Bryan Caporicci is an award-winning wedding and portrait photographer based out of Fonthill, Canada. In 2014, he was awarded his Masters of Photographic Arts (MPA) designation by the Professional Photographers of Canada (PPOC), making him one of the youngest Canadian photographers to receive this level of achievement.

Bryan is the host of the Business of Photography Podcast with over 2 million downloads. He teaches at workshops across North America, including industry-leading conventions and conferences such as WPPI, Shutterfest and Canada Photo Convention. Bryan is also the CEO and Founder of Sprout Studio.

In today’s interview, Bryan talks about the key aspects of photography to focus on when just getting started.

Become A Premium Member to access to more in-depth questions to help move your growing photo business forward!

In This Episode You'll Learn:

• What is Clubhouse for photographers

• Who Bryan is and how he got started in photography

• His earliest struggles and how he overcame them

• How to avoid overwhelm when just learning photography

• What Bryan hopes to achieve by shooting film for personal work

Premium Members Also Learn:

• What to focus on now to build a business foundation

• How to leverage local relationships to build bookings

• The 3 most important pillars of stating a photo business

• The paradox of the growing heap and how it will help you better understand bookings

Resources:

• Bryan Caporicci Wedding Photography

• The Business of Photography Podcast

• Sprout Studio - All in one studio management for photographers

Standout Quotes:

• "It was my marketing skills, just the fact that I looked at what I did as an entrepreneur...that's what got me to where I was". - [Bryan]

• "Take it a step at a time, I think that's probably the biggest mistake that I see photographers make, especially in those early days". - [Bryan]

• "That's when you become a good wedding photographer when you can look at things and go beyond the technical". - [Bryan]

• "Every overnight success is an overnight success 10 years in the making". - [Bryan]

• "The future is cheap if you pay for it now". - [Raymond]

• "Everyone wants success, no one wants to put in the work that success requires". - [Bryan]

• "Whatever gear you have, is all that you need right now". - [Bryan]

Key Takeaways:

• "Clubhouse" is an audio-only social media tool, that allows people to connect either as photographers or with other professionals

• Bryan shares he has always had a passion for the business side of photography.

• His experience knowing that most photographers aren't well equipped on the business side motivated the founding of Sprout Studios to offer strategies and tools to help photographers run their business.

• While most photographers start with an interest in photography and then later incorporate the business side, Bryan had been involved with the business side first but moved into photography after splitting up with his partner who was running the photography aspect of things.

• Starting, he took up photography on a small scale largely involving sports including all the local sports teams which helped him learn, create systems, and build his skill.

• The biggest challenge about weddings is the fast pace not only due to the number of events going on at each moment but also technical changes you need to make, to adjust for each shot.

• Bryan describes defined paths for a new photographer: First, you need to understand the technicals, then learn how to do it under pressure, and then learn how to find moments.

• Emphasizing the importance of having a mindset to put in the time necessary for growth, Bryan stresses the role of 2nd shooting as an intern, to learn the ropes.

• The rewards of being an entrepreneur are beautiful but it takes work to get them, and the early days are always the hardest.

• Don't chase the gear.

Did you enjoy this episode? Check out more recent interviews with other great guests!

Full Episode Transcription:

Disclaimer: The transcript was transcribed electronically by Temi.com and may contain errors that do not reflect accurately what the speaker said. Because of this, please do not quote this automated transcript, it is only intended as a reference.

Raymond Hatfield (00:00:00):

A few weeks ago. I saw one of your posts on Facebook, pop-up saying, Hey, who's, who's on clubhouse, this new social media app. Right. And you were doing a talk on wedding photography and it was like this hangout for wedding photographers. So right away, I thought I gotta get in on this. I got to join this new social media platform. And I have to learn of course from the master Bryan Caporicci here, and this whole thing, while I was there, it just like blew my mind. It was, it was very immersive and it was very entertaining. So for those who, I guess don't know yet who haven't heard of it, can you kind of fill them in on what is clubhouse and why it's so different because you've totally become an evangelist for this new app. And I would love to hear your thoughts on this,

Bryan Caporicci (00:00:45):

For sure. Yeah. I it's, it's a ton of fun. I mean, I think the timing of clubhouse and, and we can back up and I can talk about what specifically it is, but like, let's just acknowledge for a moment. The timing of it was perfect. I mean, with where we are right now, you know, where, where we've come in 2020 where we are in 2021 we, as humans are seeking connection, like we're seeking the ability to collaborate and talk and network and like be together. And we, you know, we can't in our industry, we can't do it, you know, at WPPI workshops, conventions like this, that doesn't exist. So what do we do? We all go to Facebook and we chat on Facebook, but it just, there's a certain something missing, you know, when you just do like this text-based communication. So clubhouse is basically like being at a convention, it's a virtual convention, more or less, right?

Bryan Caporicci (00:01:32):

You have this like main hallway, which is like the main, you know, newsfeed, like we're used to doing Facebook where you just can kinda sort of scroll through the hallway. And what you're scrolling through are a bunch of different rooms of all the people that you follow. And they're basically in a room having conversations. So imagine you're at WPPI, you're walking down the hallway and you see your room and you're like, Oh, that's cool. Raymond's in that room. And it says that they're talking about marketing. So you kind of can, like, you can step into the room and you can just kind of like hang out in the audience. And you can listen to these 10 people on stage who are talking about marketing. And if you want to add something to the conversation, you raise your hand, you go up on stage, you can add, and then you go back to the audience.

Bryan Caporicci (00:02:10):

Or if you have a question, you raise your hand, ask the question, go back into the audience. And that's basically what club has is, is it's an audio only social media tool that just allows us to connect, to converse, to have conversations, to to teach, to learn to network. It's just, it's a ton of fun and there's so many great conversations happening over there. And so many great ways to connect with each other as photographers with other wedding professionals or just to like hang out and learn things that you want to learn. If you want to learn about Bitcoin or you want to go like, you know, last night Tesla was on there. You know what I mean? Like doing all these, it's just like, you can really do do anything, but it's just an opportunity to dive in and to, and to connect in an audio only format. So it takes away that fear that so many people have of like, you know, zoom, fatigue, or being on video and all that. You just kind of put your AirPods on and you can listen and connect while you're doing something else.

Raymond Hatfield (00:03:14):

And that's, that's exactly what I was doing. I put it in the AirPods. I went and started walking on the treadmill and I was like, this feels totally different than everything else that we've had before. And even like with live, you know, even if you join some sort of live conversation on Facebook, there's this element that you're still watching somebody who is live and that's it. And even like, if you leave a comment or whatever, you're still kind of behind this veil of a computer, but with clubhouse, like you can actually talk to these people. And I got to say the other day there was a chat room with with Joe Greer who is big into film photography on YouTube. And I thought to myself, I was like, Whoa, like here's Joe Greer. Like, imagine if I just, you know, walked into the store and there was Joe Greer, you know, and here he was talking about a film and it was just, it was, it's just, it's a really new platform obviously, but it's a lot of fun.

