Jessica Bellinger is an Orlando Florida based wedding photographer and author of a new book called The Humility Paradox. Jessica had a rough start in photography that helped her to see that our life's purpose really boils down to how we treat people that are hard to love. She shares how that has affected the way her photography grew into what it is today.

Become A Premium Member to access to more in-depth questions to help move your growing photo business forward!

In This Episode You'll Learn:

• [04:45] When did you know that photography was going to play a major role in your life?

• [07:38] What do you think it is about photography that just makes you feel so passionate about it?

• [09:35] What were the things you were shooting when you were just at home?

• [11:45] Was there anything in particular that you struggled with in the beginning?

• [14:26] Jessica shares that one major area of improvement so far, compared to when she started, is her editing style.

• [20:19] About Jessica's book "The Humility Paradox" and her backstory 

• [40:30] Who deserves to be a great photographer?

• [43:06] How to contact Jessica

Premium Members Also Learn:

• How Humility has grown Jessicas Business

• The struggle between being humble and also charging more than most photographers for your own work

• An in-depth look into how Jessica uses Facebook ads to market her business

Resources:

• Jessica Bellinger’s Website

• Jessica Bellinger’s book The Humility Paradox

• Jessica Bellinger on Instagram

Did you enjoy this episode? Check out more recent interviews with other great guests!

Full Episode Transcription:

Disclaimer: The transcript was transcribed electronically by Temi.com and may contain errors that do not reflect accurately what the speaker said. Because of this, please do not quote this automated transcript, it is only intended as a reference.

Raymond Hatfield: 00:00 At 16, you, you left home, dropped out of school to perf to pursue a life of couch surfing and partying every night, which is crazy. I know, you know, we make a lot of crazy decisions at 16, but this is not exactly how most photographers get into photography. So at 16, could you have imagined that you'd be where you are today running a wedding, photography business, being an author, a podcast, or having an e-commerce store. And when did you know that photography was actually going to play such a major role in your life?

Jessica Bellinger: 00:36 Yeah, so it is really, I, you know, at 16 I had absolutely no goals or aspirations. I really thought I was going to be like a drunk forever. And I was okay with it at the time. I was like, wow, this is great. You know, I love this life. I love partying and not caring about anything, you know, but it, it was really self-loathing. So I ended up it wasn't until I had my first kid, I was like, I had just turned, Oh, no, I was almost 21. I had my first son. Me and my husband had got married really quick after I found out I was pregnant and my whole life changed. Like, I mean, everything was flipped upside down. Things got real. Whereas before I was just a child doing whatever I wanted. And I just, I had no aspirations to ever go to college or do nothing interests me.

Jessica Bellinger: 01:30 And I think that's, that's what was so hard for me is I didn't see a future because I couldn't think of anything I would have ever wanted to do. But when I had my first son I kind of, you know, obviously I stepped back from everything I was doing, you know, I became a mom. You know, I was drinking, not so much after I had PIM, I think it was after my second son because I had another one. I got pregnant six months after I had my other, my first one. So I had kids, but it was with my second son. I was pregnant. That's when I first got my first camera. And that's when everything started. That was about six years ago. And one, I picked up a camera. I was like, I was so excited. Like, like I knew I found the thing and I was never sure, like, what if I buy a camera?

Jessica Bellinger: 02:19 And I don't even like it. And you know, it's one of those things you spend money on, you buy a bunch to get into this hobby and then you just get bored of it. But like, there was no boredom, it was like total obsession. And that's, I, I didn't realize it was going to be a business cause I wasn't expecting it to be, I was just like, I'm going to see where this goes. I'm not going to put any expectations. The only expectation I had was to enjoy it and to enjoy taking photos. So, and still today, like I've just basically, it's all from like, love from loving photography and you know, in the, the positive part is that I get to make money from it. You know, that's great. But even if I didn't, I would still be taking photos

Raymond Hatfield: 03:01 When it comes to that love of photography, you know, I can hand my wife a camera and she can take photos and she could like him, but she doesn't love the act of photography while obviously others do. What do you think it is about photography that just makes you feel so passionate about it?

