Vanessa Joy is an award-winning wedding photographer with more than 20 years in business. In 2020 she was named one of Canons Explorers of Light. An exclusive position reserved for photographers who have dedicated their lives to the craft. Today she talks about how she almost chose a different career path and what it was that brought her back to photography.

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Episode Timeline:

• Vanessa describes her early interest in photography, and when she knew that photography was going to play a big role in her life.

• Vanessa shares personal shots from her early days in photography.

• What influenced your preference for portraits in photography?

• About Vanessa's plans to move to Texas.

• Vanessa was announced as one of Canon's Explorers of Light.

• Is there anything Vanessa thinks new photographers should know?

Premium Members Also Learn:

• The marketing efforts that have worked for Vanessa in New York over the past 20 years

• What marketing efforts Vanessa is using now to build authority when she moves to Texas

Key Takeaways: 

• The passion had always been there for photography, the realization that it would be a full-time career much later.

• Highlighting the benefits of her photography career, Vanessa talks about the love for it and the freedom to plan her schedule.

• Vanessa describes the drive behind her preference for portraits. In a lot of ways, I think I enjoyed photographing people in how I felt, so photographing people is a little bit of photographing them but a lot of expressing who I am.

• Combining two styles of portrait photography, one where every aspect of the picture is controlled with one where things are allowed to be more natural is possible, and do not have to be mutually exclusive.

• When you first start in photography it is understandably necessary to try many styles and then hone in on a particular one, but as you get better in that aspect, you get bored and have enough control of your craft to try other things and expand your photography interests while maintaining your brand.

• Discussing Vanessa's move to Texas, she noted some key differences regarding the technique in her photography.

• Asides from her technical know-how with the camera, another point Vanessa attributes her Explorers of Light announcement to, was her ability to find simple uses for the camera for the average person, knowing that the company would need that kind of market to make sales on a large scale.

• To new photographers: Gear doesn't matter, and should not stop you from being a great photographer, and as gear gets more expensive it's good if there's a particular reason. Just keep going at it, you have to love photography for the work itself because that's the thing that's your daily life, not the results.

Resources:

• Austin Texas Wedding Photographer Vanessa Joy’s Website

• Vanessa Joys Website for photographers

• Vanessa Joy on Youtube

• Vanessa Joy on Instagram

• Join The Beginner Photography Podcast Facebook Community

Standout Quotes: 

"People are endless, they're infinite, they can convey a million different emotions, you can photograph them a million different ways" - [Vanessa]

"Gear doesn't matter, you can be a great photographer even if you can't afford expensive gear" - [Vanessa]

"Just keep going at it, it has to be something that you love the climb for" - [Vanessa]

Did you enjoy this episode? Check out more recent interviews with other great guests!

Full Episode Transcription:

Disclaimer: The transcript was transcribed electronically by Temi.com and may contain errors that do not reflect accurately what the speaker said. Because of this, please do not quote this automated transcript, it is only intended as a reference.

Raymond Hatfield:

So last time you were on, you had told me about your mom and your grandmother's influence on you getting started in photography. Now I didn't have a parent who was a photographer, but I just like, I don't know. I kind of always knew that I wanted to create images. And I don't think that there was specifically one moment where it all came together for me. I want to know. Was it the same for you having that creative influence in your life? Was there one moment that you knew that photography was going to play a big role in your life?

Vanessa Joy:

It was slow because you know, my parents, my grandparents, my mother had a great influence on my photography life. I would say my mom gave me the eye. And then my dad, who was a business owner, he taught me how to work for it. But when I fell in love with photography, which was in high school, in the black and white dark room, developing my own stuff, that's when I fell in love with it, but it didn't ever occur to me that it could be like my real job until way later I went to school for photography. But then I got an education degree. Spanish degree actually have five college degrees, very weird thing. But I became a teacher. I thought I had to have a real job. Every example in my life was someone that was, you know, my mom who was really a stay-at-home mom, but shot weddings sometimes, or my high school photography teacher that shot weddings on the weekends, but was a teacher in a school. So I always just thought, like, I, I fell in love with it. I knew I was going to do it. I just thought I had to do it on the sidelines of my real life. And that became something that I slowly over three years because I got my degree, I started teaching Spanish and then I went to start my business at the exact same time. And I remember, I remember crying when I got the job, actually I was actually crying, like not happy, like upset,

Raymond Hatfield:

Not happy. Oh my gosh, to work so hard for something and then not be happy.