Raymond Hatfield (00:04:04):

And I had a great time connecting with you and Devin who was there as well. So, so that was a great time. And I'm glad to get you back on the show today, obviously, but you know, there's gonna be a lot of longtime listeners who are going to remember that you were back on the show in a, it was episode 60. So this is like 2017. So it's been a long time. It's been awhile. It's been, it's been a while, but for those who maybe haven't been listening that long, I'm sure that a few people have maybe just got a camera over the holidays for Christmas. Can you reintroduce yourself to, to them as far as who you are in how photography plays a role in your life?

Bryan Caporicci (00:04:39):

Yeah, for sure. First of all, congratulations on, I mean, you know, you with your podcast, Raymond, it's like running a podcast is, is a lot of work. And I know that cause we have,

Raymond Hatfield (00:04:50):

Okay. I know that you have to episode 450, like this is bananas. Yeah.

Bryan Caporicci (00:04:53):

Yeah. I mean, it's, it's cool and it's fun and it's great, but like, you know what, what maybe a lot of listeners don't know is like getting past episode 20 is a huge milestone. And then past 50 is a huge milestone. And then past a hundred is a huge milestone. Like 1% of podcasts make it there. So the fact that we had a chance to talk back in 2017 on episode 60, and now we're still talking again today. I don't know what episode number this is going to be, but my quick math says, so say my quick math says, it's at least 200, so congratulations to you on that. Yeah. Anyways. Yeah. So, so about me. So I've been a professional wedding and portrait photographer for 15 years. I'm here in Niagara, Ontario, Canada, and I've been full time making a living, supporting my family as a sole income provider for 15 years.

Bryan Caporicci (00:05:37):

My wife and I, we have three kids. She's a stay at home mom. And you know, the living that we have and the life we have is because the money I've made with my camera. And I've always had a passion for the business side of photography which I think makes me a bit of a weirdo in our space. Cause I'm not like the starving artists type, you know, I, I actually do like the business side, the, the selling the pricing so on and so forth. And so I've been teaching business to photographers for about 10 years. I've written a handful of books. The one book that I wrote called pricing for profits actually used in colleges and universities is a textbook to teach, you know, up and coming photographers, how to price themselves. So the business side is something I have a huge passion for, and I really love and I love to help photographers because most photographers get into photography because they love photography, not necessarily because they're like, Oh, I want to be an entrepreneur.

Bryan Caporicci (00:06:27):

Maybe I'll make money with my camera. And it's like, no, they think of it the other way. You know, they just stumble into it. So I like to be there to help them, to give them guidance, to give them advice, to give them, you know, strategies that have worked. Cause I I've been there and I've done it for 15 years. And that all led me about six or seven years ago to start and to be the founder of what's now Sproat studio. So it's a software that helps photographers run their business. So we give them the knowledge and the strategies and the insight on the education side. But then we also have a tool that they can use to actually execute these things and run their business. So that's, that's me in 60 seconds,

Raymond Hatfield (00:07:05):

Man. Yeah, you could go, you could go on so much longer just because of the amount of accomplishments that you have, not only from your photographic capabilities and the awards that you've won there. But as you're saying, I think helping out photographers now, it seems as kind of become like your mission, you know, and this past year I've seen you take a huge step forward in the amount of content that you come out with and, or the types of content that you come out with specifically geared towards helping those other photographers. And I know that there's a lot of other I dunno systems out there for, for the business side of things. But yours is obviously focused on photographers and all the content that you come out with is as well. And it's great to see your experience, you know, kind of shine through in all of that. But before you got to this point to where you are today, there was a beginning, right? And this, since this is the beginning of photography podcasts, I want to know more about that. So what was it in the beginning that, that, what was it that first told you? You know what, I think photography is going to play a large, a large role in my life here.

Bryan Caporicci (00:08:11):

Oh, the funny thing, and I don't talk about this too much, but the funny thing about my my beginning in photography was all back up to, I guess it would have been like 2000, 2005. I I was in school for computer science. I was going to university for computer science and because I was like the computer science guy, of course, like you're the guy that everyone goes to for computer help and questions and whatever. Cause you know, everything apparently. So I actually got a summer job working for another photographer. I didn't know anything about photography. I had no interest. I got a job working for this other photographer who did like gymnastics events. So we would go to different gymnastics events around Ontario and he would sort of deploy a crew of photographers to photograph gymnast on the floors and at the various sort of stations.

Bryan Caporicci (00:08:58):

And then they would all bring it back to me at this booth that we had set up. And because again, I was the computer guy and these, this is early days of digital two, right. 2005 was, that was a very different day and age than it is now. So we would basically core processors on, Oh, it was, it was insane. Yeah. So back then, and for reference for anyone that, you know, we're used to light room and all these things now that didn't even exist, like Lightroom wasn't around then. I know I was like, we actually curved the pictures on pieces of stone. So we use a software called was it AC, AC DC or ACD or OCD of some software like that? The logo was orange. I can still picture it. Anyways, they would all bring them back. I would offload them onto the, onto the computers.

Bryan Caporicci (00:09:40):

I would do selections and then I would get them ready for a slide show that the parents could then come back and look at the photos. They would pick which ones they wanted and we would print them on for them right then and there. So it was like this onsite event, photography thing. Again, I was doing the computer side, not the photography side. So my entrepreneurial brain got spinning cause I've always been entrepreneurial in my thinking. And him and I started a side company called memories in motion and we did what we call and we thought we were fancy back then. And we called it digital memory preservation, which is like, so like what a, what a mouthful. But again, this is like early days of digital. So the fact that we could do these like fancy slide shows or DVD, these advanced DVD menus with like buttons that you could click to play to different slideshows, it was like, it was all the rage back then.

Bryan Caporicci (00:10:28):

Right. So we did that and did, did pretty well doing that and him and I just kind of went two different directions and but I was loving what we were doing. He was always the photography side. I was always the tech side. And so when we split, I was like, well, I want to keep running this company. But I don't know anything about photography. So I basically took over the company I had when he called memories in motion and I walked into Henry's a camera store here locally. And I said, Hey, so I have a photography business. I need to buy a camera, what I'm doing right away. So that was like that basically, you know, the start. And then from there, obviously I fell in love with photography through the discovery of it. But for me, I started it as an entrepreneur first because I saw the opportunity.

Bryan Caporicci (00:11:11):

I saw the excitement of running my own thing. And photography just happened to be the space that I fell into. And then over the next 15 years, I've, I've obviously fallen in love with photography and the creative side and the ability to make images and say something with my camera. But I started as a, as an entrepreneur first and then found photography. So it's an interesting dynamic because again, like I said earlier, most photographers start in the opposite direction. Right. Of like loving photography and then wanting to start a business. I was the opposite. So that, those were kind of like the early days. And I think I attribute that to the success that I've been able to achieve in, in my own way. As a photographer, because you know, my first year of shooting weddings, I booked 32 weddings of shooting weddings. And it's like, and I believe it's not because necessarily I was a better photographer than anyone, even though I think I, you know, I did a, did a pretty good job as a photographer. It was my, my marketing skills, my, my selling skills. Just the fact that I looked at what I did as an entrepreneur, as a business person. That's what got me to it.