Jessica Bellinger: 03:18 I don't know. I feel like I was just born to do it. And when you find that thing you're born to do you just obsess over it and like, I feel like everyone does have like that particular thing that they just love and they can think about all the time, you know? And for me, like I just never got to know if I was going to like it until I bought a camera. Like I had to get one in my hands and then, you know, the obsession started. But yeah, my husband's the same, no interest in photography whatsoever. I mean, he likes the stuff I do, but he would never do it himself. So I, yeah, it's so weird. I don't know why some people enjoy certain things and others don't. I just, you know, I am creative, so I'm sure that has something to do with it, but I've tried other art mediums and this was the only one that really stuck.

Raymond Hatfield: 04:10 So I read your book, the humility period,

Jessica Bellinger: 04:13 Read the whole thing or most of it,

Raymond Hatfield: 04:16 Most of it I'll be 100% honest it's as you know, like it's tough with kids around.

Jessica Bellinger: 04:21 No, no, that's fine. I'm just surprised you even read it at all.

Raymond Hatfield: 04:26 Well, I knew that I was going to have you on the show, so I didn't want to show up, you know, unprepared. But I think that it really gave me kind of a good idea as far as like, kind of who you are and where you were at, when it went in that time of your life, where, you know, you found photography and I found it really interesting. I've never been in the situation that you were in, you know, I think it's hard for anybody to put themselves in anybody else's shoes, a hundred percent, you know what I mean? But I think where you shared, you know, that time in your life, I mean, you were pretty much just like stuck at home alone, like with nothing to do. Right. And it was that camera that kind of helped you out. Right. So why don't you talk to me a little bit more about that and like what sorts of things you were shooting when you were just at home?

Jessica Bellinger: 05:14 Right? Yeah. It was a really, really lonely period in my life when I had had my kids, because I did decide to be a stay at home mom. And it was just agonizing. I don't, some people are built to be, stay at home moms and be with their kids 24 seven and I was not, I needed something and I didn't realize that I was like, I thought there was something wrong with me because it was so hard for me. But I just realized that I was built for other things as well. I needed to have my, I needed some sort of outlet. So I, it was, it was really hard, but I when I had my camera, when I first got it, I was just taking photos of my, my family members, my sister, my sister-in-law I was just practicing all the time, you know, hitting up friends like, Hey, can we take photos?

Jessica Bellinger: 06:06 I was just like, in my head, I was like, I need to take as many photos as I can, even if it's every day of objects in my house I just wanted to learn. So I was always like trying to figure out how editing worked and how settings worked and lenses worked. And I just really like spent all my time invested into it. And, you know, a few months later, six months later, you know, someone's like, Hey, I'll pay you, you know, $20, shoot my family $50, shoot my family. And it started that's when it started to snowball, it started to turn into people like, Hey, I'll pay you $200. Shoot my wedding. And so, you know, I, I started small, definitely my first wedding was actually for free for my sister, but but yeah, it just ended up snowballing because I was just dedicated to, and I was passionate about it.

Raymond Hatfield: 06:55 That's I think a lot of people can, you know resonate with that feeling. I know, you know, I did in the beginning, I loved something about capturing images, you know, but when we are, I think one of the biggest maybe not complaints, but comments that I get from listeners is that they don't feel like they have enough time to shoot. Right. And here you are, you're saying like, I was just shooting things around the house, you know? So was there anything that while you were at home shooting, just trying to learn as much as you could that maybe you struggled with in photography in the beginning, something that just didn't click right away?

Jessica Bellinger: 07:34 I don't know. I learned really, really fast. I was a fast learner. I did have a lot of extra time now. I mean the business aspect of it was hard, but that's a growing portion in itself. Like, you know, it takes time to understand like photography business, but one thing I would say for people who have that issue and feel like they don't have enough time you know, when, when you really love something, you will make time for it. I really believe that we'll, you know, we'll find time to do anything really. Unless you really are working like, you know, an absurd amount of hours and you just only have time to sleep and eat. But but really I feel like we, we would have enough time for those things that we're passionate about. If we're really passionate about them and something I see a lot of people get into is they are really I have people reach out to me how to start booking weddings before they've even learned how to use a camera.