Vanessa Joy:

Yeah. It was ironic because I was on, I was actually at the house. I've never told this story. I was at the house of the guy who was my high school photography teacher that I worked for for about five years, taught me everything. And as I was sitting there and I was talking to him about, you know, starting my own business or I don't remember what it was some kind of serious conversation where it was about me teaching her about, we started my business at the same time. As we're sitting there talking about it, he gets a phone call and it's the head of the foreign language department calling him for his record, the recommendation on my work skills, you know, calling my references. And I hear him start talking about me. Like, yeah, she's amazing. She's been great. And she'll be a great teacher and blah, blah, blah.

Vanessa Joy:

And I just started crying and it was not like, I'm happy hearing him say this. It was like, Oh my God, I have to do this and have my dream. Not really be a total reality. I have to like, go start real life now. And it was so upsetting. But as those first three years of both starting my education career and my photography business, I became so busy. I just could not be a teacher anymore. And so it was just slow. It wasn't one thing after the other, it was no, I had to do this. And then I had to do this. I fell in love with it to begin with, but the realization of it being my life didn't come until way later.

Raymond Hatfield:

So what do you think in that moment when your photography teacher got the call asking, you know, for those references, how is Vanessa going to be as a teacher? What do you think about her? What was going through your mind? Was it just like the door's closing on a possible future? Or why do you think it, it was so strong of an emotion for you?

Vanessa Joy:

Yeah. I mean, it was a strong emotion because I mean, I don't cry like that. I'm not like a weepy person. My husband who had been married to for 11 years has seen me cry all three times and one was while I was like giving birth. Like that's. Yeah. So for me, like it, it just felt like, you know, I was closed in, I think the reality of having to do something that I was kind of about, and I had to be a grownup, I guess, was what I was thinking, because it didn't think that photography was being robbed for me. I still was, I knew I was going to do it on the side, but it was just that heavy reality of, okay. I guess I'm going to be a big girl now and probably my subconscious, just going, Nope. This sucks. You're going to see how much this sucks.

Raymond Hatfield:

So it was innocence that, that, that youth kind of being over rather than, Oh no, I can't be a photographer. Is that it was, it was that urge to be a photographer. You're saying wasn't super strong at that point, it was just kind of the, the youth being at its end.

Vanessa Joy:

I think. So I think it was both at the same time, because I obviously couldn't devote as much time to photography as I wanted to when I had this nine to five or eight to three or whatever, it was something horrible where I had to get away too early. It's just not healthy for the brain to get up that early. I don't think that yeah, it was all good

Raymond Hatfield:

When it comes to the photography side. What do you think it is that makes you not feel that same way? Because arguably when it comes to photography, this can be all consuming. And when you don't have that window of hours that you go in and punch the clock or whatever, you're home all day, you're thinking about this. It can be more of a gel cell, I suppose, than, than most people think. Why do you think of the idea of that wasn't as, or isn't as scary for you?

Vanessa Joy:

Well, because the cliche answer, of course, I love what I do. Yes. Don't love every single part of it, but those charts, I delegate out a lot of the time, but then also it's, you know, I'm my own boss. I probably have a little issue with authority. So I think having, you know, me say what I'm going to do and have the control over what I'm going to do or not do is huge. I think that's very freeing as a photographer and not a lot of photographers realize that they think they have to take every job that comes along. And to an extent that you do, right. You know, when you're trying to get your work out there, do more, eat, put food on your table, but you do reach a point somewhere along the lines where it's like, Hmm, Nope. I don't want to photograph families anymore because I really freaking hate doing it. Like there's no, I don't like these photos. I'm not posting them. And it sounds so snotty of me to say, considering I hire people to do my own family photos, but it's just not something that I really enjoy. I don't ha I don't hate it. Don't say that. And I do it for friends, but that's because I enjoy my friends, but complete strangers, not so much, I love your kids, but

Raymond Hatfield:

Right. Oh my gosh, I feel the same way. Like I will gladly go hang out, you know, with my neighbors, my friends, and like their kids and we'll play. But the second that, like, I have to photograph them in some sort of a capacity. It's just like, this is the worst. I don't enjoy this at all. I will gladly pay somebody who truly enjoys what they do to to do that for me and recommend others to do that as well. So you had said that your high school photography teacher was also a wedding photographer. Did that on weekends. And then did you just say there that your mom did as well? Occasionally shoot weddings.