Raymond Hatfield (00:12:13):

So you decided right from the beginning, once you bought that camera, you were like, you had decided to go into weddings at that point or were you still doing some sports?

Bryan Caporicci (00:12:20):

I did. I did two seasons of sports. I did that and I think I remember one specific time where, so I would do like the, you know, like the team and individual picture where you'd have like a basketball under your arm and be like cheese and then do that like 5,000 times, like on a weekend. Cause I would do all the local. I did all the local basketball, the local soccer associations. We did tennis, we did baseball. Like I, I did everything. And then we ended up doing live events and things like that. And it was good. It was fine. Like it was, I was enjoying it. It was able to help me learn photography and build the business and build the systems and build the team and do all those things. Again. I was like an 18 year old kid too. So here I was like, Holy cow. But I just, I was never fulfilled. I've never been a sports guy myself and I wasn't really fulfilled creatively doing that because it's assembly line photography. There's nothing wrong with it, but just for me, I just didn't, I didn't love it. So I kind of quickly transitioned away from that and into weddings after like a year or two type of thing. And yeah, that first year of shooting weddings, I booked 32 weddings.

Raymond Hatfield (00:13:23):

So let's talk about that progression for you as far as that learning curve, because it, I would say, I don't want to get these words next step, as you said, when it comes to like assembly line type photos, once you kind of figure out your settings, it's just rinse and repeat all day long, whereas a wedding entirely different, you're constantly changing settings. So is there a big learning curve for you there or by the time you had gotten into weddings where you already pretty proficient with the camera to where you were able to get in there? Yeah,

Bryan Caporicci (00:13:51):

I think it was like the way that I see things and analyze things and break things down and understand them. I mean, that's, what's gotten me to where I am now with sprout, but I even think back then there were signs of that where there was this like, you know, mass production element to like the sports photography, but I always looked at it differently. I always really looked at it as challenges. How can I do things differently? I didn't want to do the same kind of work that like, you know, your Justin's was doing or like, you know, those kinds of things. So I did always look at it a little bit more creatively than probably others may have at the time. And in doing so I did, I did have to learn and figure out lighting and understand settings. And then also, because we were doing live events, you know, photographing a basketball tournament or a baseball tournament and all that, there was this training of being able to catch the right moment and understand settings and learn shutter speeds and how they interact with different things and aperture and what you want to get in focus.

Bryan Caporicci (00:14:45):

And so there was an element. And back then too, if you, I don't know if like thinking back what camera would have I had back in the day cannon something, I don't know, the Canon 30 D or maybe even the Canon 20 D it's like you couldn't shoot over ISO 800 without like having golf balls everywhere in your picture. Right. So like, you know, you had to really understand the technical side. And because I was, I was very technical in my thinking. I did learn that stuff quickly. Now. I second shot weddings those first two years as I was doing the sports photography. So I learned a lot through that. I was basically working like three full-time jobs, right? Like running the photography business itself. I was still a student at the time still. And then also every weekend I was second shooting with a local photographer. So I was shooting, you know, 20 weddings every summer learning as a second shooter as an assistant, just figuring out how things go. So by the time I did actually break out and do my own weddings, I had probably 50 weddings under my belt that I had second shot for. So I learned through that

Raymond Hatfield (00:15:48):

Of course experience. Yeah. That's, that's gotta be one of the best ways to learn. Yeah, I think, you know, anybody can attest that. We can read books all day on technicals and settings and whatnot, but it's not until you actually get behind the camera and you do these things that you realize, Oh, either this works or this doesn't work. So when you had first went to those, you know, few weddings as a second, was there anything that really caught you off guard and you, you struggled with, as far as the photography goes

Bryan Caporicci (00:16:17):

I would say the biggest, the biggest challenge about weddings and anyone that's photographed weddings you know, can can empathize with this. It's just like the fast, the fast moving, the fast pace of a wedding. You know, that's, that's not only photographically is that constantly changing, right? Like you're, you're in, you're in a bride's house and you're in your bio window back lit and then all of a sudden your front leg, and then all of a sudden you're this, and then you turn around and there's a flower girl that looks cute and you need to get that shot. And then you go downstairs in the basement and it's pitch dark, and then you got to go up here and do, it's like you're constantly changing. So not only is there like continual technical challenges that you have to be able to think about, but it happens like lightning fast, right?

Bryan Caporicci (00:16:58):

Like it's, and then the pace, and then the stress of the wedding and things are getting heated, dad's yelling, and this is this and the little girl's crying and like all these things that kind of, for me, that was the biggest thing was like, I could not, and I see this even now on photographers, newer photographers, you know, like understanding the technical is obviously that's the first, that's the first step, like get getting over those things. But then from there it's like, yeah, but now figure out that technical in a pressure cooker, right? Like figure those things out under that stress of it. So for me, that was the biggest cause I admittedly I kind of went in feeling really confident in myself as a, as a technical photographer thinking like, Oh, I got this, this is no problem. Like I, I know this stuff off the back of my hand cause I was technical. But then adding the pressure to that it changes the game. So that was probably the biggest, the biggest change for me.

Raymond Hatfield (00:17:47):

I have a, I have a similar, I went to film school. So I learned all the technicals of of cinematography to learn to light for movies. And obviously in a production, you're going to have all the equipment that you need to be able to, you know, light to technically perfect settings. Right. So when I transitioned into wedding photography, I thought does easy. Like I've been, I know exactly what to do here. I know all the settings that I need to do if it's the light and all this stuff and that first wedding I still hate to share this story, but the entire first dance, I shot it at half a second just to make sure. Cause I was like, I got to keep that ISO low, you know, you gotta have, you know, a nice, beautiful grain. Yeah. They didn't use any of those photos.

Raymond Hatfield (00:18:27):

In fact, that couple used a photo of the first dance that another guest took on their cell phone. Yeah. Their first dance is that profile picture. And I, I knew at that moment it was right then at that moment that I realized, Oh man settings are nowhere near as important as so many other factors, you know, like moment, you know? So in a time where new photographers are coming in right now, especially right after the holidays, lots of people get cameras you know, for the holidays and whatnot. There's a lot of things that we can be focusing on and it can be very overwhelming because quickly you realize, Oh, this is, this is really more than just pressing a button. So for those photographers who were worried what are some of the things that they should be focusing on right now at this stage to kind of avoid potential overwhelm?

Bryan Caporicci (00:19:14):

I, I would say like take it a step at a time. I think that's probably the biggest mistake that I see photographers make, especially in those early days. Actually interestingly enough anecdotally I was in a club host room last night, just kind of hanging out with you know, 60 or 70 other photographers. And there was a conversation that there was a newer photographer. She was, you know, I looked at her Instagram, her work was, was beautiful on her Instagram and she was still a student and she was kind of going on about how she had just finished paying for like a styled shoot to like to participate in this style of shoot. And like, I was like, I kinda, I raised my hand and just started asking questions and, and discussing with her because, because genuinely I don't quite understand it.

