Tori Wright is a model with more than 10 years of experience turned photographer. Her understanding of both sides of the camera has helped her grow quick and plant a foundation in the photographic community. Today we talk about the do’s and dont’s of working with models for new photographers.

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In This Episode You'll Learn:

• When Tori knew she wanted to focus on photography

• Where Tori struggled most with technical settings when getting started

• How Tori’s experience modeling helped prepare her for photography

• How to pose models

• How to reach out to models and what you need to tell them before they commit

• When to know you’re ready to work with models

• What is TFP

• What separates a good photographer from a bad photographer for models to work with

Premium Members Also Learn:

• How Tori booked her first paid shoot as a photographer

• Where you need to be to start booking shoots with models

• Whos pays the model

• How much to pay a model and what to give them

Resources:

• St Louis Headshot Photographer Tori Wright’s Website

• Find Tori on Instagram

• The Contract Vault - Save 20% off your month by using the code BPP at check out

Did you enjoy this episode? Check out more recent interviews with other great guests!

Full Episode Transcription:

Disclaimer: The transcript was transcribed electronically by Temi.com and may contain errors that do not reflect accurately what the speaker said. Because of this, please do not quote this automated transcript.

Raymond Hatfield: 00:00 You were in front of a camera as a model for 10 years before getting behind it and becoming the photographer yourself. So what was it about the camera that after being on set for 10 years, you know, you thought, you know what, I want to give this photography thing a try,

Tori Wright: 00:17 You know, it's really weird because I never thought that I would become a photographer. I mean, I've always been a creative in general, but I never thought that I would go down the photography route. It all really started when I was modeling and I would have to take pictures for my agent and they would say, send me a picture of you doing this. Are you doing that? And I didn't have a lot of people around me, so I would kind of just take these pictures. And then I started traveling and taking pictures, you know, all over the world. And then when it came down to it, sorry, what was the question?

Raymond Hatfield: 00:49 When did you think to yourself? You know what, I think I'm going to put the brakes on this modeling thing and try out photography.

Tori Wright: 00:55 Right? So when it came back to photography, I was just like, you know, I really love it. It just combines like all of the creative things that I love. It's got a little bit of technical, technical parts to it. It's got the creative parts to it and you just get to make pretty pictures for social media and for wherever. And so I just kind of phased into it after learning to take pictures for myself and just taking them from my modeling portfolio. And then I started to take them, other people, and I just got so inspired every single time I took a picture and I'm like, okay, well, this is really something.

Raymond Hatfield: 01:28 Did you start off with like, just, just your cell phone or did you start off just straight in buying a DSLR?

Tori Wright: 01:35 I had a DSLR that I got in college and I did not know how to use it. So I learned on YouTube in like two weeks, but still didn't know how to use it. Try to take some pictures, like blowing glitter. You remember that like blow glitter? None of them worked out and I was just cleaning up glitter for hours and days and months. But yeah, I had that one. I never knew how to use it, so I pretty much just sat on a shelf. And then when I started to really get into photography, I was like trying to play with it again. I'm like, you know what, this is just not working. So I bought a new mirrorless camera and just like all of the best things that I could buy. And I was just like, okay, yeah, this is completely different. This is like a whole new world with like modern technology.

Raymond Hatfield: 02:21 What, was there something about the mirrorless camera that really helped solidify how photography worked for you?

Tori Wright: 02:29 I don't, I think it was just like the sharpness in the way that it was focusing because I just, I was shooting on a 1.4. I had like a prime wins on my, on my Nikon DSLR. And I was trying to just shoot everything at 1.4, like all beginners do, and I couldn't get anything in focus and I couldn't figure it out. So when I switched over to the muralist, I couldn't afford the 1.4 lenses. Cause you know, they're pretty pricey on the newer cameras. So I had get like a 1.8 and just like that small change in depth, I was able to just get more focused and I'm like, okay, well maybe I just don't need to shoot at 1.4, maybe that's the problem. And it took buying a whole new system of cameras to figure that out.

Raymond Hatfield: 03:14 It was a very expensive lesson to learn. Isn't it?

Tori Wright: 03:17 Yeah. But I'm very happy. I'm very happy. I would never go back.

