just actually had to have a like, pre-trained model to work with actually. And that, that that's the person who it's super private and secure for customers. And but the downside of this, you should have like better missions and like somebody might say like a Luminar is like slower than Lightroom. Yes, because it's depends on the eye and move really need a lot of memory, like 600 gigs.

Dima Sytnik: 35:09 So or technical acquirements is much higher than like other software like color or something like this. But in the end of the day you still get the results faster. Like for example, if you do portrait touch, you can synchronize among like whole photo session. Just go and drink tea or coffee or do one. And when you got back, you got the results and it's so like 90 or 70% of people actually you want to want to do, yeah, it's slower. But I think, you know, we still have a lot of room of for improvements and we've working close live with actually info and they really excited about or technologist. So, eh, they, they, they, they need something that can use their hardware as much as possible because they want to build a more powerful medicines. But at the moment most of the software trying to work just in the cloud, so nobody mean like more advanced measures, but will, it will be different kinds of software and the, well, it's computers who get junk at faster, you got the faster resolve.

Dima Sytnik: 36:24 But again, I completely appreciate it. We have some problems with performance and the we will solve them because the quality and the performance is one of, or a major goal for the next quarter after release of lumen are for. And there is a lot of room for improvements even right now even on your local mission. And we can make it much faster. But that's why we don't need like any competition and don't like any comparison because you just can compare the I technologists with the non request seek old one technologist. And the way we actually design Luminar right now, it's actually we clean up all the mess and we prepared to bring much more new add tools there. It may, it may seem like little bit empty, but that's, that's actually what we will gonna do in the future. We want to fill it with awesome creative tools and everyone can benefit from this.

Raymond: 37:29 So just to clarify, when it comes to the privacy of the photos that we have on our computers, our photos are not being uploaded and Luminar 4 is making these AI decisions based on hundreds of thousands of photos that you have analyzed on your end made decisions and then put it in the software itself so that when it comes to a computer, nothing gets uploaded. It just makes that decision right there on the computer. It doesn't go anywhere.

Dima Sytnik: 38:00 Absolutely. Right. That's true.

Raymond: 38:03 That's, that's genius. That is really smart. And as you said earlier, you know, there have been complaints about you know, Luminar for seeming to be slow. And I think at first I felt the same way. Like, Oh, this is, this is a little slow, but as you just said right there for the results that you're getting, it's still faster to wait that extra half second than it would be to, you know, change four or five more sliders and go into a tone curve or something within, you know, another editing program. It's still faster to wait for this, for Luminar 4 to, to finish what it's doing and and fix it. So maybe it's just a perception thing cause obviously more is going on in the background than it is with with other image editing software. So that's, that's really interesting and a good way to look at it because again, I, I really think that the, the, the results that came out of the images that I put in were fantastic and in very few clicks it was eye opening and it was very, very fun just to, just to play around with.

Raymond: 39:06 And one of the photos that I was working on was a, a portrait because obviously, you know, as replacement is gonna be great for landscapes, it's gonna be great for some environmental photos even at weddings. But I also wanted to test portraits. Portraits are very important to a lot of photographers. Not just wedding photographers, engagement, photographers, fashion photographers. The portraits kind of require a different skillset. So I know that Luminar 4 is using AI to help in the process of working on portraits as well. So what are some common issues that most photographers face when it comes to portraits and what needs worked on in the editing side?

Dima Sytnik: 39:46 So basically with the portrait tools we can use to gauge how portrait photographers actually using their tools to achieve results and what they paint that should, what kind of result they appreciate to be a great results. So we, we get focused on this and there's still call, we'll get rid of all tools like do automate to manually a big I smile face and never seen. So I a solved problem of phase selection and the moment it got the automatically with the texts all human skin because some of like all the old very old software, they just, when they say about skill enhancement they mean just the face actually the text phase and hence fates and the rest of the body can be significantly different from old. And then he and I that that's issued a tie solve a lot of time and then people wasn't happy with and actually yeah I watched them article, see like all old skin on different trays, different like colored tones.

Dima Sytnik: 40:55 And a apply enhancement on it to this area. And the world goal was to Greg something which can produce great results and, and, and, and keep human force, remove all old, like bigger problems or dark areas under the scheme, but make skin much better. And there is amount slider and mostly for tastes like actually the father you will, they're more fled skin, you God and that you should stop where you think it's, it's your like a preferable result and [inaudible] does everything else. And there's a UI like I can say Aetna or blemishes removal. So actually instead of using erase tool Clements column and STEM to AI, automatically analyze and then Andrew do it for you. Actually that's the perceptible. And but we appreciate, we still learn in the eyes. So we're still, we're still try to teach AI work better and that we get in a lot of different choirs how we can improve it.

Dima Sytnik: 42:02 And we does get started actually w w w right now we have a lot of really great positive results, but there is still some scarf cases and we strongly against any mental owl fine tune for AI or goal. If you don't happy with results, you should send us English and we will try night work by the this case particular. So it's, I, you know, nobody is perfect and by we are not perfect sometimes and we will go in and make it smarter and smarter and smarter. And that's, that's, that's the way, you know, it's like, like I never had the exchangeable battery, but in general it makes your life a little bit easier to care about like third party batteries, just more of the new replace your phone. That's super simple. And this kind of simplicity actually is, is our core values. So what make something to just work and and there's a portrait enhancer.