Bryan Caporicci (00:19:55):

I, I get that. Like, it's a, it's a thing. But like my, my biggest challenge was like, so what are you trying to show off and do it being something like this because you're in this perfectly styled expensive setup with zero pressure or timelines or, or, or limitations or anything like it doesn't really show off what you can do as a photographer. It just shows that you know how to press the button and what settings to use and that you know how to edit a picture. And that kind of comes back to what we're talking about here in, in my opinion it's really easy to kind of let our ego and again, I was there. So I I'm speaking from experience. I'm not criticizing to let our egos get ahead of us in the sense of like, Oh yeah, I know this stuff. Like, I'm going to just start.

Bryan Caporicci (00:20:40):

It's like, you need to walk before you run. You need to crawl before you walk. You know what I'm saying? Like, you need to kind of take it bit by bit. And I think to try and get into like, you know, the, and even I hear these conversations now where photographers who are so early in their career are talking about ideal client and that's not the kind of luxury wedding I want to have and this and that. And it's just like, guys, like you can get, get a handful of seasons under your belt, just like shooting weddings first. Like you need to understand because not only there's a couple of paths that I see here. Number one, like we talked about, you have to learn the technical, like you need to, you need to be, you need to be able to understand your camera, the technical, the settings exposure.

Bryan Caporicci (00:21:22):

You need to get that stuff like flawlessly off the back of your hand with that. It needs to be second nature. That's the first part. As soon as you get over that, you're in a good place, right next, add the pressure to it. Right? So now, now do that in the pressure cooker. So that's the next thing. And then once you can get over that, so you can show up to a wedding and you can technically get perfection. That's that is, that is like the next step. Now you're into the milestone, you're into this next stage of your, of your growth as an artist where now you need to stop looking at things as technical problems and start looking at things that have meaning. So how do you look at, you talked about moment. How do you look for a moment? How do you find nuance?

Bryan Caporicci (00:22:03):

How do you piece together details? How do you compose in a way that has the impact? There's all these things. And those are, those are so far away from the technical capabilities that we have as photographers. That's where you become a good wedding photographer. When you can look at things and go beyond the technical. So that would be like the path that I would recommend a photographer going through. And that's why I'm not a fan of the style of shoot concept, because I don't think that it teaches any of those things. It just teaches that you know how to press the button and get the right settings. But, and yes, we need to know that stuff, but that shouldn't be what you're presenting is your ability as a photographer because that's not reproducible on a wedding day. So that would be kind of the path that I would recommend is like, you know, fig number one, make sure that you get technically confident number two, make sure that you can perform in that technically confident way.

Bryan Caporicci (00:22:56):

Under the pressure of a wedding day. And then number three, forget about all of that stuff. As soon as it becomes second nature and it becomes habitual, then you need to just trust your mind and your body and like your, your, your muscle memory to do those things. And then now you need to be focusing on the things that actually make an impact in the work that we do, which is nuance and moment and storytelling and, and cohesion and consistency and all those kinds of things. And then once you figure that out though, once you get beyond that, then it's all about, okay, great. So now you can tell a story. You can capture a moment. You can see these things you can predict when like the, when the laugh is going to be the best you can predict when this moment's going to happen, you can react.

Bryan Caporicci (00:23:36):

You can see then now you need to take the camera and everything away from it and make sure that you can integrate yourself on a wedding day in a way that is relatable, that you can connect with people that you can create an environment that elicits real emotion. You can make people feel at ease. You can make interactions to orchestrate moments sometimes, or you can make interactions where you actually are invisible in the moment. So moments can happen without your interest. So there's, that's like the next step of growth. I'm not sure what would come next, but like, those are like the few main steps that I would say it's a, it's a journey, right? Like it's a journey. It's a, it's a, it's a stepping, stepping ladder that you need to walk up. And so many photographers try and jump to that last rung. And it's like, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta do the work. You gotta put the time in. You gotta do the work.

Raymond Hatfield (00:24:25):

So I, I want to say to the whole stylized shoot type deal right there, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm torn on this because in the same sense, like this is not something that I would do. I would never find myself especially paying for a stylized shoot. I could see myself helping out other vendors doing some sort of stylized shoot, obviously with them, but we're talking about the sense of like, it's a new photographer and they're looking to gain experience, build a portfolio by doing this. And two things that I hear most from new photographers is that a, they don't have enough time to practice photography and B they don't have anybody to practice with. So when it comes to these stylized shoots, like I see where that comes from. I see the desire to go to these things, but you're right. They're missing like such this big step of, it's not just the technicals, it's being able to replicate this under pressure in a real world environment. So for those who, you know, are worried about time for those who are worried about not having the people to photograph, if, if doing, you know, stylized shoots, isn't the way to go. Is there anything else that you could recommend maybe to, to build practice and possibly grow the portfolio as well?

Bryan Caporicci (00:25:42):

Yeah, for sure. I think, I think this all this all sits in this foundation of slowing down. I think if, and, and, and again, like, I believe me, I've been there, so I understand, so I'm not criticizing, but I'm more trying to encourage through experience of this idea that like, you know, we all want to pick up the camera, we figure out this technical thing, and then we want to, again, we want to start running, but it's like success in this industry and growth and longevity and sustainability are not going to come overnight. Like, you know, every overnight success is overnight success, 10 years in the making like that. It's never an overnight success. And so the poll to want those quick results is so like we can feel it it's there, but try to pause that feeling and, and slow yourself down and say, it's okay that it takes time to build these things up.

Bryan Caporicci (00:26:39):

It's okay that you don't get this right away. It's okay that you can't pay $300, get a perfect portfolio. And then book these luxury brides the next day. Like that's not going to happen. That's not a sustainable way to build a business. So my advice would be to get in and, and almost follow the similar path to what I just talked about with myself, where get in and figure out the technical. Like you don't necessarily need to have a bride in front of your camera or a groom in front of your camera to figure out the technical, I mean, go out there and, and just shoot, shoot, whatever you can around you shoot, do self portraits, go out and photograph nature. Like do whatever you can just to, like, you need to be the camera needs to be an extension of, of your eyes, of your mind, of your vision.

Bryan Caporicci (00:27:22):

Your hand almost needs to not even like, it needs to be again, like muscle memory. So whatever you can do just to like put in the hours, put in the time, that's fine. Beyond that, now you, if you want to start understanding the nuances of applying those skills and applying that muscle memory to people, find people to photograph them, like it that's, that would be, I don't think we need to have this like luxury boho bride with this beautiful barn wedding and blah, blah, blah, in order for us to practice that, because that's not, when you want to practice, you want to make mistakes when you're photographing your kids, or when you're photographing like the neighbor's kids or when you're out, you know, w whatever you're doing to practice photographing people, that's when you want to make mistakes, not when you're paying $500 to be at this perfectly styled shoot.

