Martin Moore is a commercial product photographer for KOSS Headphones form Milwaukee Wisconsin who after 20 years as a mechanic left his job to become a full-time staff photographer. Today we’re going to chat about leaving your job and following your passion.
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In This Episode You'll Learn:
The unconventional start Martin got in photography
What it was about photography that got Martin so excited while working as a mechanic
Where Martin learned photography
How Martin booked and shot his first wedding
What about the technical side of photography is most challenging
How a commercial product photographer gets ready for a shoot
What its like working and shooting for a large company
How much gear Martin uses and his most used piece of equipment during a shoot
What Matin heard being taught as gospel to beginners but in practice is’’t as important
Premium Members Also Learn:
What you need to be valuable in today’s workforce as a photographer
The pros and cons of being a staff photographer vs a freelance photographer
How to get the attention of a company you want to work for
Why building a personal brand is so important even when working as an employee
Resources:
Did you enjoy this episode? Check out more recent interviews with other great guests!
Full Episode Transcription:
Disclaimer: The transcript was transcribed electronically by Temi.com and may contain errors that do not reflect accurately what the speaker said. Because of this, please do not quote this automated transcript.
Raymond: 00:00 Today on the beginner photography podcast, we are learning all about product photography. So let's get into it.
Intro: 00:08 Welcome to the beginner photography podcast, a weekly podcast for those who believe that moments matter most and that a beautiful photo is more than just a sum of its settings, a show for those who want to do more with the gear they have to take better photos today. And now your host Raymond Hatfield.
Raymond: 00:26 Oh, welcome. Welcome. Welcome to the show. Welcome to a new year, a new decade, a new decade full of hopefully incredible photos and stories that you can tell with your camera. I know that the beginning of the year always brings a lot of new listeners. You know, lots of people get a camera right after the holidays and they're looking to figure out how to use it. So if you're new here, welcome. I hope that you enjoy the show. A new episode comes out every week and in between episodes you can chat with other shooters in the safest place on the internet for new photographers to share photos and ask questions. That's the beginning of photography podcast. Facebook group, we would love to have you and see your slice of the world and you know, keep up with all of your progress in the future as well. But before we get into today's interview, I want to give a quick shout out to Amanda Vickers for leaving the show, a five star review in iTunes.
Raymond: 01:26 Amanda says, I honestly was very skeptical about how I could learn photography from a podcast since it's such a visual thing, but I walk away with new tips after each episode. Simple ideas like join a three 65 and shoot every day to specific camera setting ideas and even lighting tips. So Amanda, thank you so much for your review. I am so glad that you are getting tips from the diverse set of photographers who we obviously have here on the podcast. And I'm glad that you are taking action on those tips like joining a three 65. So for those who are actually unfamiliar, a 365 is a it's a photo a day project. So here in 2020 since, it's a leap year. It's actually a three 66. But regardless, the point is, is that you simply take a photo with intention every single day. So when you carry around your camera with you, you become more comfortable with the camera.
Raymond: 02:20 You foster an eye for composition and you can see better lighting because you know, you're using those skills every day and if you do anything every day, you're going to get really good at it. So that is why Kimberly Irish has actually taken the lead and started a 365 challenge, a Facebook group that I've been participating in already. And it's, it's so great because I already just in these last two weeks, it's been incredible just to see how much I look at things differently. I feel like I'm faster with my camera. I have a great photos of my kids now that I would've just passed up previously. So if you want to join the three 65 and see what it's all about, I have a link to join the Facebook group in the show notes for this episode. Are you going to do is swipe up and you will find the link or just search Facebook for beginner photography podcast, daily photo challenge.
Raymond: 03:13 It's fun stuff. It's fun stuff. Just like today's interview, fun stuff with Martin Moore who is a product photographer and content developer for an international companies. So there's going to be a lot of great tips in here and as always I save a portion of the interview where the guests shares topics related to the business side of photography and making money with your camera specifically for premium members. So today, premium members are going to learn what you need to be valuable in today's work force as a photographer, the pros and cons of being a staff photographer versus a freelance photographer, how to get the attention of a company that you want to work for and why building a personal brand is so important even when working as an employee. So there is a lot of great stuff for premium members today and if you want answers to all of those questions, be sure to become a premium member by heading over to beginner photography, podcast.com clicking that premium membership button up at the top and joined today.