Dima Sytnik: 43:04 So that's that. That was pretty tricky to create something which can produce the way how professional photographers those phases we don't want to get and build something that will produce very like, like funny or cheesy effects. Like a lot of mobile apps extra right now is doing. They, they, they, they produced some kind of results that you can just get smile on it. It's not a high quote than professional results. And we've, we, we made this portrayed enhancer and actually this technologist pretty smart. So you don't care about Moskin for phase four. Like I's for April's, it doesn't pencil out magically and for us was really critical to preserve all the spores and, and hair, even small one on your face and produced something which will be very close to the professional retouch. And with this sliders, you can never go like too much.

Dima Sytnik: 44:09 Everything is in the ranges that like professionals will allow an appreciate, but it's not because they are professionals. They have some kind of taste sometimes. And like, we want to stay, we want to see results that can be accepted by our magazines or high-quality studios. Certainly can play around this and get on the result that you will be pleased with. And a that's like, or core values is not just to bring AI technologies on the table but produce something great with it and automate process of a scheme and price retouching and have all of much more other great things that we will bring in to this area. Yes. In general, you know, sometimes somebody say they eliminate, it doesn't matter. It doesn't have days and days, but we don't have this for reason. I think not having a feature is much better than heaven, badly implemented or have old fashioned feature.

Dima Sytnik: 45:11 So yes, it's, it took us much longer time than just to cook it somebody else's solution. But at the moment right now, all the solution that exists on the market actually wasn't very late, invented like around 20 years ago. So it is, and then the on the same, the same solution moves from one software to another to another to another. And they just wrap it in addition user interfaces, but use even the same like marketing with the Tyson and right now like Oh my gosh, so then there's like new money maybe trained or 40 or 50. My Jennifer, they wired the same. So oral goal is to change the way how you edit images and we're maybe not so fast with it but you know, all the bunch of things requires much more time. But at the end result it's much better than just using the old way to solve problems.

Raymond: 46:03 Of course, of course. And I realized now that that as we've been talking about Luminar 4 and AI, AI is kind of like has this a stamp on it as if like you just bring it in and it's done. But Luminar 4 isn't like that. Now while you can use obviously AI to say enhance the sky or or or use it to enhance a portrait, there is still flexibility, right? Like you can control how much yeah, I guess how far AI takes it in a certain direction. It's not like you just upload the photo AI takes over and then there's nothing that you can do. Correct.

Dima Sytnik: 46:39 Yes. Because you know right now everyone is artist I think and the photography is simplest form of art. It's very hard to learn how to pay or play music, but everyone can take photos. But if you take a look at the tutorials, there is so beauty tutorials on how to take photos or handle camera and so many tutorials with retouching and a lot of people like to say, okay, I'll just take photo and retouching and it's not for me that's complex. Even the sport can like harm somebody's ears. So all goal is to bring very simple tools to create awesome photography, images and photos and we call this approach. As I told you before, like a content aware image editing. We want to build tool where you can image and say, okay, I have a problem with the face. There is a two for phase, I have a problem with the sky. There is a two, four sky on her place. Okay. That's, that's the new Skype and the in which way stuff. Thinking about others occurs, flex White's, there is new layer change mode overlay. No, no, no, no. That's, that's not our way. Yeah, we have layers for sure. But or goal for future is to bring new tools that come to change the way how you do your photo editing and image editing.

Raymond: 48:00 I love it. And it's so, it's just so different. It feels refreshing, which is really fun because you know, as, as having been in photography for, you know, 15 years now sometimes it feels as if things can get a bit stale and to see something new come along is really, is really fun. It's refreshing. It's, it's, it's rejuvenating. So I've, I've been having a blast playing around with it. And I know that the listeners are going to enjoy it as well. In fact, I made a kind of a tutorial for using Luminar 4 that. I will post in the show notes of this episode if anybody wants to check it out and some of the key features that's going to be the place to find that. It's really, really interesting stuff. So before I let you go, can you share with me real quick? Who is Luminar perfect for? Is it perfect for every photographer? Is it perfect for just a few photographers who is Lumina are perfect for

Dima Sytnik: 48:56 Actually or goal as a company actually is to create best software for people who are actually interested in photo editing. And we call them artists. Like Photo artists, they actually not edit just photos to achieve like, okay, result to be posted somewhere. But they really want to express themselves as artists to create something that they can be proud of and, or like, or, or, or biggest mission is to make them happy. We don't want to do the software on, to create tools that will make them happy. And when they happy, we're happy to actually. So that's, and the item ologists is the way how we make them happy. And we, we decided how, the ways, how we want to make them happy. There is a Jew, right? Like, eh, things that we wanna do with Luminar.