Jessica Bellinger: 08:28 They're like, how do I make this into a business before they've even learned how to love it? And I think that's where a lot of people get stuck as they feel like learning is a task because they're just trying to build a business. But I feel like it, it's not about building a business it's about, you know, loving photography. And maybe that's just me because I've always like romanticized my photography. Like it's just, I feel like a deep connection to it. But if people don't feel a deep connection to it it's going to be a lot harder to learn, you know, because it's, it's not something you're necessarily passionate about. You, you're just wanting to try and build a business. And it actually, it catches me by surprise cause I'm like, why do people even want to try? Like, like, I'm just like, why do people want to do it if they don't love it? And you know, maybe some people just are more business oriented. I don't know. I'm definitely more, I was in the more artistic creativity, like creativity getting into photography. So like the business part, as much as I love it, it didn't resonate to me like that wasn't the important part.

Raymond Hatfield: 09:33 Right. I gotcha. So when it comes to, you know, that important part, that being creative, that feeling of, of, of capturing something, what about some of your earlier photos? Because as we all know, as photographers as time goes on, we look at some of those first photos and we're like, wow, was I thinking, you know, so now that you've kind of gotten to the point to where you have this experience and understanding of kind of what goes into an image when you look back at those first images of yours what is it about those images where you think to yourself like, Oh, these, these are amateur images. Do you know what I mean? Does that, does that question make sense?

Jessica Bellinger: 10:13 Yes. definitely my editing style was just really bad. When I first got started and was using a kit lens and obviously that was just like not working. And so once I upgraded my lens, I was like, Oh wow, these are amazing. And then I upgraded my camera. I was like, Oh wow, these are even better. So I think it was just learning how to use my gear and editing and learn about my style and editing consistently and having it always be similar that, that took a couple of years of figuring out how to edit and in ways that like, I've always liked brighter photography, but there's been times that I've edited way too bright or times of edited way too dark. So I had to find the good medium to where, you know, you could still see the skin tone, still see the white and the image where it's not blown out. And that took a couple of years, but those were things like blown out images with something I would always do or just, you know, terrible like contrasted images that were like way too contrast or something.

Raymond Hatfield: 11:14 Do you think that's pretty standard across the board across the all types of photographers?

Jessica Bellinger: 11:20 Oh yeah. Well, well, I mean, like when you get started, everybody's editing is like kind of wonky. You really have to grow, grow into your style and it takes a while because you have to learn how to use all the tools like you have to learn, you know, and that stuff like takes years. I'm still finding things in Lightroom. I didn't realize were there, you know?

Raymond Hatfield: 11:37 Yeah, of course, of course. What about recently then what what's what's something that you're doing now in editing that you feel like is really putting that signature on your images?

Jessica Bellinger: 11:48 I actually recently am like starting to like fine tune my editing style a little bit more. As I mentioned, I had always a photograph or a I'm a hybrid shooter, so I shoot with film. So I always edited to match a film look. But I'm starting to get into like a more, not a digital look, but a little more vibrant because some of the film is that like a little less saturated than I would like, cause I'm always warming it up and making it more vibrant. So that's something I'm kind of like fine tuning right now is just creating images. Like no matter what the medium is, like just images that I love for a while. I was trying so hard to emulate film that I kind of got lost in my actual style. Cause I was just trying to follow this one particular style, but it wasn't even necessarily like my, my whole entire style. Because I do like really warm images. I do like to add, you know, a little bit more depth in the dark parts, you know, I like not necessary cause I'm not a moody photographer, but I definitely enjoy like that more dramatic, like some more drama and using shadows and using harsh light. I love that kind of stuff. And that's something I put off for a very long time and my style is still the same. It's just getting better. It's just getting like more rich.