Raymond: 04:13 So that is it. Oh and a quick shout out to Jim Sinicki for setting up this interview with Martin and stick around to the end of the interview for some exciting information if you've been wondering how exactly to price your photography. So let's go ahead and get on into this interview right now. Today's guest is Martin Moore, a commercial product photographer from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, who after 20 years as a mechanic, left his job to become a full time photographer. Today we're going to chat about leaving your job and following your passion. Martin, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Martin Moore: 04:51 Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. I really, really appreciate it. It's always fun doing these things and chopping it up, talking about photography and just my journey and the hustle
Raymond: 04:59 Grind. Yeah, photography is definitely a fun thing to talk about. It's interesting when I, when we first started the podcast, I never thought that it would become successful by any stretch of the imagination because photography is such a visual form. And yet the more that I do this, the more that I find out that, you know, photography really isn't about a photograph. It's about a feeling. It's about you know, those emotions and those things you can feel without seeing something. But there's something about that visual element that really, absolutely, I dunno, kicks it up a notch I suppose. But before, before we get into too much photography stuff, as I mentioned there, you kind of had an unconventional start in photography. So can you share it with me and the listeners how you got started in all of this?
Martin Moore: 05:44 Yeah, that's a, that's an understatement. I so I started working on cars in 1997 when I was in high school. And then like I managed a Jiffy lube, which is like an oil change place. And then I became master Honda technician and I think 99. And that's what I did for like a living for a career all the way up until 2017 I dropped out of college after like my first semester I was going for like internet media arts. I don't even know what that was, but all I've ever known was cars. And then in 2017 I got my job here at cost headphones. You probably can't tell that shooting all of our commercials, our photography, doing all of our emails and website stuff and blog and all, all of our content. But the the kind of the segue in between all of that was like a 10 year period of just starting shooting pictures the same way everyone else does.
Martin Moore: 06:38 Just going out, taking pictures of our architecture in bridges with your friends and getting into portrait photography. Then I started getting into shooting weddings. Then that kind of led to commercial photography, doing stuff for hotels and product photography. And then around 2000, I think it was 2015 I didn't have a single photo shoot for like the whole year, and I was super bombed. And I was like, well, I'm gonna start my YouTube channel and start blogging. And then that was really the catalyst for Martin Moore as a brand and my photography and my filmmaking stuff. That kind of like really pushed me to where I am today. And I started getting noticed and started getting a lot of opportunities. So that's kind of the two minute like condensed elevator pitch or whatever, whatever or story. But I mean there was a, there was a lot that kind of went into getting from just taking pictures of, of, of bridges in like random models to, you know, shooting box shooting, commercial photography and products for box art and billboards and stuff like that. So we can dive deeper into that if you want to let us know,
Raymond: 07:44 Do that. Because I, I'm, I'm always fascinated behind. I think that you did a great job. Most people come on and they say, Oh, I picked up a camera. You know, I got good at it 10 years later, I'm a professional and you're [inaudible]
Martin Moore: 07:57 Hold on back it up a little bit really quick. I like to know some of the nuances of, of how you got that because photography is, I mean it always, even in its heyday back in like the seventies, 80s and 90s where every single person you knew is like a wedding photographer or a portrait photographer. Even back then doing it for a living was still a really, it was a tough gig and it wasn't one that was very like lucrative and paid very well. And it's even harder today with the whole Instagram culture. And I mean it really is true. You can, you can take one of these and I can shoot bang. I mean I shoot all of our commercials for costs on this, on my iPhone. And so the competition is vastly increased nowadays. And so it's even harder. So the fact that I'm able to do this for a living and make a really good living and do what I love is you just don't, you don't kind of see that very often.