Dima Sytnik: 49:55 Our first is to bring superpowers for people who wanted their photos, like sky replacement. It was very complex. It's existing on the market a long time ago, even maybe from York times, but we wouldn't do make it super simple. Second thing is new tools for creativity. People even may or may not ask, but we will bring them new cool tools so they can express themselves as artists in a simpler way. And third thing is a hum to use. I think software should be fun to use right now. We on the track and we want to make something which people will love. Just just to use, just, just to, to browse. We, I, I had features I love when people just having fun with software and adjustment preferences did, pink is not the way how you will enjoy software. So will be much more awesome tools and much more like final things to this officer. Don't make it less formal to be your like photography friend w on which you can rely. And we just think in this way and we don't think about like any competition thing. Only about how we can benefit or customers and photographers around the world.

Raymond: 51:10 That's perfect. That is the perfect way to, to, to wrap up this this interview right here. DEMA before I let you know, before I let you go, rather, can you let the listeners know where they can find more about you or Luminar online?

Dima Sytnik: 51:26 Actually they can visit our website or, or phrase grow, but that's super simple. Over websites, Skylum.com and they can find all information. Oh, just like search for Skylum or Luminar and the Facebook and they get all different informations. I have like very small. My Instagram, it's called like too many ways, but it's really rare updated because I really super busy, but that's just my personal small Instagram channel. But then, you know, I'm, I'm like, you know, I can say like there is a program like Shoemaker without shoes. The same for me. Like, I'm working on the tools, but I not benefit because I really had this sky placement and I get amazing results and I thought, Oh, now I can make my Instagram channel super popular. Now I can change all of my photos, which is boring to amaze and I can get like sun set on from Mars. I can, I can add great things that actually [inaudible] by the way, a sky replacement is really awesome. [inaudible] You can use, not just replace sky, but to change your image completely. If you want, I can share your some fun thing that we made here in skylum and we just had build them jugs about what actually people can do in future with sky replacement.

Raymond: 52:58 Oh man. I would love to see that. I bet the the opportunity is or the just all the, you know, things that you could do with it would would be fantastic. So. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well Dima again, thank you so much for coming on, sharing everything that you did and giving us a little peek behind the curtain as far as what the future of editing is going to look like. So again, thank you so much and I hope to talk to you soon.

Dima Sytnik: 53:25 Thank you so much to the pleasure to talk with you. Thank you for inviting me. [inaudible] It was great. And I hope your listeners, we'll try Luminar and share their opinion how we can improve it because a, it's on the way how you can, the better it's too see, not just, the positive side, but the negative side and listen to customers what they need, what they want to achieve. And I really glad we'll be glad to hear any, even even in file, doesn't dreams maybe who knows? We can [inaudible] true. The real,

Raymond: 54:01 You know, one thing a is clear to me after that interview you know, it at least to me it's that AI is not going to remove you or me as the photographer out of the equation, you know, because especially especially in the edit, I think AI is, is so new that we have a lot of concerns about it. We don't know where it's going and it seems so powerful that you know, many think that AI is just going to replace all of us and that's not what's going on here. AI is simply being used as another tool that honestly I'm excited to have. I'm really excited to have. My biggest takeaway was that, you know, you, you know, just like what Dima said is that you can cheat with hardware too. I loved hearing how photographers back in the day used to think or used to say rather that cropping was cheating.

Raymond: 54:53 Cropping your photo was cheating. Like it's kind of the same. I get it. If it didn't come out of camera that way, then you know, it's cheating. But at the same time is off camera flash cheating is using a neutral density filter to add motion to a stream cheating. It's not. These things are just simply a tool and a very powerful tool at that. So as I said earlier, I got something special for you and Dima and the whole Skylum team's special shout out to Lillia and Jane for their help. They have created a special offer for you, the beautiful listeners of the beginner photography podcast. If you want to try out Luminar which again is a one time payment, no monthly subscription, they hook you all up with a $10 off coupon for a win. Actually live in our four was released today. If you're listening to this.

Raymond: 55:48 So just use the code B P P at checkout and that will make the price again even lower, which is a no brainer. If you ask me again, I've, I've had time to play with this and this is powerful, powerful software and I almost can't believe how cheap it already is. So if you want to check it out, you don't want a monthly subscription. Definitely. I posted a link in the show notes of this episode and to be completely transparent, it is an affiliate link, which means that I will receive a commission if you decide to purchase through the link, which is at no additional charge to you, but you will receive all of my appreciation. So again, that link is in the show notes and the code for $10 off is B P P at checkout. That is BPP for beginner photography podcast.

Raymond: 56:39 If you didn't pick that up, but you're all very smart than I know that you did. So check out the show notes. If you're in Apple podcasts, you just swipe up, there's a link right there. Click that link and then use a code BPP and checkout for $10 off. So that isn't, I think that there's going to be a lot of discussion about this in the beginner photography podcast Facebook group. And honestly, I'm really excited to hear your thoughts as this is, this is a good one. This is, this is a good one. So until next week, I want you to get out, keep shooting, stay safe, and focus on yourself, love you all.

Outro: 57:14 If you enjoy today's podcast, please leave us a review in iTunes or your favorite podcast player and continue the conversation with Raymond and other listeners of the podcast by joining the beginner photography podcast Facebook group today. Thank you. We'll see you again next week.