Vanessa Joy:

She did. Yeah. She shot weddings and portraits. That was her thing. I don't recall her shooting weddings too much with me growing up. I think I was too young. Her last wedding was probably when I was around 10 years old, maybe around that area. And then she just did portraits. The weddings just got to be too much for her and rightfully so. I mean, we complain about having the gear is now. And this was like before you had to lug film and bigger lights and battery packs and everything else.

Raymond Hatfield:

No kidding. Medium format, full format cameras. So so when, when you were, you know, if I look at you today and I look at your images, you know, somebody who were to search for fitness, joy images, their weddings, their engagements, and that's it. Right. And, and yes, in portraits, and then looking at your, you know, your upbringing in photography, your photography teacher was a wedding photographer. Your mom was a wedding photographer. Was it kind of seems that like, Oh, well that's a natural fit, but for a lot of people, it's kind of the opposite. It's like, Oh, I enjoy photographing little everyday things. And then it morphs into how can I make money with this? A wedding photography seems to be a good way. Has your photography ever been of, of, of personal work or has it always just been, I'm going to start with wedding photography and, and go from there.

Vanessa Joy:

It has, it was only personal work when I was learning photography because Lauren knows I should not have been photographing weddings at that point. So in high school and like the first year of it was personal work and they have, you want to say this? No one's ever seen this before. I'm pretty sure it's right here. So

Raymond Hatfield:

Got an exclusive right here. Yeah.

Vanessa Joy:

Yeah. This might shock. This could be a shock factor, but I remained that it's art. It was a shock factor, but my father saw it. And we'll just say that hold on. I gotta look scroll back to myself so you can see it. So I would do my own personal work and it usually was portraits. I did some still life stuff that was okay, but it's always been people like, I always loved emotion coming through people. And for one assignment in college, it was like, you had to imitate someone's work that you saw that you liked. And I did that and I am sorry to say, I have no idea whose work actually imitated at the time that this, they were self portraits of me just conveying like raw emotion. And to this day, if I'm going to do personal work, it's always something like, to that extent, now this is like horribly exposed and all those things, but you get the idea. That's the idea. Absolutely. Vanessa,

Raymond Hatfield:

Very interesting use of of light or I guess not interesting use, but it's like, it's clear that there was a strong use of light there. So you already had,

Vanessa Joy:

We're going to call that accidental use of light because I mean, knowing what I know about flash today, I, I have to think, cause that was on film this, and I guess I did like meter cause I used to like beat her. I remember doing that with my mom, so I must've liked metered that, but like understanding exact direction and light fall off and inverse square law was just not in my brain. Proper exposure I suppose, was in my brain. So yeah.

Raymond Hatfield:

Well that was definitely very a, a, you know, an interesting look. So thank you so much for, for sharing that. And if anybody's listening, they got to check out YouTube to to check out those photos there. But I guess let's go back. I don't think that I finished the the question there, which was kind of about those, those early days as far as personal photography for you. So was that personal photography? It was all self portraits. Cause I know for, you know, for me it was like my dog and you know, like my neighbors or whatever, like kids who I grew up with, like on my street, like those were the things that I was just around. I don't think that I ever took a single self portrait. So I guess do you think that this was influenced by your mother and other creative areas that you were influenced by in your life?

Vanessa Joy:

I don't think so. If I were, you know, other personal work that I did, it was always a people I'd always photograph people. So it was my friends, it was my family. It was probably neighbors at the time. It was always people that I knew. I always liked photographing people. And to this day I did a sort of personal project. I was hired by data color to show off one of their color reader things, which is a really cool little thing where you read the color, the exact like Pantone off of objects. Ironically they did not like the video. I think it was awesome of course naturally. But but it was one of the very first pieces of personal work I did. Yes. I was supposed to use this thing, but in knowing what it did with reading color, I was like, Oh, this is the coolest thing. Like I want to do this. And that that's a video on YouTube. I'll put a, I'll get you link where you can share with people. But even that it was, it was, again, it was portraits. I want to see people I've always been drawn to photographing people and not kids, obviously