Bryan Caporicci (00:28:07):

So do that. And then, and then even once you've gotten that, now you need to start second shooting. I am such an advocate for like the concept of interning. I think it's so important and it's so underutilized in our industry. It's almost utilized in a way that like, Hey, I want a second shoot for you so I can build a portfolio. No, the whole point of second shooting is not to build a portfolio. If you can. Great. If you can build a relationship with a photographer and do that wonderful. But the point of it is to learn the ropes, to understand what it's like to, to put in your hours to put in your hours, who is it that writes about the 10,000 hour rule in order to, in order to get good at something you've got to put it in 10,000 hours.

Bryan Caporicci (00:28:45):

You know, that's, we, that's what we had to do as photographers. If you want to photograph weddings, get out there and photograph weddings, but do it in learn and be humble about it and be hungry for it and be willing to make mistakes and be willing to carry someone else's bags, because you know that they did that 10 years ago. I did that 10 years ago, 15 years ago, like, so you have to put in the time and I think that's the best way to do it. Are you going to be able to shoot luxury weddings next year? If you go that path? Absolutely not. Absolutely not, but you're going to learn, you're going to get in there and you're going to practice. You're going to know what it's like here and be able to talk with another photographer. You're going to, you're going to see what you like. You're going to see what you don't like. You're going to have experienced practicing with your camera. You're gonna have experience engaging with a couple, engaging with family members, understanding the nuances of a wedding day, and you'll be able to go from there. It's a slower path, but it's a, it's a path that gives you success in the longterm. I know I'm

Raymond Hatfield (00:29:42):

A photographer. Sam Hurd uses just like posing it's like sketch sketching dolls, you know, those wooden dolls that you use to practice sketching with, to practice posing and technicals at home, which I think is a, it's a great tip. And I love to share with everybody whenever I got the chance, but you know what you said there about being an overnight success is really an overnight success. 10 years in the making really struck a chord with me because I know it, you know, if there's one thing that 2020, this past year I had taught us it's that many people realized how important it is to have some sort of side income. And I saw so many people say, you know, I have this camera, I want to use it to capture beautiful photos and bring in some additional income, but you can't start a business in a pandemic.

Raymond Hatfield (00:30:29):

Right. There's that big, but which is really unfortunate because as you know, there are just so many things that you can do in a photography business that do not require you to shoot. Now, as I said earlier, you've been at the forefront of helping photographers, make it through this pandemic better as a business than they were before. So can you share what are some of the things that photographers can be doing today to build a stronger business and prepare themselves so that, you know, when we get back to a hundred percent, they can go at it. Yeah, I think

Bryan Caporicci (00:31:01):

Cause there's a lot of things. I think when, when you think about the skill set that, that you as a photographer have you know, those skills are so transferable to other spaces. So, you know, early days of, of the pandemic, that was something cause, cause our audience at Sproat is largely professional wedding and portrait photographers and obviously weddings and portraits weren't happening because we couldn't be, be doing these things. So, you know, everyone around us was basically, sorry, you'll have to excuse my kids, yelling in the background. That's like the endemic pandemic lifestyle of a dad here. So you know, early days, you know, we're trying to figure out how, how our customers, how our industry, our community can still make a living because that's what they depend on is making a living from photography. So you think about the skillset that you have as a photographer and you know, well, you understand, you know, composition, you understand direction, you understand lighting you know, the tech side of photography, you know, what, what kind of compression or perspective different lenses give how the settings interact with each other?

Bryan Caporicci (00:32:02):

Like, you know, we understand those things intuitively but you also understand probably social media better than the average person. You know, if you were to put the average restaurant owner next to the average photographer, I would argue that the average photographer probably knows a lot more about the visual aesthetic of Instagram than that restaurant owner might. So there's things like that. Like we, as photographers, you as a photographer, know a lot more about video than the average hotel owner or the average you know, local business, there's just, there's so many things like even website building, like most photographers are whizzes at Squarespace. They can get in there and figure that stuff out. Like, like it's nobody's business to the average, you know, the average garden shop or nursery, they don't know the first thing about building websites. Like that's not what they do.

Bryan Caporicci (00:32:45):

They don't live in that space. So when I say all that, I basically just say, what are the different skill sets that you have as far as a photographer that actually aren't photography. And really when you think about it, this there's a lot, like there's a lot that, that, you know, that like doesn't involve you having a camera in your hand and a client in front of the camera, even to that extent. I mean, if you can, if you're a wedding photographer or if you've photographed weddings what else can you photograph? Think about that for a minute, because you know, you're used to photographing, you know, shoes on the wedding day and the dress and jewelry and macro shots and finding nice lighting for the bouquet and all those things. Well, what other businesses right now could use those kinds of services? Like, you know, could you offer your photography services to a restaurant and say, Hey, so you've had to pivot to order it, to having online ordering for all of your food and all of your menu items and your cell phone stamps.

Bryan Caporicci (00:33:35):

Aren't really selling your stuff that well. So how would I help you? Like, is there a way that I can help you or how about the same thing for a nursery or for like anyone? Right. So I kind of w we went through like, you know, dozens and dozens of examples, but that's just the idea. I don't know if that's the direction you wanted me to go or even, but like, that's just the idea of like, how can you bring the skill set that you inherently have because of your role as a photographer? How can you have that, you know, sort of like blow the sides of the box that we've defined for ourselves, which, you know, puts us in this little thing of, like, I have camera in hand, I have clients in front of camera. That's how I make money. How can we now think outside of that box and look for other ways that we can be making a living with the skillset that we have and almost in a way drop the label photographer.

Raymond Hatfield (00:34:25):

Hmm, interesting. So this still gives us away. I can see not only to still continue photography with, with being able to help somebody else, but also kind of grow our place and our stance in the community that we have here locally. You're going to have to reach out to business owners to get approved for something like this. Okay.

Bryan Caporicci (00:34:46):

The thing that was interesting about all that to Raymond is like in that space where it, when, when I was teaching a lot of that stuff, early days, we made a whole course for, we have a whole website dedicated just to it it's called first aid for photographers. We did all this stuff. And what I thought was so interesting is that there was so many photographers who were now building relationships with local folks that they otherwise would never have had the chance to meet, to build relationships with, to network with. And now that they've kind of, you know, like when you, when you go to war with somebody, you know, when you, when you're, when you're in the front line at war with somebody, like when you're in the trenches, like the relationship and the bond that you have beyond that will last a lifetime.

Bryan Caporicci (00:35:28):

And I don't mean to be so dramatic to say that like, that's equivalent to what we went through with the pandemic, but like when you're there and you're helping people and you're sharing in the challenges and you're, and you're just doing everything you can to like to, to, to help your fellow business out, to help your fellow entrepreneurs out and to build these relationships. And when you can be there as that guide for people, they will never forget that. And I don't say that to be like, well, help people so that they can pay you when, depending on what's done. I don't mean that, but I mean like genuinely that's, that's like networking one Oh one, like how do you build relationships with people right now is a perfect time for us to be doing those kinds of things, where we can add value and to, and to other businesses and other people's lives. We can use our skillset for, for the greater good and all the while there's there's revenue opportunity, there's networking opportunity. There's new relationships opportunity. So, you know, it makes it's a win-win win for everybody really.

