Mary Fisk Taylor is a Richmond Va fine art Portrait photographer and co host of the Get your Shoot Together podcast. Today Im excited to talk about sifting through the noise in this busy world of many photographers.

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In This Episode You'll Learn:

• How Mary got her start in photography

• What Mary struggled with most when learning photography

• As a long time member of the PPA her views on how the industry has changed the most

• How Mary has been able to keep up and sift through the noise of other photographers

• as adversity, Mary has to overcome to be the powerhouse she is today

• What misconception most people would be surprised to learn about being a photographer for 20 years

• As a print competition judge, one thing that stands out to her immediately as an amateur photo

Premium Members Also Learn:

• Creating email campaigns for photographers

• how to use your marketing message

• Great third party marketing idea for family photographers

• Why Mary thinks so many photographers fail to break past that $75 starting price point

Resources:

• Richmond Va fine art Portrait photographer Mary Fisk-Taylors website

• Get your Shoot Together Podcast

Did you enjoy this episode? Check out more recent interviews with other great guests!

Full Episode Transcription:

Disclaimer: The transcript was transcribed electronically by Temi.com and may contain errors that do not reflect accurately what the speaker said. Because of this, please do not quote this automated transcript.

Raymond: 00:00 Today's guest is Mary Fisk Taylor, a Richmond, Virginia fine art portrait photographer who co-hosts the get your shot together podcast today. I'm really excited to chat with her about sifting through or I'm sorry, yes, sifting through. I almost said shifting through the noise, sifting through the noise in this world of a, of the just full of of photographers. So Mary, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 00:25 Oh my gosh, thank you so much. I was honored when you asked. This is amazing. I'm happy to be here.

Raymond: 00:30 This is one of these things that I love about, you know, obviously our industry about photography. Just being able to meet with so many people. I had seen you speak at imaging USA. We went down there in in Nashville in the end of January. And so for those who haven't been before you, you, you get like a, a schedule of everybody who's speaking and there's a brief little description of what it is that they're going to be speaking about. And when I saw the sifting through the noise I was intrigued obviously is there are just many photographers and I know that a lot of beginners are kind of worried about the the amount of, you know, quote unquote competition that's out there. So I read more and I thought, okay, I'm going to sit in on this class. And I sat in and it was nothing of what I expected.

Raymond: 01:17 It wasn't just like you got to get out there and do better than everybody. It was, it was so much more than, than being personally focused and it was still, there was still a community focus around it, but instead of being better than everybody else, it was like just love on your clients. And there was so much in there that I think it's a lost in this photography community that again, I'm so excited to chat to you about today and kind of dive deeper into some of that. But before we do, before we get started on any of that, can you share with me how you got started in photography? Like how this whole thing got started?

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 01:51 Wow. That's a big, that's a great question. And it's funny cause I've been doing this for a while and you know, teaching and sharing it, you know, I mean now things have changed so much. I get to sit here in my office and share and, and give back. But back in the day, cause I've been doing this for 26 years. The, you know, it was, it was a lot harder and you had to get out and go to events and share and speak. And I'm here because so many people did that for me. So let me just start with, first of all, this was all given to me in some form or another. Maybe I put my thumbprint on it, but I didn't invent anything. So I actually got married to my amazing husband and I'm still married. We have two awesome kiddos that I got married and I had looked for a photographer and I found this awesome photographer named Jamie Hayes.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 02:37 He's my business partner here in Richmond. And I, he, he photographed my bridal portraits, which is a big thing for us here in the South. And you know, all these other things and he just did such a great job and I've always loved photography. I was involved with yearbook photography and in college I always thought it was a one taking all the pictures and I loved photography but I, you know, I'm a business person and I was working in a law office and you know, finishing up school and thought I would go a different route. And when I had my daughter, Alexandra, I said, Oh I've got to find that photographer because he was so great. He needs to photograph this beautiful angel baby that I just, you know, my sweet Alex and I started taking Alexson and one thing led to another and I'd taken some time off from work from my career and he needed help.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 03:27 He just opened his studio, he'd gone out on his own and I started helping part time, just like back in the day, this is film obviously know stuffing proof books and you know, filing and just doing little things just to get out of the house a little bit. Cause I was going a little stir crazy being a stay at home mom. And then I started photographing and then within a year we were full business partners and I just never looked back. I went to my first imaging USA probably 24 years ago and I locked, looked around and saw all these, you know, awards and metals and all these things that we have in our industry. And I thought, I found a place, this is where I want to be. And fast forward here I am still in it and you know, ticking off all the boxes and, and, and still, you know, gratefully very successful in professional photography. So