Raymond Hatfield: 13:17 Isn't that interesting how you can like go back and look at those first photos and in one hand, think to yourself, like, what was I thinking? But on the other hand, look at those photos and say, I see where I was like, I see what I was trying to do with this image. And today maybe it wouldn't be too far off from this, but yeah, that's really interesting why it doesn't really change. You're just refining it. You're just fine tuning it. Yeah. Yeah. That I got to think about.

Jessica Bellinger: 13:43 I feel like I've been trying to accomplish the same type of images my whole entire career. Okay.

Raymond Hatfield: 13:50 Can you describe that? Like, could you describe what those images are?

Jessica Bellinger: 13:54 I want to say like vibrant, lively. I really love earthy tones. I'm not, I don't use a lot of, I really don't use any artificial light unless I have to ever. So I'm really like inspired by just like natural tones, but also like warmth. So, so I I've been adding more and more warm thing. Cause for a while it was super, super neutral, keeping my images like really neutral, but I'm just like, I don't know, like I'm starting to really like more punch in them, I guess like a little punchier, but still natural. Like I, like, I don't want to overdo it and be, you know, too moody, too colorful to where it looks unnatural. I still want it natural, but I just want it like more vibrant. I really don't know what my style is. Just I'm sure if someone else looks at it, they, they could be like, Oh, her style is yada yada, but it's hard for me because that feels so over the place. Oh,

Raymond Hatfield: 14:52 I get that 100%. One of the exercises that I tell like premium members of the group which is all focused on like the business side of photography is that like, you need to figure out what your style is. And one of the best ways to do that is to remove yourself from the equation, take five of your favorite photos, post them on Facebook, ask people to, you know, use three adjectives to describe your work. And you'd be surprised at how easy people can be like your work is this, you know, it's, it's, it's vibrant, it's joyous, it's warm, you know, all these things. And then when we look at it, we're like, Oh my gosh, like that's, that's what it is, but we never could have come up with with all that on our own. So 100% understand that 100%. Yeah. When it comes to your book, I want to talk a little bit about that, right? The humility paradox, paradox. Tell me about, you know, I, I mentioned there in the intro that your start in photography in life was kind of a rough one. And where you are today, I would say, you know, after reading a book completely different person. So talk to me a little bit about the book and, and why you wrote it.

Jessica Bellinger: 15:59 Okay. So for those wondering why my life was rough, so you're not left in the dark. So when I was 16, I dropped out of high school just, just to give everyone a backstory. And I, I basically left my house. I was just hanging out at friend's houses. I had an alcohol problem, which now I'm sober. I'm like 15 months sober, almost 16 months because that did stretch on, you know, through my marriage. It was, you know, something I had just always dealt with. But so I was just like, basically a mess. Like, like it's such a bad mess. I mean, I was like, I will never amount to anything. Even as a new mom, I just never fit in with the other moms. I was like, I still feel like a kid. Like, I just have always felt like a kid.

Jessica Bellinger: 16:45 Like I'm like, I'm so unprepared for a career life. I've never been good at anything. I think that was my hardest thing is I was never good at anything. I was never good at school. I was never good at being a good friend. I was never good at caring about other people or doing anything with my life. So when I became a mom, I kind of got, you know, I identified only as a mom at that point. I was just, I kind of fell out of any, I just basically lost myself to being, I just became like a shell of a person. And so after my second I kind of went through like a meltdown. And then that's when I picked up again, it was, it was just a hard few years. And then, so I ended up writing the book about like I started writing it about a year and a half ago, maybe like a year ago.

Jessica Bellinger: 17:42 And I wrote it more as journaling because I had an epiphany after I had my first about humility and my walk with humility started more so where I was aware of my pride. I didn't necessarily do anything to fix it. I just saw it. And I think that's the first step is just awareness. And it was years of awareness without any actual, like physical changing of it. I just, you know, I saw it and I lived with it. And that's what it takes us. Sometimes it takes years of awareness and knowing where your pride is. And sometimes you still fight with that pride and you don't want to change it, but eventually you get to the point where since your brain is changing, the way that you think you start to make conscious changes, physical changes, like it starts to actually pour out into your life.