Raymond Hatfield:

My kids. Yeah. Why, why people, what is it about people that, that really stands out for you even as, you know, as you said, your earliest influences, it was people, it was people why, well,

Vanessa Joy:

People are endless, they're infinite, you know, they can convey a million different emotions. You can photograph them in a million different ways. And in a lot of ways, I think I enjoyed photographing in people how I felt. So I would I remember this one photo, like I took of my brother and I had this kind of like harsh light on it. It's a horrible photo, by the way. I'm not going to show that one. It was, but it was meant for him to look like he was kind of trapped in, in a jail cell. And I remember wanting to take this photo because it was just a time in my life where I felt trapped and I felt a certain way. So photographing other people, it's a little bit of photographing them, but a lot of expressing who I am.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's interesting. What's that quote, I believe it's Tansel Adams who says that there's two people in every picture, the person behind the camera and then the person viewing the photo. And I think that what you just said there kind of speaks a lot to that. And I would think that, you know, with, with that direction, what you just told me, right there sounds like a straight portrait artist. You know what I mean? Somebody who just wants to go out and just photograph just portraits and, you know, put in a lot of time and work what you do. But I think, you know, one area that you're known most for is your weddings. Do you think that that just happened you know, shooting weddings? Did you not see a future in, in portraits or was there something specifically about weddings that you liked more?

Vanessa Joy:

Well, weddings is what, again, I first knew was a way to make money, a way to actually be a photographer. So I just, as much as people I'm sure say, you know, I'm a leader, I really am very much a follower. So my example in front of me was wedding photography. So I guess what I'm going to do wedding photography. And I just followed that down the path. I would say more now I'm doing portraits ever than before because of the YouTube channel, it's more applicable. There are more people shooting portraits and there are shooting weddings. And even the ones shooting weddings can learn off of portraiture. And it's a lot easier just to get a model, to show up versus getting a model and a tux for a groom and a dress for a ride or two brides or whatever bridesmaids and groomsmen and everything else.

Vanessa Joy:

So I've been doing a lot more portraiture and I have to say, I really enjoy it. And that's one of the things with weddings I've realized I enjoy for the most part two parts of the wedding day, all of the getting ready stuff, the still life I enjoy, you know, all the details, setting up the invitation suite. I like that because it's kind of like my ease into the day. It's a little bit of Zen time. No, one's bothering me. I'm just being cute with my little artsy stuff. And then I love anything where I'm photographing people, which is thankfully most of the day, but yeah, those are, those are the two things I really enjoy about weddings. So I'm happy to be doing more of the photographing people, just in different scenarios and studio work, which is something I really haven't done before.

Raymond Hatfield:

Now for spinning. You know, I would say the majority of your career shooting, weddings, and then now trying to implement more and more portraits into your work. Is there anything that you think, I guess, what specifically would you say, like separates the two for you? Obviously the wedding is like, here's an event, but when it comes to portraits, you know, there's the, there's the Chris Orwig type portraits, which is like, here we are natural light, you know, gimme an expression. Got it. And then there's the Sue Bryce type portraits or, you know, Lindsay Adler, where everything is, is, is controlled. Where do you think that you, where do you think that you land on that scale?

Vanessa Joy:

Oh, smack in the middle. Sometimes I want to control things, you know? Cause for example, we did a YouTube shoot the other day, the same day I, I shot this video for the Datacolor thing. And that video is very like precise. I mean, there's one shot where I literally felt like I was a dentist, like specifically shining the light right into her eyeballs. Like, you know, how they adjust it to be right on your mouth. That's how precise this was. And I loved it. It was great. And then the same day we went outside and she literally danced around in the snow for me and nothing but natural light. And that's fun too, you know, it's, it's all of it. I'm right there in the middle. I love creating both extremes. And even with self portraits, I've done self portraits last year. I did a whole bunch that were like natural light. There's actually, one of them is on my website. I'm like playing with flowers and then I did self portraits the other day. That's going to come out on a new series. I have coming out on the YouTube channel all with a budget gear, but that was inside continuous lights, very light kind of hard light. Interesting. Let's just say it'll be fun when that comes out, but I love all of it. There's not, I don't have a lean, I appreciate all of it from the light and airy to the dark and moody.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh man. That's I think that a lot of listeners are going to kind of love that take on it because so often we're told to like fit into a box, you know, like figure it all out and then just like go deep on your one thing and to see you, you know, saying I love it all and I'm going to do it all is I think going to be really refreshing for, for people to hear. Yeah.