Raymond: 04:17 Yeah. Yeah. That's incredible. That's what an unconventional Ben to get started in. So let me just clarify. You were working in law, you had Alex and you thought to yourself, you know what? I'm going to take a break, we gotta take a break.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 04:34 You know, there's these amazing people that are built to be stay at home parents. I'm not one of those. So I felt so, and you know, you're looking 24 years ago, so much. I felt so shameful about it and my sister is like an amazing stay at home mom and crafty, not my lane, you know. And so I just thought, well, I'll just go a few hours a week part time. And this dude obviously needs help because he opened the doors and was, he's incredibly talented. He's a lifelong photographer. All he ever wanted to be saved. His mom's ASEN SNH green stamps to buy his first like Kodak one 10, you know, so if anybody even knows what that is. And I just wanted to do something outside of the house and then I loved the business part of it. I only thought I'd ever be a part of the business behind the scenes cause this is my thing.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 05:26 That's always been my thing. And then the creative bug kind of Bitney and I was like, well, I do love photography and Jamie, like you have pictures all over your house, you're always taking pictures. And so I, you know, took all the classes and learned, you know, how to be better at it and be more, maybe a little more spray, a little more structure into my photography and you know, mastered that to an extent. But when the day is done, I just loved the business of photography. I really do. That's my, that's my jam.

Raymond: 05:54 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. I, I too was really into, you know, growing up you know, yearbook, I was in yearbook as well and, and going out and taking photos when you're in high school, when you're in middle school is very different than working in capturing photos in a professional sense. So when you had decided, you know what, I'm going to do this professionally and I'm going to put in the work, and then you started educating yourself on the technical aspects of photography. What'd you find was, was the hardest part for you to either understand or fully grasp?

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 06:25 You know, for me I cannot pick up my camera or going into a session without both sides of my brain working because as much as I try, and I did, actually I'm getting a little better. But when I first started I was, I w I couldn't just focus on the creativity. I was also thinking, how am I going to sell it? What's going to look the best in their home? Are they going to buy it? So I had, I had this right brain left brain thing just going, so trying to make one side be a little bit quiet so I could just concentrate on the creativity was really hard for me. Does that make sense? Like I, I couldn't just photograph this beautiful child or family or, or wedding. I actually started mostly photographing, you know, weddings. I was designing the wedding album in my head as I was photographing it. I just really needed to quiet that side of my brain a little bit and focus on the creativity. So that was probably my biggest struggle. And to this day, I still struggle with that

Raymond: 07:32 To how do you overcome something like that because it makes sense from a business perspective. Like that sounds great. But being behind the camera, how, how, how do you overcome something like that?

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 07:43 You do well, do you do it by just talking yourself off the ledge kind of thing? Like, and I, this is kind of goes that sifting through the noise noise in your brain noise. So whenever, no, the noise is, we all have noise in our life, right? Especially today more than ever. And you know, just kind of kind of taking that, you know, three deep breaths and just, you know, kind of talking myself into this is where you're going, let's go into this space. You've got this, you can put this aside for a minute and whether you want to talk it about it as meditation or just that moment of quiet, but just focusing. So with that being said, it's very hard for me to go. For example, if I were to jump off this podcast right now and then she'd have to rush into a session, I probably wouldn't be as prepared.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 08:28 So allowing myself that little bit of extra space and time to just get centered and ready for what was coming and, but I kind of have to have this conversation with myself, my favorite person to talk to. Cause I always listen. Just have this conversation with myself that this is where we're going to go right now and you can let that go for now. It's going to be okay. And I think, you know, growing up, I never grew up. I grew up, you know, like probably most people and you know, things are hard and things are challenging and everything. So letting go of that anxiety and letting go of that, what if, and I need, you know, just being okay with it and getting into that process. And I don't always succeed. I try very hard, but that's all I can do. I don't have any other really great magic potion or solution, but just trust in yourself. Believe in yourself and give yourself, if it's only five minutes, just to get ready for, to give that client to give that person the best experience and the best of you.