Martin Moore: 08:50 And then to, to kind of get this career that the way that I got it is even more, it makes people like how the heck did you do this? So yeah. So then tell me about, cause obviously there was that time you're working at a, at Honda for the majority of your career and then at some point you got yourself a camera, right? So I got this little bit about what was it about the, the, the camera or the photography that got you in the first place? So I actually took photography in high school and I made my freshman year, I might be making that up freshman, sophomore year. And this was back in the day. Okay. Boomer when like cameras were still filmed. So I learned how to shoot photography on film cameras, develop my own film. And then I didn't really do anything with it, actually.
Martin Moore: 09:35 I was shooting him. I think my dad had a bunch of old Minolta cameras. And I didn't really do anything with it. I was in the music at the time and like I was really into just bands and that's kind of what I wanted to do. That was my creative output. And I didn't do anything with photography till about 2008. I met my wife and we went and took our first trip together to Las Vegas and I got this little crappy Kodak point and shoot camera was like 4.5 megapixel. And as soon as we were up in the air, I started taking pictures and videos. And when we got back from our trip, like, I don't know, I really enjoyed the photos of the mountains I took and just kind of the random people in the street. And I made a video to like a little vacation video with all the photos and videos I took.
Martin Moore: 10:13 And that was really the catalyst for me getting interested in photography. A year later, I shot my first wedding in Mexico and then I got another wedding in another wedding. And I met people on Instagram and started like hanging out and going on like photo meetups and shoots and stuff like that. And kind of just like how every photographer gets their start. It just kind of snowballed and I just made the time for it. I wanted to make the time for it and it really started completing me in the more and more I got interested in not good at photography. The lesson that's I really cared about my music. And that really kind of just overtook my whole need to be like a creative until I started when commercial photography and product photography. I've done some stuff for [inaudible] Honda, this company, sweet trio that makes like really delicious chocolates.
Martin Moore: 11:05 A lot of like towers here in Milwaukee that like really big towers, like architectural photography. But it happened really quickly as much as it happened really slowly, if that makes any kind of sense. But the, the only reason why I was ever able to kind of build something for myself was because like, I'm not the best photographer in the world. I'm not, I don't make the best commercials in the world. I don't make them as you do videos in the world. But the one thing that I was able to do is kind of brand myself and get people to not want to hire any photographer they want. I wanted to get them to hire Martin Moore first and foremost. And so my YouTube channel is kind of a blessing in disguise. I started that because I didn't have any other, I didn't have any photography jobs that year and it was kind of my creative output and, and it's funny how that's kind of where everything that I've built now kind of stems from in Martin Moore and air quotes as a brand is really what set me apart from every other photographer trying to do the exact same thing.
Martin Moore: 12:04 It's a personal branding was really the, the thing that got me to where I am today, if that makes any sense at all.
Raymond: 12:13 It does. No, no, it does. It does. And I'm really excited to, to kind of dive deeper into that cause I don't think that that's something that we've really explored much on the podcast. But you said something interesting there that I want to explore a bit more, which was that you went to Vegas, you had yourself that you know, Canon points your camera, your later John, your first wedding in Mexico, right. Was it first of all, was it still with that Kodak pointing to camera and second of all?
Martin Moore: 12:40 No. Okay. Let's start with that first before I move on to that next question. No, it was with a, a, it was with a better Kodak. It wasn't, it was like one of those advanced, it wasn't like a digital SLR, but it wasn't a point and shoot, it was one of those weird like hybrids where like it had, you could adjust aperture and exposure and all that stuff in ISO, but it still had like the attached lens. It was like a smart, dumb camera. Gotcha. You know what I'm talking about? I don't even know if they make them anymore.