Raymond Hatfield (00:36:25):

I see. And while I love that idea, and part of me feels like that is maybe just a bit too advance for those who might be listening to this right now is that's. That seems like something that's going to be, perhaps for somebody who's a little bit more established, maybe establish some sort of systems in place. Maybe they have a bit of a I don't want to say Rolodex because nobody uses a Rolodex anymore, but like a bit of a network of people locally that maybe they could reach out to. What about those who putting ourselves in the shoes of somebody who maybe they lost their job, or they were laid off during the pandemic and they thought, okay. The is the way that I have to make money right now. What are some of those initial things? Like, what are, what would you say are the two or the three most important pillars in a business that somebody could be working on now to build before even starting shooting?

Bryan Caporicci (00:37:19):

Mm, okay. I see. So I'll T I'll attack this from a couple angles. The first one is, let's say that you're kind of pretty fresh to photography, right? Like you're pretty, you're pretty new in it. I would say again, I would, I would encourage the idea that, like, you, you've still got to go to school, like you've still got to learn the things, right. You've still got to figure out the things. Again, it's the idea that like, just because you picked up a camera and took some nice pictures of a flower doesn't mean that you should be booking couples to shoot their wedding, right. So this is one of those things where it's like, you know, it might now might be a perfect time to just like go to school and figure that. I mean, like, literally not literally go to school, but like figure these things out, become a student to become, become someone that becomes hungry and is seeking the education to, to better the craft that they're looking to get into.

Bryan Caporicci (00:38:10):

So, you know, go, go through the tutorials, listen to the podcasts, watch the YouTube videos practice in your home, like do what you can to just refine that skill of photography. Now, let's say that you've kind of gotten past that already, or maybe once you do get past that the next would be, and this is like very much my own, my own path is like learn the business side, like dive in and, and, and figure out, understand pricing, marketing, and selling and, and the way that we as people buy and the psychology of it, and just, you know, the way that business works, like understand accounting and how that stuff is going to work, because you're going to need to know that stuff. I've talked to so many photographers that just built their business, not on a solid foundation, and they kick themselves every single time.

Bryan Caporicci (00:38:55):

So if you can avoid that now is a good time to, again, like go to school, like, quote unquote, if you're listening, go to school and learn those business things and practice them and, and, and ask questions and become curious about those kinds of topics. So, so those would be two things as just like, adapt this like hungry mindset, this curious, this intrigued mindset of learning and growing in listening both as a creative and as an entrepreneur. And then the other angle that I want to just to take this on is I don't think that it's too early for anyone to explore these, these ways of helping other folks know, even if you did, even if you just kind of been dabbling with your camera and you know, you've got this cool fancy camera, and you can take some, you know, decent pictures of your kids or whatever it is.

Bryan Caporicci (00:39:48):

It's like, there's no reason you couldn't reach out. Like the, the, the teachings, Raymond, that I was giving photographers back early days of the pandemic. It had nothing to do with the fact that like, they may already know this person. Like, I, I wasn't like, okay, go through your, your, your past client list and do this for only past clients. It's like, no, I want you to like this, what I taught them, as I said, hop in your car virtually, like, don't go in your car, but like, in your mind, close your eyes, go and get in your car and start driving around your town. And as you're driving around your town, look left, look right. Don't look down. Cause I don't know what that would do, but like, but like look left and right, okay. Look left and right. And like, how can you help?

Bryan Caporicci (00:40:26):

Whatever you see around you. And I gave examples of like drive through your downtown. What kinds of businesses are there? Oh, there was like a yoga studio. There's a, this there's a small oil shop. There's a, this, how can you help those people reach out to them? You 95% of the, of the ideas that we brainstormed early days had nothing to do with anyone that these people already knew it. These were all new relationships. So even if you don't have that, like, you know, Rolodex that you were talking about, I still don't think it's a bad idea. If you, if you can take a decent picture, why couldn't you reach out to the local restaurant and say, Hey, I'd love to come photograph your chefs. I'd love to get you some photographs of your chefs because that like disgusting cell phone picture that you have on your website, that they were like standing up against this wall.

Bryan Caporicci (00:41:13):

And they look like a deer in the headlights. That's not doing you any justice to like making your visual presence look really beautiful to potential customers right now. Why don't I come out there and I'll photograph them for you. I'm like, you don't have to have, they don't have to have any idea who you are in order for you to offer something like that. What restaurant owner is going to be like, Oh, you know what? I actually liked those crappy pictures that I have. Like, they're going to be like, you want to come photograph them. Now you get a new relationship, you get experience. And if, as long as you're better than them, you've got nothing to lose. You know what I'm saying? So, so that would be, I, I, I do think that it's a tactic that can still work. Even if you are a very, very early on in your growth trajectory. As a photographer,

Raymond Hatfield (00:41:55):

A few years ago, I read a book. And of course now for the life of me, I can't remember what it was, but it was an investing book. And the sentiment was that the future is cheap if you pay for it now. Right. And I think that that really that point is being driven home here with like, wow, it would be great if you know, you, you did lose your job and you were able to transition flawlessly into a full-time career as a photographer. But unfortunately that happening is not going to happen. There's just so many variables. There's just, you need to have built something, you know? And you talked about that foundation earlier about those photographers who were wishing that they built a better foundation. W would you mind share any real life examples as far as maybe what that, what that piece of the foundation was that they wish was better? Yeah.

Bryan Caporicci (00:42:48):

Yeah. I mean, it's all about, in my opinion, it's all about investing. Like, I think about what I did early days to build the business that I had versus what I saw other photographers doing. And I think the big difference is like I invested, I don't mean money. I mean, you could invest money as well, but I invested time. Like, I, I was scrappy early days of my career as a photographer. I was scrappy and I hustled, I built relationships. I was out there meeting people. I was at every business after five, I was in BNI at the time. I did BNI for like seven years. And yeah, it was a lot of time, like every Thursday morning for two hours. So a huge time investment, but like the relationships that I built there and the depth that I went into in the, in the, in the referrals that I got through that were so valuable now, I didn't get them after my first year.

Bryan Caporicci (00:43:32):

That's, that's the mistake that so many, so many of us make is like, we expect, okay, good. I did that meeting. So where's my referrals from it. Or I did that. I met with this one florist, right? I met with this one vendor. I'm just going to start raking in the referrals. It's like, no, it's not going to happen that way. So I say investing, because truly it's something that you have to just keep doing and doing and doing. It's almost like this idea. And I've talked about this on club hosts, a ton. I've written about it too. It's this theory called the paradox of the growing heap. So it's, it's in this book and I'll give full credit Gretchen Rubin better than before. Fantastic book. If anyone hasn't read it, I highly recommended. But so this, this theory called the paradox of the growing heap.