Raymond: 09:28 You know, I've talked with a lot of photographers on this podcast and that's one of those things that I think I think is, is underlying. Like a lot of people also need that but nobody's ever explained it as well. You have right there and it's interesting cause as you were saying that I was thinking about myself. Like whenever I go to weddings and I tell people still to this day, I've been shooting, you know, almost 10 years and it's like before a wedding I just get butterflies in my stomach and I sit there in my car and I'm thinking to myself, today's the day they're going to find out I'm a fraud. Like today is going to happen. But just giving yourself that five minutes and be like, okay, you know, this is going to be the schedule of the day. Okay. I kind of understand where I'm going to be for these situations. And then letting yourself go with it from there really does help. Really.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 10:10 It does. I, whatever it is, some people have it, maybe it's a song or something you read or something you do, but just, I mean, the thing that I can tell, I repeat to myself a lot is they hired you, they chose you. No one in the world can do what you do. Like no one has my eye, my sense of timing as good or bad as it is, you know, you think it is or whatever. They loved it. They loved it enough to give me money for it. So let that be your guide and just go with that. And you know, a wedding is, you know, once you get out of the car and you start, you don't even, I don't have to think about it again. Nope. You know, that's the nice thing about weddings. It's busy and it's constant. So that keeps me in that flow.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 10:53 You know, when you're working in your studio maybe you are running between a sales session or consultation or a session, you know, you're back and forth so that I have to continue re continually readjust back into a space. If I go into the sales room, I try very hard to schedule my, my life, my days. I'm a big scheduler. I'm a big planner and and have my days where I only have sessions or I only have consults or only have so, or I just have an office day where I can do things like this or do my marketing or planning. But that doesn't always happen. Sometimes we have to double up sometimes, you know, we have to punt. So if I do that, then I have to readjust more. But weddings are a little bit easier, I think for me to stay in that space than bouncing around in my studio.

Raymond: 11:39 Yeah. Like you said, it's just one thing that you got to focus on. Like you got one job that day, essentially. Yeah. Yeah. I can, I can attest to that as well. So I'm interested now that now that we kind of got an insight into your beginnings, you know, you've been shooting for, you know, 24 years, like you said, long time you've been to PPA or you've been a part of PPA and going to imaging for you know, more than two decades. So in that time, having seen that transition from film to digital, aside from that, what do you think, or how do you think the industry has evolved the most in that time?

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 12:12 Oh messaging and marketing. I mean, yeah, digital was huge and we went through the digital transition and I thought that was hard. That is nothing, nothing that was a walk in the park compared to shifting from what I'll refer to or think about as traditional or classic marketing into digital marketing, social media, marketing. You know, let's, let's like think back, you know, so many years ago to create a brochure, I had to go through all my negatives, pick my images. You would do a huge layout. You would send it to a printer, they would give you a blue line. You would have to get a minimum of like 10,000 copies of something, right. To make it remotely affordable. It would take weeks and weeks and weeks to get a brochure or a stock card or anything. Now, Oh I think I'll do this, but you know, we jump online, we've grabbed the dah, dah, dah, that put it together.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 13:09 There's like 3 million templates and every lab and printer across the country and in two days you have marketing pieces. So that's huge and that's great. That's convenient. But it's the, it's the social media, it's the digital marketing that I had to really, I had to either decide to get in, get on, get in, get in line and get on board or probably fail because you know, trying to interrupt a pattern on anybody's online experience right now or get through, get your email through or you know, make any type of a dent in social media. Wow. That is a con, you know, at my, I'm 51 so you know, I'm not completely ignorant about it, but it was a major learning curve for me because when I started there were very few of us cause we all photographed the film. We were medium format or 35 millimeter was just making it seem like coming into Vogue and wedding photography. We never use that in our studio know everything was on Mer Veronica or hostile blog. And you didn't ha you could just kind of drop your camera and get business. You know, there was just, you know, there wasn't a lot and then the market is much more flooded and there's way more choices, which is fine cause I believe in competition and that's great. But you know, understanding how to get people's attention became a very big deal for me. You know? So that's the biggest change for me as a photography studio owner and photographer.