Vanessa Joy:

Can't can't we have emotions too.

Raymond Hatfield:

Absolutely. And you know, I think it, I don't know, maybe tell me if I'm wrong here, but I think that, like that information like really applies towards probably the business side, just because it's so it's so hard for new photographers to make a name for themselves when you just kind of do everything. Cause it right.

Vanessa Joy:

And I will say, I will say because when it comes to branding and it, when it comes to, when you're a beginner photographer, you need to, it's, it's kind of like an arch when you're in the beginning, you're trying everything and your work is all the Frick all over the place. And it's really scary. I just recently stumbled across my old work. That was unpleasant. Let me just say, but then you kind of hone it in. Well, I guess it's like here and then we kind of hone it in and we're like getting it. And we create this brand and this look that we're known for, and that is super important, absolutely necessary. But then in the middle of that, because you've learned to create your brand, you master that, right. You master that look, and then once you've asked that you get bored out of your minds and you want to start doing other things.

Vanessa Joy:

And at that point you have control of your craft more than you did in the beginning to explore other things correctly and not in like a haphazard way. And then of course, whatever you're shooting doesn't mean, that's what you're showing. You know, you can still maintain that brand. And if you look on my Instagram, for example, we specifically, it was funny, my my social media girl who plans all the posts, she's like, so what color are we doing next? We're going to do some pink. So we're going to do some greens or yellows or black and white set, you know? And I kind of just have like sections, you scroll through my Instagram. You can notice, okay, there's the pinks, there's the Browns, there's the blues, there's the whatever. So it still is consistent. It's still a brand. It still looks good together instead of haphazard. But you know, we get to try new things and still keep her brand. It's definitely very tiresome though, trying to make it all work together because you do need to make it work together.

Raymond Hatfield:

You know, I don't think I've ever heard it explained like that in such a cohesive way of kind of that arc of the growth of photography. And I want to say, thank you for that. That was, that was fantastic. You know, I mean, these are things that like, you kind of, you're like, yeah, you know, like that's just kind of where your head goes, but for you to lay it out so clearly, like that is is very helpful. Not only for me, but I'm sure the listeners will as well, especially for, you know, coming from the experience that you have like you've lived that arc right there, you know, and being able to speak to it just makes it a whole lot more powerful, which is what I'm super excited to ask you next, which is that recently I saw you post on Facebook that you are packing everything up after 20 years in New Jersey in New York and you're moving to Texas, which sounds absolutely terrifying to me.

Raymond Hatfield:

And obviously it's terrifying to you, which we're of course, going to talk about the business side here in a moment. But I also saw a video of, I believe it was a video of a videographer. I don't know why that word was so hard for me to find right there who posted a, a stylized shoot that you did as well down in Texas. And I guess so before we talk about the actual move and the transition and you know, how crazy this business side is going to go, was there anything different physically or, or the way that you captured shooting in Texas? So I guess geographically, rather than being in New York in New Jersey.

Vanessa Joy:

Yes, absolutely. So when, you know, we wanted to make them move. I knew there would be a lot of shifts, but photographically would be one in Texas because it is nice, like all the time. There is harsh light, I will say obviously because the heat and sun and everything else, but from what I know, my little bit of experience is most photographers are not into the off-camera flash thing as much a lot of their perceptions are outside and everything. So most of the photographers there, from what I've been told and from what I've seen are not quite into the off-camera flash. So that does two things. One that's going to set me apart. So I'm specifically going to shoot off camera flash shots that are probably not typical of different areas. And that also tells me that that's what couples there are trained to see and to like, right.

Vanessa Joy:

So I did a little bit of both. I shot mostly natural light, even in some places where I think flash would have helped or would have added to it. But I think would have been a little bit of a disconnect and not as cohesive with the style that I've seen in those areas. But then I also made it a point to shoot with off camera light in a few more difficult areas that people probably would not have shot with off camera light because it wasn't totally necessary. But if you did it, it really made the photo.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's really interesting. I hadn't I hadn't even thought about it as far as like from a population standpoint, I guess, as far as what it is that they're looking for. So I guess the question that I have, which is probably just playing devil's advocate is here is why would you change your style based on you know, your, your customers shouldn't they want to come to you for who you are and not being like every other photographer.