Raymond Hatfield: 03:21 Right. It's weird as somebody who's who I've also been shooting mirrorless for a long time now, it just seems so, so strange to go back to just like the traditional, you know, prison finder, just looking out through the lens and not being able to see that accurate representation of what you're going to capture before, before you grab the photo. That's. So before, before you, before you made the upgrade right before you switched and you're still trying to figure this whole thing out and these photos aren't turning out the way that you wanted, would you say that was there anything in particular that you struggled with most, you know, aside from this whole depth of field thing, was there anything else that you really thought to yourself? Why am I just not getting this?

Tori Wright: 04:03 No, I think my experience as like a model, just knowing how to frame things and knowing how to take portraits in general really made it easy for me, but I was just pulling them up on my computer and they just were not in focus and it was driving me crazy. And I'm just like, this is the shot, but it's not in focus. So it's trash.

Raymond Hatfield: 04:22 And that was all attributed to the, to the very shallow depth of field.

Tori Wright: 04:27 Pretty much. Yeah, because I didn't know anything. I just knew that photography trick was the shoot is wide open as if you just want like the shoulder in focus.

Raymond Hatfield: 04:38 Cause, and not the eyes that's, that's my least favorite. Like whenever I put the camera, you know, an autofocus and just put it on like face tracking and it gets to the nose and not the eyes. I'm so disappointed. I'm like, why do you think that? Why would you think that? So obviously being a model you'd been in front of the camera, you know, many times, many times, would you say that before you actually picked up the camera that maybe there was a preconceived idea of how easy or how hard photography was for you?

Tori Wright: 05:09 Yeah, I think that the transition felt easy. It didn't feel like it was something that I couldn't do because I was always around photographers and working on sets and stuff like that. And I had come a long way as a model starting like 10 years ago when model mayhem was like the best way to find photographers to work with. And I was shooting with anybody and everybody, and you know, probably not the best decisions that I've made, you know, going to photographers, big Smiths that didn't know of and taking pictures. And so I learned pretty quickly after sending these pictures to my agent, which pictures are good and which pictures are bad. And I was able to sort of like filter through what makes a good picture and a bad picture. So coming into photography, I already knew that because I learned that from the other side of the camera. What

Raymond Hatfield: 05:58 Were some of those things? What were some of the things that you thought, Oh, this makes a bad photo and versus this makes a good photo?

Tori Wright: 06:05 Well, it's, it's more specific to my type of photography. Like when it comes to like taking portraits models for their portfolio, you know, just like things that are just getting a little bit too artsy or just like too dark or too much of a theme or too costumey, you know, when I'm taking pictures, I'm trying to sell the model. And sometimes when I was taking pictures in the past, I thought they were really cool pictures, but they weren't doing anything to sell me as a model to get me more jobs. They were just cool pictures.

Raymond Hatfield: 06:36 Ah, interesting. Interesting. Do you think that's an issue that many new photographers have is that they have these lofty ideas of a shoot and then it, it doesn't really benefit the model at all, or maybe that the ideas and fully fleshed out?

Tori Wright: 06:50 Yeah, I think definitely. I mean, and there's things like when I shoot with models and I'm just going to be like, Hey, we're going to shoot for your portfolio, but we're also going to do a look. That's just going to be really fun just for like Instagram or something, you know, because like Instagram and like professional photos that muddles need for their portfolio, they can be completely different. You know, there's like two different worlds, Instagram models and then like professional models. So I'm just telling them, you know, we're going to do this completely different and it's okay to get artsy and do all these things. But I feel like sometimes you have to take a step back and make sure your focus is on your model.

Raymond Hatfield: 07:30 [Inaudible] And how, as a photographer now, how do you do that?

Tori Wright: 07:35 So really I just talked to them and a lot of times they do have portfolios since I'm just at the beginner phase. So they come for me to me for updates and just like little mini updates to what they already have add ons. And so I asked them always, what roles do you get cast for? And I take that role and I kind of create like a setting for this character that they get cast for. And I shoot that.

Raymond Hatfield: 08:03 Okay. So what about, I love that first of all, I mean, that's great. That's going to make the model. I'm sure. Feel very comfortable and excited to work with you because they know that they're going to get something out of it. But as a photographer, is there some sort of a creative aspect to it for you where you're thinking like, man, I have this really cool idea for a shoot. I really want to get a model for this. And maybe, maybe it doesn't benefit the model. Is, is that even a question? Like, does that make sense where I'm going with that?