Raymond: 14:39 So like you said, you know, 20 years ago you could show up like, Hey guess what? Camera meaning format. Like we're good here, I know what it is that I'm doing. And people would just come to you knowing that they don't know how to work a camera. You have to be the professional. And now we're at this point to where literally anybody can get, I mean, 12 year old kids can go to target and buy themselves a DSLR if they wanted to. So now that everybody has a camera, as you said, there's a lot more w I guess for lack of a better term noise. Right. So how in that time did you figure out as, as, as the noise grew, how did you figure out how to, how to sift through it and make your Mark?

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 15:19 Yeah, that's a great question. And it took me a while. It really did. I, I F I floundered for a while trying to figure it out because you go, you become, you get digital, you have digital, you know, the digital cameras and that option. And then you have this free, and I'm using air quotes, which is weird to do on a podcast because you can't see me doing that. But you get this free Avenue of marketing, or at least that's the biblical goods we sell ourselves. So you have an email, right? So we have all these opportunities and you think, Oh, I'll just do this. And you just start kind of doing what everybody else is doing. Well, nobody notices what's the same. We notice what is different. So what I realized, and as you may or may not know, I'm a huge Donald Miller StoryBrand girl.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 16:04 Like I'm a big fan and I read that book many, many years ago and I'd started doing it beforehand, but that really drove it home for me. The reason we continue to be successful and still produce very well in our studio is what I realized is we had to a stay true to exactly what we did with film. Like we tried to w w about two years into digital, I realized, wait a minute, just rewind and do everything the way you did with film. You just don't no longer have the film, but don't, don't overshoot. Don't go out and do everything that comes down the pipe just cause she can don't mess with your brand. Stay true to what we've always done. Which we P we sell mostly large wall portrait installations. We do a lot of brush oil and now painter work. And then some, you know, higher end weddings.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 16:51 That's, that's what we do. We kind of got digital cameras and thought we would just do everything. Yeah. We actually at one point picked up a school like what were we thinking? That's just not who we are. Like we were terrible because we wanted to pose every single child. Let's give him a butterfly. Like, no, let's do you know, like it's like this is a school picture. This is not our lane. Get out of that. Get back in our lane and making sure that everything I show, every email I send, every campaign I create is on brand. And for me that's showing us either creating wall portraits in you know communicating or working with clients, installing client work and showing products, not just showing pretty digital picture after pretty digital picture after pretty digital picture. If we do that as a professional photographer in what we do, that's what they see all day long on their iPhone or their Android or whatever, or their computer.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 17:42 If I'm showing us installing a beautiful 30 by 40 brush oil, family portrait in our living room, people, Oh wait, that's different. So my best advice is show what you do, show what you want to sell. Don't just fall into, because it's easy. Oh, I just shot this, I'm gonna, you know, wifi it to my camera and just push it out on social media. Have a, make sure it's incredibly intentional and there's amazing content behind it because people don't know what's different anymore. They can look at pretty pictures all day long. So that's what I had to stop doing. And that's probably the biggest mistake I made in the beginning of all of this.

Raymond: 18:21 So I love that. Great, great story. And if anybody's listening, I don't know if you heard, but Donald Miller did a podcast with Andrew homage of the PhotoBiz exposed podcast, which was all focused around photography, which was really, really interesting to to listen to. And what what came through for me, obviously, you know, the power of a story is really important, but I think when we first get started, maybe we don't know what that story is yet. Right? We don't know what it is that is incredibly important to us. Did you always know from the beginning or is that something that evolved with you as well?