Vanessa Joy:

Oh yeah. Well, you know, I wouldn't say it changed my style because I certainly shoot a ton of you know, more bright and vibrant. I wouldn't say I'm a light and airy photographer. I don't think I'd go that far more, but bright and vibrant, but I still did that there. I just chose not to go like too far off the beaten path, but enough where a certain points would like, wow, people like, Oh my gosh, I've seen a million photos shot at that one place, but this one looks different for some reason, you know? So it's a little bit of both. I want to keep my style and showed the style. I know I take, that's going to be appealing to a lot of people give like a sense of comfort, but at the same time, I also want those wild images that like, Whoa, I'm not getting those anywhere else.

Vanessa Joy:

So because what happens in the minds of consumers too, like they're looking through your feeds, so it's not through your website and through all that stuff. And if they only see all of the, you know, wow, off-camera light photos, one, your whole wedding data doesn't look like that. Let's just be honest with you in their head. They're like, Oh, that's that style. So they probably don't know how to do that other style. So if I can show both, then I think that's, that's a key winning feature, but of course I'm saying all of this having only shot one style shoot there. So let's just see how this goes.

Raymond Hatfield:

No, I mean, on paper, it makes total sense, you know, that whole making sure that it's comfortable for the for the consumer to view and to kind of picture themselves in that as other photos that they've seen in Texas and kind of marry those two thoughts together, it makes perfect sense. It makes sense. Earlier last year, right after imaging actually I interviewed a photographer, Chris Duncan, who was talking about, he lives in Texas, Lubbock, Texas. And he was saying that, you know, Texas is very big sky country. And when you look at many other Texas photographers, they include lots of sky. And he's like, the sky is very boring and others there's nothing there. I don't, I don't like it at all. So he said that one thing that he does is that he tries to frame out as much sky as possible, get high kind of shoot down type of thing. Is there anything, I guess for you, that's different about Texas compared to New York and New Jersey, as far as maybe the local scenery or anything like that, that you can see yourself possibly shooting more of or less of compared to what you're doing now?

Vanessa Joy:

Oh yeah. Like I want to see that big sky. Cause here, all I see are like trees and there's some buildings and like, I can't see this guy. I want to see this guy. I love that. I love, I always say there are so few spots in New Jersey and I have sought them out, man, where the sky meets the ground versus like having stuff like it's, you know, ground tree-lined sky, which she is just irritating. So I, I like that. I want, I want to see more of that, but it's, you know, it's going to be a marriage between what's there and what I'm used to and how I typically shoot. I think in general, when I shoot, I always look to get it all. So I'm going to want big sky, but then I'm going to want close up. I tend to lean towards closeup, I think.

Vanessa Joy:

Cause I feel like that shows more emotion versus it being about which gazebo you stood next to that time, you know? So for three hours, right? Right. Exactly. That's not to say, I don't want to shoot that. I do because that's going to be the photo that is a whole spread across the album or printed out large. So I need all those things, but I could see that. And I liked that he finds a way to be a little bit different because you have to it, especially to consumers, you know, they, they aren't photographers. And while I think the population at large is getting a little bit more educated on visual arts and mediums because of all the social media, they still don't see things the way that photographers do. So if I have a light nary picture next to the next light and every photographer, they're going to see no difference whatsoever, but something like he did where, okay, everyone has all these sky pictures with little people in them. They're like little dots and they're with school, but then you've got a totally different angle. That's something they'll see. And that's kind of how I feel about the flesh. You know, things that just set you apart that are different. That'll make you look, but not like make you like back off and think that the photographer can't accomplish the other things too. Sure.

Raymond Hatfield:

Perfect. Perfect. so now let's, let's move on to the, to the business side of things, because as I can imagine, this is not going to be very easy for you. And while photography is kind of photography, it's going to work, you know, in New Jersey, as it is gonna work in Texas business is it's trickier. So what is it that you're doing now to start drumming up inquiries and bookings so that when you arrive, you can hit the ground running.