Jessica Bellinger: 18:33 So that's what my book kind of talks about is it starts with awareness. And so I basically wrote the book by accident. I was just journaling more so about my walk with humility. You know, I started about six months after I went sober. So my mind was so clear. I felt like I learned so much. I, every single year I felt like I grew five years. Like every year I learned so quickly that I was like jumping into like five years of wisdom each year. And that's not to brag on myself. That's just, I learned very quickly, like I learned the hard way very quickly, fortunately, because some people don't learn. So I kind of wrote it as journaling. And then I eventually got to the point where I was like, wow, I have, you know, a couple of hundred pages.

Jessica Bellinger: 19:20 I should probably make this into a book. So I hired someone to help me organize it, edit it, you know, put it together. And then I published it and it was just, it kind of happened more. So again, I had no expectations of it becoming a book or starting a business. It was really out of pure passion for that subject. It was a subject I always thought about it was a subject, especially in times now where we see social media, people acting like crazy people. I kind of channeled my frustration for the way people were acting in to talking about humility, because I felt like that was the actual, tangible idea people could grasp and it can actually transform the way that they feel about things going on, the way that they deal with it. You know, a lot of it's really hard right now.

Jessica Bellinger: 20:04 So I feel like people need to understand, you know, where their pride is hiding within all these hardships and how they can practice humility to make it not only easier for everyone else, but also easier for them because when you practice humility, you're never at a loss. You have so much more to gain and there's a lot of pride hiding in the way that we're treating each other right now. And the way that we're treating our circumstances. And people wouldn't know that it's pride, you know, until they read a book that maybe outlines where their pride is hiding, you know, just in the way they talk to people or the way they perceive things going on.

Raymond Hatfield: 20:41 First of all, that was a wonderful explanation. And I think that you have an interesting perspective as being a photographer yourself. So I'm interested to hear this from you, but where do you think that as other photographers or as photographers, our pride is hiding?

Jessica Bellinger: 20:59 Hm. Well, if you're in any photography groups, I'm sure you've seen people just complain about my new things. And I actually, I had to stop myself a few years ago. It wasn't a lot of basically groups for complaining, like it was for complaining and I had to leave them. I was like, and just do things on my own. I had to stop listening to people. Stop listening to, you know, the narrative of just dehumanizing certain things within the photography business of, Oh, it's a business. Why are people calling me not during office hours? You know, it's just like, you, you, you gotta be a human first before you were a business owner. And so it's really important to remember, to be human and to not listen to everybody and to do things your own way and to break the rules. I'm really big on breaking the rules because part of our pride is it wants us to do what everyone else is doing because it's, it's scared of maybe figuring out on our own that if, if we do something on our own and we mess up, then it would hurt our pride. Right. So so I think it's important to break the rules in order to kind of determine I totally lost what I was talking about.

Raymond Hatfield: 22:23 I get it now I get where you were going, you know, with it's very easy to there's there's that chart. And I've seen this chart everywhere. It's like your graph of photography knowledge. And it's like, when you're in the beginning, this graph is like incredibly high because we perceive that we know everything about it. Like we learn what averager is. We, you know, we learn what you know, lenses do or whatever. And we're like, yes, we're at the top. Like we know everything, but as you go on your perceived knowledge of photography continues to go down and down and lower and lower and lower. And fortunately, a lot of these groups are filled with those who are maybe newer to photography. And we get that idea of like, wait, I know what I'm talking about. This is how things should work. Why is this, why is this not happening? Or why is this happening to me? So

Jessica Bellinger: 23:11 It's really easy to get stuck in that elitist attitude. I've seen it from many. And also, as you said, yeah, just realizing that you could be wrong on anything you're talking about. When you get into learning and realizing that, you know, maybe you could be wrong about the way that you learn things and be open to learning. So be open to taking advice, even from people who you would think are lower than you. They still have advice to offer. They still have probably learned things that you haven't. It's very important to keep an open mind in that aspect and say, Hey, maybe I'm doing this wrong. And someone else can teach me. There are so many photographers who have plateaued, where they just haven't grown because they got to a point where they stopped taking advice from people and they stopped even entertaining the idea that anyone has anything to teach them.