Tori Wright: 08:29 Yeah. Yeah. So I think that everything always benefits the model, but it may not benefit their portfolio. So for example, let's say that they're a newer model and they don't have much experience just getting in front of the camera and working with a new photographer and just, you know, if you are going down the creative route, getting them to kind of step out of their box a little bit is always good experience for that model. So that can benefit them. And you know, like I said, I shoot some things that are creative and I'm just like, your agent is not going to like this, but this is going to get published, you know? So that's kind of also experience and can benefit the model just to say that they were published.

Raymond Hatfield: 09:09 Yeah. Oh, I bet. I bet it would be, it'd be, I mean, as a, as a photographer, it's great to say that you've been published, you know, in all of these magazines as well. I can't imagine for a model. I just quick question, I just thought of this. If you had to guess, you know, a lot of people say that like photography is a very saturated industry. Would you say that the modeling side is more saturated than the photographer side?

Tori Wright: 09:30 That's a tough question. I would say yes. I would say everybody is a model now, especially with an Instagram days, you know, and there's lots of photographers out there, you know, and especially now that you can be a photographer with just your cell phone, I would say it's pretty even because the people who are modeling for these cell phone photographers are also models.

Raymond Hatfield: 09:55 Yeah, that's true. That's true. So that kind of brings me to my next question here, which is well, first of all, I kind of want to get into the, the shooting side of it here, which is, are you, are you right now? Now I know that you've been doing this. You've made the transition for about how long now, how long have you been focusing more on photography rather than the modeling side?

Tori Wright: 10:19 Well I still did both.

Raymond Hatfield: 10:20 Okay. Well, how, how long have you been I guess more focused. Where's your, where's your focus at right now?

Tori Wright: 10:27 It's kind of funny because in some days in the mornings I will have a photo shoot where I'm modeling and then the afternoon I will go and be taking photos of somebody else.

Raymond Hatfield: 10:36 Do you like that? Do you want to continue doing that? Or is there one side

Tori Wright: 10:39 Really, really weird, but you know, I feel like doing both has increased my skills in belt, you know, so I worked with other models as a photographer and that makes me a better model. And then working with other photographers as the model has, you know, they, when I'm there, they teach me so many things and I've learned so many things on set and never thinking that I was going to ever apply them to photography, but I am, and I'm still learning on set. So I don't think that I would give up either. Raymond Hatfield: 11:07 Do you have, do you have an example of something that that you've learned on set that you brought into your own business here?

Tori Wright: 11:14 Oh man. So many, a lot of them are more like things that should be on set, whereas like, you know, you need to stop like places to hang your clothes when I'm designing my studio. I know that I always come to photo shoots with like bags and bags of clothes and in hangers. And so I'm putting that as soon as you walk in the door, there's going to be like a rolling bar in a space for you to hang your clothes. So that's just something that I picked up, but I was working with a photographer that actually shot my very first modeling portfolio 10 years ago. Oh, wow. So he was shooting me for a local brand just the other day. And I was telling him how, you know, he inspired me to become photographer, whether he knew it or not like everything I learned from working with him back then, you know, I'm using today. And he was giving me just like so many more tips. Like for flooring, you can just like paint vinyl from the hardware store on planks are not playing sound rolls. You can just paint that and you can just have interchangeable flooring drops.

Raymond Hatfield: 12:14 Yeah. I would not have known that. I would not have known that. What about from, what about from the modeling side though, as a, as a, as a model interacting with other photographers what has been something that that you've picked up in a way to interact with other models that now you're working with?

Tori Wright: 12:34 I think just just like comfort and telling people how to pose. I know I talked to this, told you this at the beginning. When I was working with photographers in the past, sometimes they'll give you every single pose they want you to, they'll tell you to do it. You know, it's like, okay, now turn your head like this and put your hand on your head and your other hand on your hip and arch your back. And they'll literally pose you in every single shot. And so it kind of is hard because you're just waiting for them to pose you. Cause they're automatically the boss now and they're telling you how to pose it. So it's just kind of like weird, cause you don't know what to do without their instructions, even though you can fully model, but that's just that sort of like photographer relationships.