Raymond: 13:06 No, no, I know. I mean, I dunno if Kodak does, but my my cannon, I think it was the G G seven, I mean that's essentially like the, the same type of thing where it's, yes, it's at a touch lens, but there's, there's more of those exactly. Exposure controls that you have there. So was that wedding for like family and friends? Was that,
Martin Moore: 13:27 That was for, that was for a friend. Gotcha. Okay. So he was w I was in the wedding, but I was still, yeah. So I was still snapping pictures and stuff. And when I got back, he posted them online, tag me in like Facebook. And this was back in 2009, I think. And I think it was a matter of weeks or someone else. It was like, Hey, I'm my friend's getting married. Like, do you, would you, do you do weddings? I was like, yeah. So I did it for like, I was like $600 and it was like the most stressful thing of like my entire life. Just one thing to like shoot pictures like for your friends and people that you know, and it's another one to like take on a job and take someone else's money that you don't know, you know and pray that you don't mess it up.
Martin Moore: 14:09 And so I remember how stressful that, like first paid wedding for someone that I didn't know was, and I was like, Oh my God, I don't know if I want it. I don't know if this is something that I want to do. But the pictures were amazing. They love them. They were so happy. And it was like instantly I got another job and I didn't even have time to think about how bad the photos actually work. Cause looking back there, they're not good photos. I mean, this was back when like HDR was in its prime, so, Oh yeah. So like the trees and the, the dresses and the hair were all HDR [inaudible] and it was they just, they weren't good. But I just kept learning. I kept doing, I kept solely branding myself and people for whatever reason, just kept hiring me.
Raymond: 14:51 So let's, let's talk more about the the, the, the learning aspect. Cause as far as we've heard from you so far, you have the camera, you took photos that you liked and then you had a wedding. That first wedding that you had. Did you have already that understanding of you know, how to get an exposure and how to, you know, get something or how to change something to achieve what it was that you wanted? Or was it, was it mainly on auto and then you grew after that? Youtube, YouTube videos, YouTube videos. Yes.
Martin Moore: 15:20 Yes. What is ISO do? What is, what is, what happens if I overexpose something. And it was just, you know, why, why is this person's fate forehead washed out? And it was basically just Google and YouTube. I didn't have any mentors. I didn't read any books. I didn't even really experiment with my camera. I would just take a picture. If there was something that I felt was off, I would just go on YouTube, figure out what it was, and then learn how to adjust it and learn, learn the differences. And the pros and cons of white balance and exposure and ISO and shutter speed. And just kind of taught myself how those things all work together to get whatever the desired image I wanted was, I didn't even know like Boca will, I didn't know that. Like when you like have a wide open aperture like that, like deer, you know, your focus plane is gets smaller and smaller and smaller. And so like I couldn't figure out why I would take a picture of someone's like to the side and their ear wasn't focused on their, I wasn't, so it was just all, it was all YouTube trying to figure. I figured that stuff out. You know.
Raymond: 16:26 So then how long would you say it took from the time we decided that you were going to get serious about photography to the, to the first time that you really felt confident with your camera, how long do you think that progression now there's some sort of competency right now that you feel comfortable?
Martin Moore: 16:45 So, you know, you always, you always think, at least for me, maybe I'm projecting, but with everything that I've done, whether it was a YouTube video or a podcast that I've done, or a radio show or a picture I've taken, you always hit that point where you're like, this is the best photo I've ever taken. That was the best podcast I ever did. And then a year later you reflect and you look at those pictures or that video you made or that podcast, Iran, and you're like, boy, that was trash. So I've, I've, I've kind of just learned that I'm just, I, I'm, I'm never reached the apotheosis of my understanding for all this stuff. Even, even when I started for costs. I remember I first started and I couldn't figure out why. Like I couldn't get like the headphone logo, like perfectly in focus and, and like just even trying to find like the perfect aperture where I'd have a nice blurry background, but the, I was in focus and then the logo on the headphone also had to be in focus.
Martin Moore: 17:40 It's not something you think about when you do portrait photography. All you really care about is that the eyes and the eyelashes are in focus. The nose, the mouth and everything can kind of fade out. When you start putting products in there, you have to make sure the sneakers are also in focuses on as you know. And so even now navigating that kind of stuff and figuring out like, what are the best settings, I'm still fumbling, fumbling through things. It's just always a learning process. So to answer the question, you know, when did I start feeling confident? Never really, to be honest. Like I just, I've just always feel like I'm learning and I always look back a year from now and I'm just like, yeah, my stuff's way better now. And so it's just, yeah. Yeah. Just still still moving up all the time. Yeah. It's just, I'm, I'm on a, I'm on a going up steps. I've, I just never felt like I've been on an escalator, if that makes any kind of sense.