Bryan Caporicci (00:44:12):

It goes like this. It says if I were to give you a coin, one coin, $1 today, would you say that you're rich? The answer is no one coin does not make you rich. I want to give you another coin. Would you say that you're rich? Well, the answer is no, I already give you another coin. Would you say that you're rich? The answer is no, but if I were to give you coin after coin, after coin day-in day-out and keep giving you coins. At some point, if I asked you the question, you will say that you're rich, but it wasn't one coin that made the difference. It wasn't one coin that tipped the scales and all of a sudden made you rich. But instead it was the sum of coin after coin, after coin, after coin. But eventually it did make you rich. And the interesting thing about that is that although one coin in and of itself is inconsequential. Doesn't make the difference. It is the addition of one coin after one coin after one coin, that does make the difference. And so that's the idea where it's like, you can't just get a gym membership, workout once and expect to be in good shape. You can't work out for a month. Trust me. I've tried to be in good shape. I've tried. I believe me. I've tried. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:45:21):

It's like, I got the gym membership. Why am I not

Bryan Caporicci (00:45:22):

In shape? Let's say, well, you haven't gone to the gym yet. Oh, right. There's that thing. But that's, that's the idea here, right? It's like, it's, it's about investing. I think that's the best foundation that you can build is just to, like, you're going to have to put in the time it's not going to come easy. It's not going to come quick and it's not going to come without effort without sacrifice. And I don't say that to, to be like a downer about this. You know, I'm not meaning to be like the grumpy typographer. That's like, you got to put it in your dues, but instead it's like, no, like entrepreneurship is hard work. Like it is hard work. It's so worth it. I can tell you that it is so worth. It. It is so beautiful to be able to design the life and the career and the path that you follow.

Bryan Caporicci (00:46:03):

And I, again, I can tell you firsthand that like the, the life that you can live and the career and the path, you can follow being a photographer. If that's the path that you want to follow is so rewarding. Like, it's just so wonderful. And I, I, you tell us all the time, but like, my wife has been a stay at home mom with our three kids for eight years because the money I made with my camera, my wife and I paid off our home, our mortgage because of the money I made with my camera, my wife and I own our vehicles. We can vacation when we want, we can buy the things that we want. I can get the latest computer or iPhone, whatever the heck I want to buy because of the money I made with my camera, all those things because of the money I made with my camera. So like the rewards of being an entrepreneur are beautiful, but it takes work to get there. And the early days are always the hardest days. So that's just like, if you can go in, okay, with that, like, you're better off than 95% of the photographers out there because so many of us want those quick wins and we don't want to put in the work. You know, I say, I say, everyone wants success. No one wants to put in the work that success requires.

Raymond Hatfield (00:47:11):

Sure. Ugh. That is a, such a, such a strong sentiment there. I have, I feel like I have so many things that I want to, that I want to bring up and talk about when it comes to that, because I mean, you're right in the sense that, like, it, that's all that photography really is, you know, I mean, you can go out and you can go to a park and you can take a nice photo, but you're not going to do that like day one. Right. And if you do like it's on auto mode, and then did you really create that photo? Or did the camera create that photo? You know? So if you get to the point to where you can take a great photo that took a long time, you had to invest in yourself to learn how to do that. And then why should it be any different with the business side of things?

Raymond Hatfield (00:47:56):

If you go out and you book like one Boston bride, like that's cool, that's awesome. But I want to see where you're going to be a year from now. And how are you going to do that? Except for, as you were saying, you know, continue to invest in yourself and build those relationships. That is, that was a masterclass, right. There is what that was like, if somebody is listening to that and if they took away one thing from this episode, I hope, I hope that it's that in the importance of, of everything that you just said there. So, so thank you so much for, for sharing your experience in that, of course I wanted to ask because oftentimes oftentimes photographers, you know, they listen to us as, as we're just talking. Sometimes we talk about gear and we talk about all these nice new things. And oftentimes new photographers just don't have the gear or the resources that most professional photographers do. So can you tell me maybe early on in your career, maybe a time where you really just had to make, do with what you had to, to, to get a job done, even though it wasn't maybe the best, a possible way to do it, you still, you still made it work

Bryan Caporicci (00:49:05):

A hundred percent. So I, I will say perfectly confidently that whatever gear you have right now to, to, to the listener, whatever gear you have is all that you need right now. And, and I say that with such belief, because it's so easy to be chasing the gear and, and, and look, I, I, I get it. I feel it too. And, and quite honestly, I love buying gear. I really do, but, and, and I say this with a huge, but huge caveat I'm able to, because I can't afford it because photography it has is, and has been my career and my, and my livelihood. So, and I've achieved the financial success in my photography business to be able to say, if I want to get that camera, I'm going to get it just because I want to play around. Now as a side note, my passion and obsession is filmed now.

Bryan Caporicci (00:50:07):

So the cameras are much more affordable to get now, as opposed to buying like the latest Sony or Canada Nikon or whatever. But I digress you know, whatever it is that you have, like cameras today, even the most like simple, the most basic of cameras are so, so more advanced than anything we had even top of the line five years ago. Like the most like the $600 camera today is better than the $6,000 camera five years ago. Yeah. And if photographers were successful with like top of the line five years ago, well, sure. You can be successful with bottom line today. So I guess I say that to say, like, don't chase the gear, don't look for more gear, learn whatever you have. It doesn't matter what you have because the camera only does what you tell it to do. And so the camera itself is not going to make a difference in the photographs that you make the most important part.

Bryan Caporicci (00:51:06):

And I forget who it was. It may have been canceled that said this, but the most important part of the camera is the six inches behind it. Yeah, yeah. Right. You, and so don't worry about whatever you have. If you have a kit lens, perfect. If you have a rebel, awesome. If you have whatever, whatever you have is perfect. If you don't have a flash, no problem, like learn with what you have. And it will probably bring you a few years of, of growth as a creative. Once you start to feel the actual limitation of that gear when you're like, no, no, no, I, I literally couldn't get this without, without just next lens or whatever it is. That's when you start to consider, but I'm, I'm almost willing to bet that like most of us are not there even myself. Like, I'm I, right now I shoot food.

Bryan Caporicci (00:51:56):

Quick side note, I shoot Fuji. I've got the fifty-six F1 two and I've got the 50 F two weather seal. And I have both for a reason. Cause I use them for different things. Now the 50 F1 came out and it's like, Oh, I'm thinking, Oh, heck yeah. 50. And I'm all about the 50 FYI. I'm all about the F1 I'm is weather sealed? Beautiful. Okay. Both. Gotcha. All right. The, the, the, the bocce balls are like point 0.000, zero one millimeters bigger. So it looks a little bit more sexy if you do a direct side-by-side studio comparison, which we never do by the way. So I'm trying to justify whether I just sell both those lenses and get the one and yeah. I mean, like that's easy to justify. Well, you know, probably would save a little bit of money and probably, and then we go through these stories.