Tori Wright: 13:19 So I sort of learned from that because I don't like being posed like that. So when I'm working with models now I tell them maybe a post to get into, but then they'll say, okay, but like shake it out and make it your own, you know? Or I'm going to let you pose. And then since you can't see what's in my camera, you can't see the angle at their perspective. I'm just going to shift you just a little bit. So I like to let them feel in charge, but if I need to pose them a little bit and make sure that they shake it up, so they're not feeling stiff and they know that they have the freedom to do whatever they want as far as posing,

Raymond Hatfield: 13:56 Shake it up, shake it up. I like that because I think when I, when I first got started and I know that many others, when they first get started as well, you know, you get the camera. When you think to yourself, I gotta get some people in front of a camera and you go to your neighbors, your friends, your family, you know, whatever it is. And you realize, man, these people just don't have the enthusiasm or the photo genericness, you know, quality from my subjects that I wished that I had oftentimes that first thought is, man, I should, I should get a model because models obviously know what they're doing and they know how to pose. But from, from the photography perspective right here how important is it for you to understand the posing side of it versus letting the model kind of just do their own thing?

Tori Wright: 14:48 So I think that posing is definitely important, especially because when you're looking through your camera, you can see what they see. And sometimes one of my tricks is like to let them pose, but then to show them on my camera, Hey, this is what this is looking like. It looks good, but you need to just like shift it. But a lot of people come to me that have never met before and just being able to pose them. They really love that. And I'm not, not like posing them, like I mentioned before, like telling them exactly how to put every single arm and leg. And I don't tell them how to do that. I just, you know, give them moods and vibes. And then I show them personally, I think that's probably what I'm getting at. I personally show them the pose cause I'm a model. And so I can just do whatever and then they can replicate that. But like in their own body motions and their own level of comfortability and they're able to get the shots. So I think that knowing how to pose as a model definitely helps people who aren't models and helps you really get the shot.

Raymond Hatfield: 15:52 Okay. So let's talk about posing for a little bit. Or do you have some simple let's can you give me an example of maybe something that you shot for recently? Was it like a brand thing? Was it a, for a portfolio let's just work with an example here, the model or you as the photographer.

Tori Wright: 16:11 Okay. let's see. With a non-model or a model.

Raymond Hatfield: 16:18 Well, I guess what I'm getting at here is like a, you know, like where would you start with this whole thing? You know, if you were to show up as the photographer and you have a model in front of you, and let's say that you're working with with a, with a clothing brand what's kind of the first, is there a GoTo pose that you start off with and then just kind of build on from there? Are there a set series of body looks that you go for?

Tori Wright: 16:42 Okay. Yeah. So I'll talk about specifically shooting for portfolios. So when they comes to portfolios I try to get certain poses and certain like framings with each outfit. And it really depends on the type of outfit and the type of model that you're working with. So if you're working with like a commercial model, you know, I would start them just like walking and laughing. That's always a really easy one to start with just very candid shots. And then we would just, just move to like headshots sitting shots. I try to do those on every single look. It's going to be like a headshot and sitting shot three quarters shots and like emotion shot. And then the posing just comes along with whatever. I mean, if it's going to be a fashion one, you're going to have to get a lot of motion. It's going to depend on the dress, the wardrobe, you know, whether it's styling on hair, it's sort of like interacting with whatever you're, whatever you're promoting in your photos. That's, that's where I start.

Raymond Hatfield: 17:48 Okay. So if I know that there's kind of, I don't know, I don't want to say two schools, but it seems like when I see a lot of modeling photos, they're either very lifestyle or they're very, very post like high fashion. You know what I mean? Would you say that as a photographer, that there's kind of, that those are two different routes to go on or that you need to be pretty versatile in both

Tori Wright: 18:15 Two different routes? Yes, there are definitely different routes, but I think that they are somewhat aligned and a lot of times I feel like you can just change it up depending on the wardrobe and a smile. So if you want something to be not fashion or not lifestyle, we just tell them like, don't smile. And as soon as you smile, even if you have them like in a nice dress, it becomes lifestyle.

Raymond Hatfield: 18:39 Well, that's a, that's very quick and easy. I like that. I like that, that really does change it up quite a bit with very minimal, minimal effort. Now, if you are I guess first off are you as a photographer, are you working more with, cause I, this is going to lead into my next question. I'm sorry for this buildup right here, which is, are you as the photographer, are you working with paying clients or is this like spec type stuff? I'm very new to this whole world of, of, of working with models. So I don't even know if I'm using the right terminology here.