Raymond: 18:26 No, it does. It does. And I think, I think it's interesting because looking back, it's easy to feel like there's some sort of natural progression sometimes, but looking forward, there never is. Like, there's never, like, sometimes it may seem easy, right? Like, Oh, I just gotta learn this thing, this thing and that thing, and then I'm good, but going forward. Yeah. Then you get to that one shoot and you're like, I don't know what to do for this. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Martin Moore: 18:52 There's so many shoots on mine where I'm just like, I don't know. They're just all so different, which is what I love about the challenge of doing photography or even shooting videos for that matter is just the challenge that is, every situation is always so different. So it's like everything you learn on one shoot, half the time, it's not even applicable to the next shoot. And so I think that's what I really enjoy about photography, especially commercial photography because at least with weddings or portraits, there's room for slightly noisy photos or, you know or I don't know, a myriad of imperfections and an image with commercial photography. Everything that I shoot with this camera for a box or a billboard, I mean it's gotta be noise free, tax sharp. I mean we use pan tones for everything. So all the, there's no, you don't use filters when you do commercial photography, what color the headphone is in real life that we're selling. You has gotta be the exact same color in the picture or that's false advertising. And so I, I really enjoy those kinds of nuances when it comes to fraternal commercial photography. And so that's always just a hard thing to kind of just learn and stay up on top. So I never feel that
Raymond: 20:02 W when you had first started, you know, obviously filters are, are, are, I don't wanna say universal, but I think people understand, you know, how to use filters. It's very common. It's very common for people to put filters on their photos. Even even like, you know, wedding photos that I made deliver, cause people are just kind of so ingrained into, Oh I'm going to upload a photo, put a filter on it. So was that something that you were doing early on and was that a hard lesson? I know I'm not even joking. I've never used a preset or a filter ever. So tell me, tell me then about how I'm really interested in that. I'm really just a GMAT mainly because a lot of people take photos if they don't like it, they try to fix it in editing if you're not, if you're not, you know, using filters or a one click solution, you know, was it trying to get it right in camera, was that always your intention?
Martin Moore: 20:57 No. Right now I try to get it right in camera. But I always like to just take every single image as its own piece of art in its own story and
Martin Moore: 21:11 Give it its own individual attention, rather just some photo in a, in some giant batch edit. I don't even batch edit like photos even that are from the exact same. Like I just did a shoot with Grace Weber. She's like the girl who she wrote like the first track on chance and wrappers, a Grammy album. I just did a shoot with her last week. Literally, I didn't change a single setting. I could have, I literally could have just linked all the files and batch edited all of them and I still just one by one individually edited the eyes and brought out definition in her outfit and did things to the background. And I just, I just prefer to focus on an individual image rather than just blanketly kind of edit everything. And maybe that's why I've gotten to where I am today. Maybe not. But that's just always been my approach, I guess.
Raymond: 21:59 That makes any sense. So, yeah, so, so again, I'm kind of, I'm, I'm, I'm really interested in that. I'm really interested in that. The editing side of things tends to, at least for me, take up a good portion of my time. So I'm always looking for ways to speed up that work.