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 18:54 I didn't, I knew it, but I didn't know it. So until I really sat down and, and I, I loved it so much, I went, I'm a, I'm a certified guide with, with Donald. Like I did the whole thing, like I'm all in with this. And that's, I love education anyway. So it's probably no surprise to people who know me that I did that, but I'm really a believer in it. And you know, I knew it, but I didn't know it until I really had to break it down. And the whole idea of a story. I think the word story is a big word and maybe we don't understand. The whole idea of a story for us as small business owners is opening a story loop and inviting people in and not because we're the know-it-alls, but because we're going to guide you and we're going to solve a problem for you.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 19:35 That's when people get involved in a story, they get involved. If something catches their eye and they're like, Ooh, if I don't do this, I'm going to miss out. Miss this milestone moment missed his opportunity, right? That's when they go, Oh, I should probably engage with that. That's how you get their attention and then it's just my job to guide them, let them be the hero, let them stand out, let them shine. It's not about me, it's about them because no one wants to hear about me. Right? I mean, hopefully somebody's podcasting, but as our business owner, people want to, they got to see themselves in the story. So if you don't open a story of loop that they can relate to where they can see themselves in, or that it's solving a problem that they may or may not know they have, it's not going to make a difference. And that's what StoryBrand really is in my opinion. Or that's what it is for me. And I knew that, but I didn't know it. You know what I'm saying? Like I didn't, I had to kind of be spelled out and I went, Oh, okay. Now yes, I see that. And that was huge. That was a paradigm shift for us as a small business owner. Major

Raymond: 20:41 W would you suggest if, if somebody still struggling to try to figure out maybe what is the story that they're trying to tell to still even go forward with StoryBrand? Or is that, or is that the book?

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 20:54 I read the book. Yeah, I read the book. Go online. It's a free little it's a free exercise that they offer online that you can do. And just start filling it out. We all, I think as, as professional photographers, the story we're trying to tell is as my friend Jeff would say, we're freezing time, we're capturing time in whatever way that is. Your style may be completely different from mine and so on and so on and so on. But all of us, I think when the day is done would say my goal is to get my camera, which is just the instrument I happen to use and freeze these moments so that you never look back and regret not having them. And not only that, we want you to, for me it goes a little further. Cause for me it's, I want them printed and I want them proudly displayed and gracing the interiors of your home. And I want your children to look at them and feel pride because they see how much you love them and all of that stuff. Maybe for you it's different, but all of us wouldn't you maybe, I don't know. Do you agree? Is we're just trying to freeze time cause we had no control over it any other way

Raymond: 22:04 It's going to happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So let's talk a little bit more about sifting through this noise. Do you think, do you think that simply having that as your message of, Hey look, I'm just trying to freeze time here is enough. It doesn't need to go deeper than that or how do you put your own personal spin on that to make your business stand?

Speaker 3: 22:24 You are listening to the free version of the beginner photography podcast where each week you learn how world-class photographers see and capture the world around them. If you want to hear the extended interview with their best business tips to learn how to make money with your camera and then become a premium member today by heading over to beginner photography, podcast.com and click the premium membership button to join now.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 22:51 Okay.

Raymond: 22:52 If it's clear to me that the venue are living, breathing proof of a, of this mindset right, of, of doing this yourself. And it is something that a lot of people struggle with. You're absolutely right and just understanding then unfortunately there is no magic pill. I think [inaudible] I think is part of the problem. And as you said, like we have to understand the real power of our photography. As you said, the, the, the photographers who once they figured that out, then they soar is just, it's just proof to that. And I want to share a quick little anecdote real quick with you because it just reminded me of this and that is a few years ago there was a couple here locally who they got married six or seven years ago I suppose. And their photographer just like skipped town right after they got married.

Raymond: 23:40 So they never ever got their wedding photos and every year on their anniversary it was very tough for them because, you know, they ended up posting on Facebook like still all these years, no wedding photos. They ended up moving to New York, which was crazy. This photographer well on the fifth anniversary of their wedding her grandfather who was the one who walked her down the aisle had passed away just weeks before and made it like expecially hard. And she's like, we told the photographer that that's like the only photo that we wanted. And we got none of those. Well, my wife is a, a is a friend of theirs. So she's like, Hey, you should reach out and like do something nice for them. And I was like, that's a great idea. So just in getting ready for this, just in talking with her to hear how much pain it caused her and she didn't lose the memories of her wedding.