Bryan Caporicci (00:52:38):

I don't need it. I don't need it. Well, I do it because I want it maybe, but I'll only do it because I can afford it. Not because, you know, I'm not going to go and get a loan for it. I'm not going to go. And like, you know, not pay myself this year because as I need to make that move. And I, and I do see that I see so many photographers that are like, they don't pay themselves because they just keep spending any money on gear. And it's like, man, if you're, if you're, if you look at your chart of accounts at the end of the year, and if you've spent more on care than you've paid yourself, there's something wrong. I guess all that, just to say, like, don't worry about the gear man. Like just do whatever you can shoot with whatever you have. If you have an iPhone use that, learn on that. You'll you'll, you can probably spend a few years mastering the art of photography on just your iPhone. Now I'm not saying you're going to go shoot a wedding with it, but it's like, we're talking about that, that, that growth as an artist, as a creative, and then as an entrepreneur, you can get pretty darn far with like the simplest gear. So don't, don't chase gear.

Raymond Hatfield (00:53:32):

I was, I was in the same boat as you with the with the 56, 1.2. And then I realized that just like the size of it, I didn't want to use it like around the house and just photograph my kids. Cause it was just kind of big and cumbersome. And then I, I played this game with myself. It was like, I could get the two, but is it going to be as good? You know, how much light am I going to be losing? But at the end of the day, I mean, none of that stuff matters. It's like, it's like, it was just like two thirds of a stop that you're, that you're losing. It's not much at all. And then it's much smaller. And the fact that now I can, I just shoot more with that 50 millimeter, F two. And even though on paper, it's a technically inferior lens.

Raymond Hatfield (00:54:12):

It's nowhere near as good as that. 50, 61.2. It enables me to shoot more, which ultimately is what we want as photographers. Right? A hundred percent, as long as you got what you need to, to shoot, that's all that you want. Now I want to get back to, to this whole film thing that you're doing right now, because as you said, you know, you've been shooting for 15 years. You've been doing this now that you picked up this film camera, I want to know like, what is, is there a goal to it? Is it strictly a creativity thing? And if it is, what are you trying to express? Does any of this make sense? Because yeah, it's again on paper. There's no reason.

Bryan Caporicci (00:54:47):

Sure. No, a hundred percent. Yeah. A hundred percent. I mean, it's, this is the funny part is like my, my trajectory or the path has, has, if you follow all of it so far, I mean, I got into it because I wanted to be a business person. Not because I wanted to be a photographer. Right. Like he felt all of it. It's literally like backwards from what you would typically do. So I, at the time when I first discovered film, which is about two years ago I had never shot film before. Never like, I mean maybe when I was a kid I'd grabbed my parents' point of view, but it was never like shooting film, intentional. I've never shot with film. So it's like yet for, for 30, at the time, for 13 years, every single time I had shot, every time I had picked up my camera outside of like just documenting my kids, I'm being paid to do it.

Bryan Caporicci (00:55:30):

I'm being paid to be a photographer and I'm always shooting for other people. Now I built my business to a point where I got to shoot what I wanted to shoot and how I wanted to shoot and people paid me handsomely for it. So that's great. And and I'm very grateful and thankful for that, but I never had this opportunity to like explore photography for me. Never, never, I've always been a full-time professional photographer. The camera is what puts food on the table. And so when I first got like, just this like little intrigue of film, I was like, Oh, this is different. This is like, and then just like having, having a camera and like being intentional by choosing a film stock and then physically loading it into a camera and just this whole like mechanical process with, you know, winding the film and doing all these.

Bryan Caporicci (00:56:23):

I develop all my film too. I do dark room printing myself too. So doing all these things dove right in, Oh, I mean, dove right in. But like being involved in a very tactile way gives me a different way to see, learn express through photography that I'd never have. I'd never had before. I had never explored that before. And then even going beyond that, like the story that the permanence, the story of shooting on film, you know, this idea that like when, when you press the shutter, this piece of emotion changes forever. Like it, it forever is impact by the light that exists in this very S you know, split-second of moments one, 503rd, a second. This piece of film changes physically, physically changes never to be undone. And then, and then you can make something real out of that all the way up to like predicting a dark room and you see this thing appear in front of you.

Bryan Caporicci (00:57:23):

And you're like, I made this like free of technology, like free of computers and bits and bytes and zeros and ones. Like, I made this with light with a piece of light and this will never, ever be undone. Like that is just a beautiful way of like, seeing what we do. And so I'm not doing it for clients, but I mean, I've done it. I've actually had quite a number of clients that have like, seen my own exploration of it on the personal side. And they're like, yeah, we know we want you to shoot film for us. Which is like, cool. Cause it's now seeing a side, a aside spill into like my professional work. But I'm just doing it for fun and because I really enjoy it. And it gives so many other ways to explore. I mean, like I've, you can buy cameras for like a couple hundred dollars, like really good film cameras for a couple of hundred dollars. And they're, they're a freaking blast to play with. So like, it's great. It fulfills a different side of me that I otherwise just didn't have digitally.

Raymond Hatfield (00:58:24):

It's it's interesting hearing you say that because I hear new photographers speaking about their brand new entry-level that like digital cameras in that same way, like, Oh, it's this new creative passion because oftentimes, you know, when you get that camera, you're not coming from a world of creativity, which you have. So I love, I love hearing that passion come back into you and that excitement that is that is so much fun.

Bryan Caporicci (00:58:47):

That's it though, right? Raymond is like it reignited this fire that I have, because I've been a full-time professional photographer for 15 years. It reignited this fire that like admittedly after 15 years, like not that I got tired of photography, it's not that I felt uninspired because I love what I do. And I love to photograph for my clients, but like for my own, my own creative pursuit, it reignited that amateur mindset again in me. And I haven't had that in 15 years. So it was just, it's been such a joy to, to continue to explore that.

Raymond Hatfield (00:59:23):

Very cool. Well Bryan, Oh, side note, when I was doing research for this episode, I realized that you're the only Bryan who's ever been on the beginner photography podcast. So on top of the, like this huge list of accolades that you have for yourself now, you can add that to it as well. But before I let you go can you let those listening right now know where they can find you? Because as you said, photographer, you also host a podcast 450 episodes. Congratulations on that as well as running sprout studio. So can you just let people know where they can learn more about you and share everything?

Bryan Caporicci (00:59:57):

Yeah, for sure. Thank you, Raymond. A couple of places, I guess, if you want to learn more about sprout then you can go to GetSproutStudio.com or just Google sprout studio. You'll find us. If you want to dive more into the business education that we have, if you go to that same website, we have a community button at the top of the page, you can dive into podcasts. We have courses, we have pricing calculators. We have hundreds of articles on anything you can think of to do with the business of photography. So you can hop in there. If you like podcasts which you do, you're listening to a podcast right now. Then you can just find us, it's called the business of photography. You can find us pretty much wherever you listen to podcasts. That's I guess mostly if you wanna connect on clubhouse, if you're on clubhouse, that's like the coolest and latest obsession. So come find me over there. But yeah, that's, that's pretty much me.