Tori Wright: 19:12 So it depends. I lucky to, and lucky enough that I had a hookup with my agency, so they were able to send me models when I was building portfolio a portfolio for myself. So I got to work with a lot of models early on that are professional. And now I am working with models and they are paying me. And I'm also working with people who want to be models, because I do have the experience on the other side of the camera. They really appreciate that I can help and teach them at the same time. And then I work with people who are not models at all and have no, even not any idea of becoming a model. But just want really nice headshots that makes it, that make them, they'll make them look like a model, but they don't, they don't want to go down the middle.

Raymond Hatfield: 20:02 Oh, that's what I want. I got, I got to come down to st. Louis. That's exactly what I want. I don't, I don't want to be a model at all. Okay. So let's say that you have this idea for a shoot, right? And now it's time for you to reach out to a model. I guess first question is how do you find the right model for whatever your vision is? And then as a model, what information do you need from the photographer when being pitched to shoot idea?

Tori Wright: 20:28 So I find a lot of my models through Instagram so late, and I haven't really connected here in st. Louis as far as modeling goes, because like I said, I've been doing this in st. Louis for 10 years or more, and I've worked with a lot of different models on set. So a lot of times I can just call up a friend. But if I have a project and I want to look for a model, I would go to the modeling agencies starting with my own that I'm huddle for, because I'm the most connected with them. But yeah, and pretty much I just say, Hey, I have this idea. This is what it's going to be. I have a couple ideas right now. But I'll just say, you know, I was invited to shoot at this place and I have this like grand idea, and this is what I'm going for. And a lot of models will just say absolutely yes. And it's, it's not a big deal.

Raymond Hatfield: 21:19 Okay. So if somebody is just starting and maybe they're not as well connected in the modeling industry, as you are, you would say reaching out on Instagram is a great place to start.

Tori Wright: 21:29 Anybody on Instagram will model for you.

Raymond Hatfield: 21:32 Okay. So then where do you get cited from there? You shoot them a message. And then that goes into my next question, which was as a model, what information do you like to know when being pitched for a shoot idea?

Tori Wright: 21:43 Yeah. I made a joke with my friend. I said, Hey, I'm coming into town and let's get together for a coffee and then maybe we can do a photo shoot, but like, how do you know, I want to do a photo shoot. Everybody wants to do a photo shoot. But I'm pretty much, I just pitched to them. My ideas, the dates in general, if I don't have a specific date and I'm really flexible. And I'm trying to say, you know, what days work for your availability? Like weekdays, weekends, you know, just so I can plan everything. And sometimes I'll send them like little mood boards or stuff like that that can sort of give them a vision of what I'm going for. It's if you're going to start getting really creative, I think it's definitely important to show the model. What's your wanting to shoot before, like having them come here to your studio or wherever you're going to shoot and say, by the way, you're going to be wearing lingerie today and we're going to paint you and you're going to be wearing this crazy hair and makeup for a Halloween shoot. You know, it's definitely important to let them know as much details as possible when it comes to planning these things and reaching out to them because you don't want them to be like surprised when they get there, because that will make them uncomfortable.

Raymond Hatfield: 22:55 Oh, okay. That makes sense. So when it comes to a mood board, which I love that idea, how do you just make something in Pinterest and send it to them or something else?

Tori Wright: 23:03 Yeah, a lot of times just Pinterest. Sometimes I'll build a whole board out for a shoot if I already have the idea and I'm just looking for the model and sometimes I have just screenshots on my phone and then I'll be going through Instagram and I'll be like, this person is perfect for this type of shoot that I wanted to do. So I'll send them that image. That was just the screenshot and say, Hey, are you interested in doing a photo shoot? That sort of looks like this.

Raymond Hatfield: 23:28 Okay. I, I love that. That makes sense. So then let's, let's kind of shift gears here and talk a little bit about the business side of the photographer and model relationship. You mentioned there just a few minutes ago, sometimes you pay models, sometimes models pay you to work with you. So before we get into that, let's start with that first paid shoot that you had with a model. I want to know how that went. How did you book it? Were you nervous? And how did it turn out?

Speaker 3: 23:56 You are listening to the free version of the beginner photography podcast, where each week you learn how world-class photographers see and capture the world around them. If you want to hear the extended interview with their best business tips, to learn how to make money with your camera and then become a premium member today, by heading over to beginner photography, podcast.com and click the premium membership button to join now.