Speaker 3:

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Raymond Hatfield:

Again, I know that I said it before, but I truly can't believe how easy you broke that down. In terms of, like I said, I was going in with it, like for the kill. I was like, I want numbers. I want you to do this. Like give me this. I want that info. Like what sorts of ads are you doing? And you just broke it down. You're like, no, no, no, no, no. Like we're going to do this easy. We're going to do it the right way. And I think that, you know, following that intuition that you have, which has obviously worked for you for so long is going to just kill it in Texas. So I'm really excited for you to, you know, go down there and see that success is even though right now, I feel like I can hear it and I can see it. There's this nervousness, you know, which of course you're going to have, but with the confidence that you have and with that plan that you just laid out for us, I don't see how it can't not work. So I'm really,

Vanessa Joy:

So fingers crossed. If anyone's listening to this, that is in the Austin area. Let me know. We'll have coffee on me.

Raymond Hatfield:

That's great. Now let's go ahead and transition again. Let's go ahead and talk a little bit more about photography because this year you were announced you became one of Canon's explorers of a light, and this is a huge accomplishment. This is cannons ambassador program, right?

Vanessa Joy:

Yes. Yep. So that only works. It's either three or five wedding photographers have this title. It's not like they give it out like candy. There are more for other forms of photography other genres, but out of wedding photographers, there's I think, I want to say there's only three, but there could be five. So yeah, it's something that is not given out very easily. I worked really hard to get there and no, there is no magic sauce to get that title. It's just a lot of hard work, a lot of relationships. And

Raymond Hatfield:

That was my next question. What's the magic sauce to get in

Vanessa Joy:

There. Isn't yeah, there really isn't, you know, it's everything and it's, you know, it's a relationship with the company. So they're going to choose people that fit the mold based on what they need at the time. You know, I think when I became an Explorer flight, it was, you know, like to my marketing edge, you know, I'm sure hopefully they liked other things, you know, checked a couple more boxes for them, but I think they were looking for people more with that kind of marketing and social media. And I know that because as an Explorer of light, I created their very first Instagram real and a couple more coming out. Yeah. So really fun. You know, when they had, let's just say Joe BW, sinker, Dennis, Reggie, which some of the Canon explorers of light, like in their legacy program, they were looking for probably more high profile photographers being at Dennis Reggie shot, like one of the Kennedy weddings and Joe BW shot like Christina, I Galera and Jay loaves, one of all of their weddings.

Vanessa Joy:

And so that was probably what the multiple is then. And Lauren knows what the mold is now, if there's just no straight path there. But it was very exciting. The sad part was it's like January, right? That's when they announced that it's like, I felt like it all my dreams come true. We line up all of this stuff. I'm going to do places I'm going to go as a plant can explore of light that conferences and then all done all downhill. It's like, awesome. So that was going to be my best year ever. But I think everyone says that like 2020 was going to be the best year ever. And then now it's not.

Raymond Hatfield:

Oh, of course. Yeah. And became universally known as one of the, the worst. So I guess tell me a little bit more about this program as far as you have to prove obviously, technical abilities, as far as your understanding of photography. I guess what else makes the explorers of lights stand out? I guess, I don't know where else I was going with that question. What, what makes being an Explorer of light or your work? What do you think it is about your work that makes that made use? Hold on, what was it about your work that you think made? What is the question that I'm trying to come up with

Vanessa Joy:

About my work or who I am that made them pick me over other people

Raymond Hatfield:

From a technical standpoint? Yeah. I know that you mentioned the, the, the social media there for a little bit, but what do you think I take? No, no, no, I'm sorry. And now we've had like nine questions here. This is the worst. I apologize know, Oh my gosh, this is, this is going to go down as one of the worst questions in beginning of photography, podcast history here. Sorry about that. Now I guess, what is it about your work that you continue to strive for, that you think made you a shoe-in for, for this opportunity?

Vanessa Joy:

A couple of things. I think it's my work being solid, but also continually growing. And I also think just based on the projects I've had given to me by Canon, it has to do with the versatility of what I can do. So for example, I got commissioned when the [inaudible] came out, I had it for a couple of months and I made their official commercial for the [inaudible]. But then on the sidelines, it wasn't that I was just like, Hey, I'm Vanessa joy, I'm a photographer. And here's what I can do with the [inaudible]. That's not what I did. I showed how floggers can use it and makeup artists and travel photographers and DJs. And I have a way of finding the other uses and like the more consumer based uses for cameras so that they become more than just pro photographer use, because as much as pro photographers are awesome, we are like that big in the scheme of consumers that any company needs to sell to, they need to sell to a bigger consumer base.