Martin Moore: 22:16 The edit, the editing is what is going to separate your image from everyone else's image. It's no different than when you're cutting film. The, if I just hit record on my phone and take a video of you going to the grocery store, you give that one single video clip to 10 different film editors and how they cut that video up and splice it together for a final montage. Those edits are what separates every single one of their final products. And it's the same thing with a photo. It's going to look the same no matter what person like hits the button on it. But how you, how you make the colors pop and what you do with the eyes, how you smooth in this skin, what you do with the background, how you crop it, all of that stuff. That's what makes the image uniquely yours. And that's the one thing that no one else can copy. A preset or a filter. All that is, is just the same settings, you know, that someone else put on their phone. And so what's uniquely about it? It's yours, you know? So I guess that's how I've always,
Raymond: 23:24 And I've looked at it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's my signature. Right, right, right. So if, if, if the, if the edit is the signature, obviously getting to some level within camera is obviously very important. So 100%. When you were starting out, when you were getting started, I know that, you know, you said that you did a lot of searching on YouTube whenever you had any sort of problem, but was there anything on the technical side of photography that maybe took longer to fully understand or to grasp or to no, it truly master noise.
Martin Moore: 23:59 [Inaudible] Noise has been the biggest thorn in my ass forever since day day one. Combating noisy photos has been harder than like chasing light, which are like for me that was always such a really hard thing to do. Like just chasing the perfect light. Cause I don't use like when I do our shoots for, cause I don't use bounce boards or reflectors or any of that stuff. I just, I just chase the light and I make sure I use the sun or reflections off of buildings or I dunno, a neon sign. And that's what I use to light my subjects or light the Chrome on a pair of headphones. And that's a really difficult thing to kind of comprehend and be able to navigate in real time. But even as hard and as difficult as like that is combating noise is just, is just been, I just still feel like I still mess around with it. Like I still get frustrated by it.
Raymond: 24:55 It's still after all these years. So where, why do you think you had such a problem in the beginning and why do you think still today? Like what is it today that is your biggest struggle?
Martin Moore: 25:07 Back in the day it was my camera. I mean, I think my first digital SLR is a Nikon D 3000, which for me was like a game changer. But I mean those things you could bump the ISO up to in the best situations 800 and you'd already start to see noise. I, I shoot on an icon [inaudible] and even at like ISO 2000, I'm starting to see like noise that like I'm not okay with. And I saw 2000 really don't give you a whole lot of wiggle room when you're even a remotely lit situation. You know, like even in a room like this, what it looks like, it's well lit. If you want to bump down to F 2.8 F 2.4, something like that, like you're going to have to really start jacking up the jacking up the ISO and I just, it drives me crazy. I hate noise. I hate noise.
Raymond: 25:58 That's interesting. Still to this day you are this is still something that that you worry about when it comes to cameras. Is it how much does that affect, you know, getting new cameras for you? Would you say that's the most important?
Martin Moore: 26:10 That's the most important thing for me. That's why I really have finally started getting interested in mirrorless cameras because if I can bump the shutter speed down just a little bit more, like in really crazy situations to like, I dunno, a 50th of a second or 40th of a second, like handheld. And just get that, you know, and be able to lower my eyes on just a tiny, just to stop or to like for me that would be, that would be huge, especially if I'm shooting like at nighttime downtown or anywhere where it's really dimly lit. Cause I hate, I hate flashes. I hate, I don't like reflectors because I feel like you can tell when someone uses a reflector because it's so perfectly lit. And so like, I just really like to do everything in camera. And so yeah, a mirrorless camera would really, I think kind of helped with that, but I'm not the biggest fan of mirrorless. So then what is holding you back from your mirrorless Martin Moore: 27:06 Oh, a battery. I'd, I ripped through batteries so I don't like I can with this thing I never have to. And then just the lack of buttons. I mean, I, I, I adjust Calvin. I adjust. There's so much stuff that I need to be able to adjust on the fly. And mirrorless cameras are compact and they just don't have as many dedicated buttons. And it might sound stupid.
Raymond: 27:31 No, no, no, no. I'm sorry. I'm sorry for laughing at that. I just, I wasn't expecting that answer. It was great. It'll start that
Martin Moore: 27:36 I need those in a, in a, in a touchscreen is not good enough for me. So yeah, probably those two things.