Jessica Bellinger: 24:00 I had told a girl one time Hey, I'm in this really great group. And you should join it. Like they talk so much about photography and business, yada, yada. And she's been doing it for a while, but like, I just thought that she would enjoy the group. I wasn't trying to, you know, make her feel weird or anything. She goes, Oh, well, I've been doing this for a while. So maybe I, I have advice to give, but I don't need any advice. And I was like, wow, it's like that kind of attitude that a lot of people do have, but I was like, you know, that's not okay.

Raymond Hatfield: 24:28 Right. One of my favorite portrait photographers and past guests of the podcast, Chris Orwick said that everybody who he photographs the way that he photographed them is that he tells himself that they know something that he doesn't know. And that it's his job to kind of find something new from every person who he interacts with, which is always taking that beginner's mentality, which which I love so much. But going back to you know, that idea of business of photography and, you know doing things right. You know, when we're in the beginning, early stages of a photography business, there's just, you know, when we're unsure of, of who we are and what our message is, we try a million different marketing techniques. So over the years for you, what have you found to be working the best to attract new clients for you today?

Mid: 25:25 You are listening to the free version of the beginner photography podcast, where each week you learn how world-class photographers see and capture the world around them. If you want to hear the extended interview with their best business tips, to learn how to make money with your camera and then become a premium member today, by heading over to beginner photography, podcast.com and click the premium membership button to join now.

Raymond Hatfield: 25:49 Right? Oh my gosh, that I think that that pretty much summed up exactly. Kind of where I, I see this struggle in my head, like that's summed it up perfectly well as, as well as you know, I have to thank you for sharing. That was a pretty detailed breakdown of, you know, how you use Facebook ads and kind of the strategy that you use around it to not only obviously get people to your website with that awesome blog, post idea, but getting bookings and why so many photographers, you know, say that it's not working, but, you know, as you said, it is, it is. So again, thank you for, for sharing that. Thank you. In your book you say that humility treats every person like they're the most important person in the room. Every life has equal value, even if you are convinced that somebody else doesn't deserve that value because they either cheated on or cheated, you lied to you stole from you. And then later in the book you share that you were once late to a shoot because, you know, there was no parking or something and the family just chewed you out. So please help me understand how you still treat this person as if they are the most important in the room. When you know, you've had enough that you're ready to just cut ties,

Jessica Bellinger: 27:05 Right? Well, I'm luckily very patient and just let them run their course. And I was just like, okay, I will do what you guys need to do. You know, I'm just going to shut my mouth. I did call my husband after pretty upset. You know, it was definitely very confusing because I'm a really nice person. I don't, I was not trying to do anything to make them upset. I literally couldn't find parking. It was out of my hand. So I, I knew that it wasn't me, it was them. And I just had to forgive them and serve them the best I could no matter what, try to make their day as okay as possible. I wasn't the only person they yelled at. So I, I understood it. Wasn't just me, but you know, it's hard. I've been hurt by a few clients and even at other jobs I've had not even necessarily photography.

Jessica Bellinger: 27:57 And you just, and I know we know this and to not act out to not, you know, yell at people, yell back at them. But yeah, I mean, they, you, you have to love those kind of people, even harder and your love and your like life's meaning is basically measured on how you love people that treat you poorly. Cause that's where the real test comes. It's easy to love people that are easy to love, but it's hard to love people that are hard to love. So I feel like our life's purpose, it really boils down to how we treat those people that are hard to love. And that really shows our character more than how we treat people that are easy to love.

Raymond Hatfield: 28:42 So I totally understand what you're saying right there, but sometimes there's just going to be people who are not worth your energy, you know? Like what is it worth to you? Like we were talking about, and there have been couples there's been families that I have said to myself immediately afterwards, I'm never going to work with them.