Raymond Hatfield: 24:19 So obviously we just talked a lot about how to pay your model, where to find models and all that stuff, which was just fantastic information, but let's take a step back from that. And as the photographer, I guess kind of the bigger question is when do you know that you're ready to work with a model or not?

Tori Wright: 24:40 Well, like I said, there are models on all different levels premiere, you know, your, your neighbor's daughter who likes to model to professional models that are working in agencies to roll blind models that are traveling all over the world and all on the cover of Vogue and that sort of thing. So I feel like at any point you should be ready to work with a model as long as you're competent enough, because you can also learn a lot from working with a model. You know, someone who's comfortable in front of the camera is huge. It's a huge deal, you know, versus like trying to get your brother to take pictures, right.

Raymond Hatfield: 25:18 Do you have any tips on getting new models comfortable in front of the camera?

Tori Wright: 25:24 I have to just say, you know, you be comfortable and they'll be comfortable, let them know what you're wanting to do so they can even know you can work towards a common goal. And I think that music also really helps. So I always bring like a little speaker with me and it attaches to my camera bag with a little hook. And I always ask the model, what type of music do you like to listen to? And so they'll tell me, and I'll put that on their Spotify until their favorite song will be playing. And all of a sudden they're just so much more comfortable and relaxed and, you know, happy to be there.

Raymond Hatfield: 25:58 That is a great tip. I've always seen those little, like, I don't know, JBL speakers or whatever with the Caribbean or club on them. And I always thought to myself like, who uses these, but now like, that totally makes sense as to why you might want to use it. And I might even pick one up from my camera bag for engagement sessions. I like that tip. Thank you very much for sharing that.

Tori Wright: 26:16 You're welcome. Yeah. Music makes a huge difference.

Raymond Hatfield: 26:20 What about what about saying, you know, somebody who is you know, brand new to modeling again and maybe isn't comfortable with posing. I know you talked a little bit earlier about you having the experience of being a model. What, again, situation is somebody brand new to modeling just walks in front of your camera and says, I'm ready for this, but kind of what, what would you tell them?

Tori Wright: 26:47 Like as far as they're struggling, kind of like get to closing. Yeah,

Raymond Hatfield: 26:52 Sure. Yeah. What, what would you tell them?

Tori Wright: 26:55 Well, a lot of times when I am building out a shoot for a particular person, I will create a mood board. And sometimes these mood boards have poses in them. You know, like we're not gonna shoot this idea, but look at this post. And so I always have that on Pinterest and I send them model that link and I say, Hey, look at this as far as like mood and bias, but also opposing ideas. And so then when it comes to actually shooting, I can pull up that picture again. And I can say, Hey, remember this picture, let's try to do this luck. You know, and I do have the experience as a model that I can go into the post myself. Like I set my camera down and I'm like, okay, not do this. And so they're able to, you know, mimic me. But really it's just kind of working with them and just kind of teaching them little tricks, like, okay, don't be so stiff. Keep switching it up. Even if it's just like shifting back and forth your weight from one leg to another, it's just going to be working with them and they will eventually learn. But yeah,

Raymond Hatfield: 27:55 It's really something as simple as just like weight from one leg to the other that can make a huge difference. Tori Wright: 28:00 It can be. Yeah. Just cause you're like swaying, just hips, one to the other. Raymond Hatfield: 28:06 I can see what the camera in your hand that you're just swaying right there. And it looks very natural. Yeah.

Tori Wright: 28:11 Yeah. I mean, like, let's say you're doing one pose and your weights on one side, but you can just switch it up and throw your weight to the other side, you know, and that's two poses, you know, and then start moving your arms around and everything's a new post.

Raymond Hatfield: 28:24 Okay. I like that. Can you talk to me a little bit about TFP, because that's a term that I hear all the time I've seen from obviously models I've seen from photographers. Can you tell me kind of what it is and your views on it?

Tori Wright: 28:39 So when I learned it, it was kind for prints, but nobody really prints pictures anymore. So I guess it's time for pictures or for photos. I don't know. Well, basically that means it's like a train shoots. So you work with a model and the model works with you. The new word is also like collabs. Let's go. So it pretty much just means it's free. You're not getting paid. The model's not getting paid and you just get together and work and take pictures. And then in theory, you should send those pictures of the models, but sometimes that doesn't happen cause it was a free shoe. So not saying that I haven't personally done that, but as a model on the other side, there has been photographers that would want to do with time for print shoot. And then you can just never get the pictures because it was free. So it's not on your level of priority. No, it's not a top priority to get those editing.