Raymond: 24:28 She like, she didn't lose those, but there was a physical copy. There's something about having that physical copy of looking at her wedding date that she no longer has that makes it painful. And regardless of whether or not she doesn't have the memory, she still doesn't have that photograph that she can look at. And remember that moment of being with her grandfather. And for me, like a light bulb went off at that moment. Like, wow, this is extremely powerful. And we as photographers do not take this seriously. We look at this as if it's just a tool, like we look at this camera, all that I got to do is set these settings, snap the photo, you know, and then we're set. That's all that we got to do. But there's so much of an emotional tie to photography. And I really, I just want to say thank you for, for sharing. Your insight there when it comes to pricing because it is very difficult. And coming up with that mindset is, is wonderful. One more time. Can you share the name of that book for me? It was just called mine.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 25:22 Yeah, it's Carol Dweck, DW, E. C. K. It's been rewritten many times. It's been revised over the years cause it's been around for a while. But it's a mindset. Carol Dweck, DWE C K if you look her up, it's, it's, it'll come right up. It's amazing book. There's amazing exercises about it online. I make no money off any of these books. I recommend. I just loved them so much and they've given me so much. And as you know, and I talked about 60, the noise, it's, it's that type of education that I've really relied on heavily. These people are way smarter than me, so I like, I follow their lead and, and I hopefully make the best choices. I can, but yeah. Thank you, sir.

Raymond: 25:59 Of course, I'm going to link to that in the show notes as well because I'm sure that there are people out there who could, who could really benefit from something like that. So again, thank you. Sure. Next I want to know for somebody who's been in this industry for, for, you know, two plus decades what do you think is perhaps a misconception or something that most people would be surprised to find out about being a photographer today versus 20 years ago?

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 26:31 Yeah, no. Okay. So, I don't know if this, you don't have an agenda. So I would say, I don't know if this is the answer you're looking for, but I know that you don't even have a clue what I'm going to say. So I know that that's not even a remotely a good answer. But let me tell you this, I came into this industry when it was very much not a lot of women in it. There were some amazing women and it did not let me, I mean, amazing women that were my mentors. Helen, Nancy and Monte, the people that Marvel Nelson maybe that you guys may or no may or not know, but they were Joe at Joyce Wilson. Just phenomenal. But it was very male dominated and I came into it and I never thought, I didn't believe I didn't have that mindset and I didn't believe I could

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 27:20 Much. I, as a matter of fact, one of the first conventions I went to, I said to some a gentleman, I'll call him that and I said, Oh, maybe one day I could volunteer and help out at the state level or maybe I could be on PPA council or something. Cause I had this, you know, political background. That was my, my jam when I was in college and grad school, I'm MBA, like I, I loved all that stuff. And he went, you'll never be that. And I just kinda took that as well. He's a very respected man and that's probably the way it is. And then I kinda got mad and then I got a little matter and then I just moved along. And you know what? I just started volunteering and giving to this industry, like giving this podcast today. But back then it was maybe working on a committee or volunteering on a PPA committee or getting out in and doing a little local photo class for people or you know, going into big brothers, big sisters or whatever it is. Just giving back to this industry and things changed and I got to be friends. And then I started teaching and you know, I'm on the PPA board of directors now. I'll be PPA president next year and I've ticked all those boxes. But

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 28:34 The change for me, and I hope for anybody that hears this, is don't let anybody tell you you can't. You can't charge this. You can't be this. You can't do that. Because I'll tell you what, as Mary FIS Taylor is sitting here right now who grew up with a single mom, and I lost my dad when I was very young and no silver spoons around my household and you know, and persevered and persevered. I sit here today and tell you that, you know, my husband and I have built a beautiful life together, but professional photography has been a big part of that. It's allowed me to be a part of that family, give and be a part of my kids' lives and provide them a really great life and not have to worry the way I did. And I can be a PPA counselor or I can be whatever I want. So that's been the biggest change for me. If I want to look at 24 years, a pivotal moment for me was the day that I decided that man was not right. And I hope that if any of you guys have been told no or you can't, whether it's your pricing or be a photographer or you can't, you know, get this degree or do this or that, I hope you tell them and show them that they're absolutely wrong.

Raymond: 29:49 Oh my gosh, what a story.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 29:52 I don't tell that story a lot. You're like, when you hit me with that, I was like, huh, what has been, that's I will, I don't really remember what I ate for breakfast, but I'll never forget that moment. I can see it, smell it, dream it. Like I will never forget that moment. It's been 24 years. I'll never forget it.