Jessica Bellinger: 29:01 Oh yeah, no. I said that about these people. I would never work with them again. Yeah, you have to set up boundaries. And I mean, if someone is completely inappropriate, you know, stand your ground, lovingly, be like, you know, excuse me, but this is not how we're doing this. Definitely, you know, stand up for yourself, but in a loving way, there, there's still a way to, you know, deal with these people lovingly, even if you've never worked with them again. You know, and sometimes you do have to do that and be like, you know, this is enough. No, thank you. We're not doing it this way. You can't talk to me like that. It didn't get so out of hand that I had to do that, but it definitely you know, if did, I would have had to do that, but it was only like a two hour elopement and they like, you know, chewed me up with, within an hour and two I'm just like, Oh my gosh. Oh no. Oh no. I was like, this was supposed to be easy.

Raymond Hatfield: 29:56 Yeah. This is only going to be two hours. I was going to get this done. So does any of that ever affect as far as like, you know, the things that you like, would you not post something of theirs on social media? Would you maybe, if you had two sessions that you were editing, maybe work on the other session first, like, are these things that we, that are okay or is this something that we just, you know, just got to grin and bear?

Jessica Bellinger: 30:21 Well, well there's cause it was like mostly inside, so I wasn't going to post it anyways. Just because it wasn't necessarily my style, but they were happy with the photo flake. Like they didn't give me grief afterwards at all. I don't think they even realized the way that they were treating me. Like, I think that's just how that they were. So now obviously if they were upset with me still after I'm not going to post their photos, I'm not going to give them more attention. But it actually made me work on their photos faster. Cause I just wanted to be done. I just want to be done with it. I wanted them gone and just not to deal with it anymore. But they loved the photos. So I, you know, it, it was definitely weird. It just depends on the situation. You know, there's been times where bad tastes has been left in my mouth and I, I just don't want to look at those photos again. So I don't post them because I just don't want to remember, you know, all the trauma. But I, I don't treat them differently. I don't edit slower because of it. You know, if anything, I probably edit faster, so I don't have to keep it in my head anymore.

Raymond Hatfield: 31:26 I, I, I feel like, I feel like I'm not that I'm painting you in a box or anything or that I'm like putting your feet. I feel like I'm putting your feet to the fire here, you know, and then I'm really trying to, what I'm trying to get at here is that, you know, when it comes to humility, when it comes to operating a business I feel like sometimes these can be two separate things because we as humans as much as we want to help out as much as possible as well, as much as we want to you know, be a member, a contributing member of society, we're still just emotional people inside, you know? And that there are days where, you know, I have a bad day and unfortunately that affects, you know, the people around me. And if that's a client that makes it tough because as you know, running a business is already hard.

Raymond Hatfield: 32:13 You know, photography is not as easy as just pressing a button. And when they make that harder on me, sometimes I kind of, you know, ask myself, I don't know, like, what am I doing here? Do I want to continue to do this? Cause I know that there were sessions in the beginning for me that I delivered it. And I'm thinking of one specifically where it was a, it was a mom, it was a family and their daughter. She was like 19 months. Right. She was still very young and she had a cold. So all of her photos, you know, big red nose and she's looking all snotty and like her eyes are kind of half closed and it was like the winter time. And you know, I did what I could do, but the mom basically said, you know, what can we do about these photos? Cause like they're garbage. Like I don't want any of these photos. And my reaction is, that's not my fault. You know, this is your daughter, she's the one who's sick. So I dunno, there, there, wasn't really a question in there, but is there anything that you kind of picked out of that to to talk to him?

Jessica Bellinger: 33:14 As far

Raymond Hatfield: 33:15 As the human psychology goes,

Jessica Bellinger: 33:17 Well, I talk about this in my book is you, you have to understand sometimes people's expectations are way out of line and you have to understand that that's not always your fault. And you just have to learn that people are imperfect and they're going to try to blame you. You know, and I'm, I'm someone who I don't take crap if people, if people are really being mean to me or really picking on me you know, but I, but I'm also very merciful, like I'm patient. I understand, you know, that people are imperfect. And I just think it's really important to remember that people are going to give you crap and hell throughout your career. And that's just what happens when you were in a service-based industry, because photography is service-based, you're dealing with people and trying to please them. And you have to learn to forgive people and not let it make you better towards the industry as a whole.