Raymond Hatfield: 29:38 Well, let's, let's talk about that for a minute because being a model, you know, starting off you know, 10 plus years ago what are just some good practices that as new photographers who are listening, who want to start working with models should and should not do,

Tori Wright: 29:59 Should I mention that

Raymond Hatfield: 30:00 Obviously we should be sending photos to the model, but what are some other things that we should be doing and what are some things that we should not be doing?

Tori Wright: 30:08 Man? That's a tough question. Well, I did say as a photographer, there are some things that you should be doing, and this is not just coming to, this is not just for models, but this is a tip from a model. Is that when you're working with somebody that you should always give them like a little checklist that the things that they need to do before shoe and some of those should include like, make sure your nails are painted like completely or not at all, you know, make sure that you're bringing these sorts of things to your photo shoot for like touch ups on your makeup. I always say, you know, make sure that your clothes are ironed. That is my biggest pet peeve when people show up without hiring clothes and they're just like in a ball and a suitcase. So I always give my anybody that I'm shooting a checklist and they say do this the night before you shoot. And it's gonna make everything go so much smoother the next day.

Raymond Hatfield: 31:02 And is that just like, is it the same list that you send to everybody or does it change

Tori Wright: 31:05 The same list? And the times that I don't send it, you know, it would be to like my friend, that's a model and my kitchen not, they come with like their nail Polish chips and editorial and they come with their nail Polish, like three different colors and like chipped. I'm like, cool. So I'm gonna have to put a shot each and everyone here, nails

Raymond Hatfield: 31:23 That always takes up so much time that yeah. I would imagine

Tori Wright: 31:26 Expect that they know, you know, and I feel like that's also just a good way to elevate your photos.

Raymond Hatfield: 31:31 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. What about what about now the reverse, I guess, what are some things as a photographer that you are as a model? What are some things that you saw photographers do that other photographers should not be doing? Tori Wright: 31:45 Man, it's really hard.

Raymond Hatfield: 31:47 I can see in your eyes that there's a billion things.

Tori Wright: 31:50 Okay. So my biggest thing is like these photographers that pretty much try to get every model like naked because that's like a look. But it's really, it's really not. I feel like as a woman, as a photographer that has like an also who has been a model that has been a huge thing for me. Cause a lot of people will come to me saying, you know, like I'm shooting with you cause you're a woman and I feel more comfortable because in the past they've shot with photographers and then the photographers say, yeah, Oh yeah. To get like half naked is fashionable when it's, you know, really. Yeah. Creepy.

Raymond Hatfield: 32:27 Yeah. All right. So I guess maybe this isn't a, a, a show for models, but as a model, like what do you do in that situation? Cause that sounds terrifying. That sounds horrible. Especially with, as you said earlier, being in somebody's basement. I mean, that sounds like literally terrifying.

Tori Wright: 32:45 Yeah. I mean, I was really lucky to make it out of a lot of these things. I mean, I've never had like any scares, but I've, you know, definitely got some vibes. But you know, really, it's just about making sure that you communicate what your goals are for each photo shoot beforehand. I think that's important. So that way you're not surprised when you show up and they're like telling you that you're going to be shooting in lingerie and you're not comfortable with that.

Raymond Hatfield: 33:12 [Inaudible] Okay. Okay. So yeah, just managing the expectations that, that makes sense. Not saying that you're going to, you know, just shoot some sort of lifestyle thing and then surprise, we're actually doing this naked when they show up or something,

Tori Wright: 33:24 It could happen. There's some photographers that definitely go down that route and it's just like, no,

Raymond Hatfield: 33:30 Like, like with it being a surprise, like it's just gonna make it all better, something that's horrible. So from the photography standpoint I kind of want to know I'm sorry, not from the photography standpoint, from the model's standpoint working with so many photographers is you have, is there anything that you have recognized aside from things like, you know, the rolling cart and whatnot, what makes a good professional photographer from a less than professional photographer? Are there any key things,

Tori Wright: 34:03 Any I would just say the quality in the photos, honestly. Just anybody can take a great photo, especially with today's equipment, but if you don't know how to edit that so that it looks like it's from 2020 rather than like, you know, 2009, I feel like that's a huge, a huge thing that will differentiate if you're, you know, good professional photographer and just not

Raymond Hatfield: 34:31 From a technical standpoint as the photographer now, what do you think that is? Is that something like off camera flash? Is that something like V flats? Like what does that mean? How do we increase the quality of our images?