Raymond: 30:08 Well, I'm very happy that you decided not to listen to that man and decided to forge your own path and do what it is that you wanted to do and end up where you are here today. Because I can tell you that not only hearing you talk in person, but seeing the other people in the audience as well, that you are making a change in these people's lives and that you know, you're doing great things. So thank you for not for not listening to to whoever. That was very welcoming. Thank you for saying that. Oh man. Now I'm all, I got even me, I got like endorphin. I'm like, Oh my gosh. Like I'm kind of upset about that whole situation. But it's very exciting. I got, I got just one last question for you before, before I let you go.

Raymond: 30:55 As a you do print competitions is what you you, you judge print competitions is wrong. Right? Okay. So this is, this is a word that I've never entered in to myself and I've spoke with people like [inaudible] who's, who's, you know, talked about the power of you know, the album, the wedding album, and having something printed. I've always been interested in like, as a judge for you, what is something that, I mean right away you'll look at an image and tell yourself, Oh, this is from a professional, or this is from an amateur.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 31:29 Yeah. So first of all, image competition is a big part of my, my, my journey in photography. And I know it's made me a better photographer, hands down. And that's my journey. That may not be yours or, or your listeners. But when I'm looking at work, the first thing I do is if, if, if I hear a title and that title can go either way, but if there's a title in a S in a story, spins around and it just grabs my heart, meaning that impact, that emotional storytelling journey is there. And this could be a landscape, it could be an abstract, it could be a portrait, it could be a wedding image. You know, for me, losing my father when I was so young, you know, you give me a daddy daughter dance or you know, I mean, and it spins around, my heart is in, and then I'm going to look for technical.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 32:18 So I feel like the difference sometimes between, let's just call it a merit or not merit, whether it's professional or not professional, whatever it is, the difference for me is it's gotta be technically, it doesn't have to be flawless. It doesn't have to be perfect. Not for me. Every judge is different. Everybody's different. But it does have to be technically proficient. So if we are thunder exposed or certainly focus or you know, it's not flat, you know what I mean? Those are things that I think that's not meritorious work. But if you've got some tech, you've got the technical proficiency and you grab me in a story or it's just so beautiful what you've captured. I'm all in now. That's me as a judge. I, everybody's different. But you know what, we just had our image competition here in Virginia. We had 740 some images go through and I am the JC and I watched every one of them.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 33:13 And I remember some of them as if it was yesterday that we looked at 'em because, and you know what? Some of them were for brand new members brand new to photography, but gosh dang their eye and their energy came through, you know, like fireworks. So it just doesn't matter how long have you been in this business or not. It's just, you know, sometimes you just get that image and it just seems, and if it makes you tingle and you know, makes your heart beat a little faster, I'm all in. That's me. That's how I would judge. That's how I do it.

Raymond: 33:42 Do you think that that's something that a photographer has to become aware of seeing in their own work?

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 33:48 I think so. I think that, you know, I mean, you're photographing a wedding or something and you'd get that shot and you'd go, you'd know it or your photograph and that kiddo or that moment between a mother and a child or you you, you, your skin prickles a little. Cause you know, you got it and then you go, shoot, I hope the flash of an offer. I hope I was now. Then that little prayer comes into play. But you know, you know, when, you know, as an artist, when you get that special moment, and look, there's a lot of great moments that maybe don't make your heart beat a little faster. But you know, sometimes it's just those things. And I'm not saying that everything has to be that because you know, if it's a great technically great image and it's well done, I'm also going to reward that. I mean I'm, I'm, you know, I'm a photographer, but those are the ones that really sing and stand out for me.

Raymond: 34:37 Beautiful. Beautiful. Mary, it has been a pleasure speaking with you today. I've had so much fun talking to you about this whole industry and as you said, sifting through the noise and really standing out. So I have to thank you, but before I let you go, can you let the listeners know where they can find out more about you? Online?

Mary Fisk-Taylor: 34:55 Absolutely. Mary Fisk, Taylor. MaryFiskTaylor.com or you can look me up at social media. You can hit me up there. And Kara, dairy Berry. I'm from Tallahassee, Florida, and I have a podcast called get your shoot together and you can find it on any of the podcasts thing you do is that you look up but happy to support this great podcast of yours. Thank you for what you're doing. It's a really great services industry and I really appreciate you having me on today.