Jessica Bellinger: 34:07 But if you're feeling yourself so drained, maybe it's time to move on to a different type of photography or a different type of business. And that's kind of why I started my online business. I also sell cosmetics online. I sell nail Polish. And so I started that because I did want to move away from being so service-based all the time I still do weddings and stuff, but I also wanted something else, some sort of income to lean on so that I was not completely at the mercy of my photography clients. I wanted, you know, a little bit more freedom, which I'm still at the mercy of nail Polish clients, but it's just over email now. Like I don't have to deal with them in person. So that kind of makes it nice. But you know, and sometimes you need to change and pivot and I end up, so maybe one day I'll be doing e-commerce and then just be doing photography for my family for fun and for things that I love and enjoy, and I won't be doing weddings as much. So yeah. Wow.

Raymond Hatfield: 35:09 Thank you for kind of taking my my tangent of a of a question and forming it into something with with with a reasonable answer. So I appreciate,

Jessica Bellinger: 35:19 Yeah, I'm really good at taking questions and talking about something completely different. I forget, I forget the question by the end of whatever I'm talking about, because I've gone on some sort of other like, Oh my brain, just like, doesn't stay in one place,

Raymond Hatfield: 35:34 Yell out ideas. I get it. I get it. I get it. I want to ask about one of your chapters in the book it's called do you really deserve that? And I think that you hit home, something that I know is holding a lot of new photographers back, and that is kind of this idea of either my photos are way better. Why are they getting all the work? And I'm not, but also their photos are so much better than mine. Who am I to even try and compete at that level. Can you talk about who deserves to be a great photographer and who does not,

Jessica Bellinger: 36:13 Who really deserve stuff for the people who don't believe that they deserve anything? Those are the people who generally win or are on top and not necessarily in what they get, but in the idea that their life is rich, that they really, you really grow richly when you have no expectations of what you might deserve. And so as for that being a photographer, I think that I've seen so much of it photographers getting jealous of each other. I have lost friends who saw me breaking into the industry and doing really well. And I could tell that they were jealous and backed away from me. And I was just like, why? You know, you have so much to offer as well. We have different things to offer. And, Oh gosh, I've seen the jealousy so much. I don't, I've, I've seen it, you know, really discourage people from wanting to even try because they see someone else doing better and doing it quicker.

Jessica Bellinger: 37:12 You know, sometimes you get backhanded comments from friends because of it. And it's, you know, it's just like, there, there is no rhyme or reason. Some people, it takes them 10 years. Some people, it takes them two years. And it's okay, no matter what, because, cause that's not what it's about. It's about enjoying your passion. It's about making extra money. If you can. It's not a competition it's not about who is better. Who's more popular in the groups who has the most followers. It's just about doing what you're passionate about. And if you're only focused on that, then nothing else is going to matter. You're not going to get jealous of the people around you. But if you're focused on all the wrong things, all the things that are linked to your ego then you are going to get jealous of the people around you because you're more focused on your pride than you are about just being a decent person and living a good life. And and so yeah

Raymond Hatfield: 38:09 It does, I was going to say, I really, and I've said this before. I don't think that there's a better way to end this podcast than that right there. Because again, that really is something that so many people struggle with that as the idea of, you know, th th there's the, there's the two, there's those two thought patterns, you know, either I'm not good enough for this, or I'm way better than this. How is this happening to me? And I think that for both of those, you explained that well, and kind of a mindset shift as far as how to kind of how to deal with that. So Jessica, before I let you go, can you let the listeners know where they can find you online and keep up with everything that you're doing?

Jessica Bellinger: 38:50 Yeah. So I have like seven Instagrams, but this is one of them that you can find in it. It kind of links to my other ones. It's Jessica Bell, photog, P H O T O G. Jessica Bell photog on Instagram and it links to my other ones. I have like a book, Instagram, a podcast, Instagram, a my e-commerce my personal, so you can find it there. And then I have a website, Jessica bellenger.com.