Tori Wright: 34:45 I would say that it definitely depends on the type of lighting that you're going to use, but also I feel like it depends on how thick your level of frequency separation is. And I say thick because you know exactly what it means sometimes it's literally just like someone just much the whole skin on a picture. And yeah, I would say that, is it the editing techniques,

Raymond Hatfield: 35:10 Editing technique? I mean, that's the thing that we didn't even get into today. And unfortunately we're, we're running out of time here and I wish that we did have time for that. So I'll have to bring it back on and we'll talk about that here in the future. But yeah, obviously editing has gotta be a big part of this as it's not as I'm sure rarely you're just taking the photos and then delivering them right away. Right. They all pretty much require some sort of retouching and editing. Is that right?

Tori Wright: 35:36 Yeah. I mean, I retouch a lot. I know a lot of my friends that are photographers that barely retouch anything. And I wish I could be more like them because it just saved me so much time. At the beginning, like being able to retouch was definitely a godsend because I made a lot of mistakes, but I was able to fix them in the editing process. So I've learned to kind of like minimize my mistakes, but you know, as a new photographer, these things happen, you know, you do make the mistakes. But if you're a professional and you're just making the mistakes in the editing process, I feel like that's an easy fix.

Raymond Hatfield: 36:14 Right? Why is that? Why do you think that's easier than are you saying that it's easier than the photography side of it?

Tori Wright: 36:21 Well, I feel like if you're a good photographer and you are bad at editing, you can just learn to like edit, but if you're shooting bad photography, which I was at the beginning and you didn't know how to edit that out, like you just have like battled top of bed and your photos just not to get good, you know, at least with editing, you can make anything look decent.

Raymond Hatfield: 36:41 Okay. So for new photographers listening right now, focus first on editing or focus first on the photography,

Tori Wright: 36:49 I would say learn both, but so you know what to fix. So like, if you're, if you're trying, if you're making mistakes, while you're doing photography, you should be able to recognize that this is a mistake and you should know how to edit out that mistake. But I think it takes you recognizing, you know, that this is not how it should be.

Raymond Hatfield: 37:08 Yeah. So last question here for you. And it's a simple one. Is there any sort of common, bad info that you hear being taught to new photographers about working with models?

Tori Wright: 37:23 Hmm, not that I can think of. I mean, there's, there's, like I said, there's just so many, there's like a wide range of what's a model now, you know? So it's really hard to say that it's not, I just don't think that there is any specific thing that, that I've heard about working with models.

Raymond Hatfield: 37:48 Well then before I let you go, is there anything that you would tell to a new aspiring photographer who's looking to start working with models?

Tori Wright: 37:59 Yeah, I would say don't be afraid to reach out to people who would obviously, you know, they don't need to be a top model, but someone who feels comfortable in front of the camera if you are a new photographer and you're wanting to work with the model, the benefit is that these models are comfortable in front of the camera and they know how to pose. And so if you're new, you can focus more on your camera and working, you know, your exposure and all of these things and trying out cool stuff, because you don't have to worry about the person on the other side of the camera necessarily, you know, because they're already doing their thing and you can focus on your, so that's a great way to kind of like get yourself to grow in level up when you only have to focus on one thing when it comes to the portraits.

Raymond Hatfield: 38:44 I don't think that I could have said it any better. Myself, Tori. I want to say obviously, thank you so much for coming on today and before I let you go, can you let the listeners know where they can follow you online and check out your own work?

Tori Wright: 38:58 Yes. So you can follow me at victorious, STL victorious, like when you win the game I'm on the ground, the Dodgers,

Raymond Hatfield: 39:08 The Dodgers. So victorious.

Tori Wright: 39:10 Yeah, it was, he was victorious. STL. STL is for st. Louis. That's where I live. And I'm on Instagram. That's where I post most of my stuff. I do a little bit of editing videos on tick tock. And I also am watching a YouTube channel once I launch my studio, but that's in the works. So yeah.

Raymond Hatfield: 39:31 Lots of exciting stuff coming from you. Well, I'm excited. Well, again, Tori, I have to say thank you so much for coming on and sharing everything that you did today. And I look forward to keeping up with you here in the future.