Vanessa Joy:

And I think they enjoy that because the next thing they did was they had made you videos for the [inaudible] Mark two. And that is definitely more of a consumer beginner photographer camera. I freaking love that camera by the way, I just shot an entire day using nothing but that camera, it was awesome. I can't wait for those videos to come out, but that was the next thing. And then with that, I'm showing, you know, how to use it as a webcam. I'm showing how to use it, you know, you're photographing your kids. So I think, well, you know, they want to see great work and it improving and solid work. I think it also has to do with their marketing objectives. Where can we apply up this can Explorer plate to really show what this camera can do. And not even like in a, you know, I'm a mom, so I'm going to show off what it can do with the kids, not like that, but more like they made this thing and they don't even really know what consumers are going to think about it and what it can do until they give it to us.

Vanessa Joy:

And they're like, what do you guys think of this? So us having more, more of a multifaceted mindset of ways that you use cameras and who uses cameras and what methods and is it photos? Is it video? I think all of that is really valuable to them.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. Of well, of course. And you know, like you said, I think that you're a great person to be able to do that as you're able to find those little nuances that make it unique for somebody versus somebody else, which is great. Now, if somebody was interested in becoming an, a Canon Explorer of light right there, looking off into the future and they're like, man, getting a designation like that would be fantastic, but they just got their first camera. What aspect of photography do you think that they should probably focus on long-term or most right now?

Vanessa Joy:

Well, Ooh, that's hard to say. I'm not going to say any specific genre makes a difference because they've got some really cool genres of photographers in the ELL program. They've got Terrelle Lloyd, who's the official photographer for the 49ers. They've gotten, going to be bad at everyone's names, but they recently just got this guy who is awesome. And he's like a skateboard or BMX photographer. That's really well known, you know, a ton of different types of photographers. So this job jogger, I don't think makes too much of a difference. You know, if you're really niche, they might not find it useful because you're unlike in that EDB D little market that you're speaking to. But I think you have to do like all the things, cause it's a constant moving target. So Canon needs you to be a good photographer, but you really also kind of need to be a good public speaker because that's where they're going to utilize you in a lot of different ways. And you also need to be pretty good about marketing and for cannon, I know they're really big on brand loyalty. They, and they don't want it in a way where it's like, Oh, you know, we're the best. No, they just want people that love can inter represent cannon. So that that's part of it too. Granted, you know, if you're just starting out, you might not be able to afford everything cannon, but that's okay. Grow.

Raymond Hatfield:

Yeah. It takes time. Right. It takes time. So I know that now we've just looked at the clock here and now we've gone over our allotted time here, which I, yeah, I apologize. I should have been paying closer attention before I let you go. Is there anything that maybe I didn't ask you today that you want to make sure that you know, photographers just getting started in photography who are maybe unsure of where this road is going to take them? Is there anything that you want to make sure that they, that they know and fully understand about photography?

Vanessa Joy:

Wow. Well, one, it, the gear doesn't matter. You can be a great photographer, even if you can't afford expensive gear, as gear gets more expensive, it's, you know, it's good. There's a reason it's more expensive, but you know, don't be disheartened if you're starting at a lower place. That's why I actually, I'm creating this whole YouTube series all about budget, photography gear and putting it in pro photographers hands and still making great, great imagery. So there's that, but just, just keep going at it. You know, it has to be something that you love the climb for. You know, you can't just be, Oh, photography is great. I'm going to take pictures. And then in six months when it's not providing a living for you, you're like, eh, screw this. You know, you ha you have to love the climb for the sake of the climb.

Vanessa Joy:

Not for the sake of becoming a pro photographer, becoming success successful or quitting your day job. And that's all amazing things. Yes, that's great. But after you've quit your day job, the hard work is still there and you still got to do the same hard work. In fact, it actually gets a little bit harder. And then when you're this level of success, you're, you know, six figure photographer. That's great. Now you got to keep it up. So those little successes should never be the reason why you're working. You have to love it for the work itself, because that's the thing. That's your daily life, not the success.