Raymond: 27:43 [Inaudible] Yeah. Do you think now obviously a lot of new photographers getting into photography, maybe they still have you know, I mean, they might still have that, that [inaudible] you know, just getting started with would you say that they're still able to
Raymond: 27:59 Take, like if they, if they want to get into commercial photography, are they able to do so and get started with that D 3000? Or do you think that they have to go full frame or don't even [inaudible] Martin Moore: 28:09 No, that's, it's a tough question because had you asked me that five, six years ago, I would've said, yeah, that's, that camera made me a lot of money. Totally. but camera's like the, the Nikon [inaudible] 50 or the Canona. What's that one? The E is the add. That's,
Raymond: 28:31 No, that's a, that'd be a crop sensor. So full frame would be the five D series.
Martin Moore: 28:35 Yes. Five D five D. So many of those full frame cameras are so accessible now to people that the competition is so much. How are you seeing kids in high school with, you know, Sony mirrorless is and, and full frame cameras. And so the stakes are so much higher now and there's so many more just consumers using equipment that is producing really, really clean images that I think it would be really difficult now to try and do like a commercial shoot and try and compete image quality wise. I know that sounds stupid, but okay, go ahead. Finish your sentence. I mean it's the same thing w with this I shoot all of our commercials on my iPhone and if I didn't tell you, you'd have no clue. And so it makes anybody who is shooting with something like this, it, it raises the stakes for them. And so I don't know. It's if to me, equipment matters and it doesn't matter at the same time, if that makes any kind of sense. Yes. Yeah. Does, in fact, that's
Raymond: 29:42 Exactly what I was going to bring up because I was going to play devil's advocate here and talk about that article that you had wrote about that was advocating for more use of for iPhone photos. Obviously their firm has a much smaller sensor than than full frame time. So do you just see the two cameras as two totally separate tools for two? Totally.
Martin Moore: 30:01 Yeah. That's all the hours, their tools and no one is better than the other. And it really comes down to your, the individual's vision of whatever story that they're trying to tell. Like, I could shoot, I could probably shoot a wedding on this thing, cam pictures better than a lot of people probably could with their digital SLR. But if you're going to try and blow up the images on an iPhone, they're just not, you know, so it's, it's this weird skill, ability, vision execution versus like, how does the tool help you kind of enhance all of that rather than the tool. The tool is never going to enhance your vision or whatever kind of story you're trying to tell. It's always going to be the other way around. The tool is going to kind of be an accessory to that.
Martin Moore: 30:54 At least that's what it's been for me. It's a fine line. A lot of, yeah. I think a lot of people think that they need to get a full frame camera because it's going to make them a better photographer. That's not the case. If you can't take awesome photos with this, getting a better camera is not going to do anything for you. But if you already take awesome photos and videos with this, then yes. A better piece of equipment, a better tool is going to just make whatever you're doing, even much better, if that makes any [inaudible].
Raymond: 31:19 Yeah. So is that the advice you would give if somebody came up to you at a party and said, Hey kind of, I like photography. What camera should I get? You'd say you don't use the iPhone for now.
Martin Moore: 31:30 Yeah. He's a master. Your iPhone master, your Nikon D 3,400. Master your add, master your point and shoot camera, you know, your RX 100 master that thing first in, in before you waste a bunch of money on a D eight 50 or a Sony mirrorless or a Hasselblad or whatever the hell you get. Because those are not going in some cases, all that's going to do is just make you a worse photographer in my opinion. You know?
Raymond: 31:59 No, I, I love it. I love it. It's, it's, it's really refreshing take I think as somebody who interestingly enough, actually just yesterday I recorded an interview with somebody who has a, is literally a master photographer, has a master's degree in photography and we, we had a long discussion about kind of that formal education route as well as, you know, the importance of gear. And I think that your take is, is, is very refreshing and it's it's completely valid because
Martin Moore: 32:28 You lived it, you're here. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, if I didn't know what I was talking about, I won't, this isn't what I'm doing. And living in a, on a worldwide multimillion dollar company won't be me. Not to mention all the other companies that pay me to do stuff. But it really comes down to your vision and then your execution of it. I mean, those are the two most important things. And you know, gear even sometimes your doesn't matter. And this is, I'm going to be talking about video, but you can apply some photography, but look at like all of the videos that Nike makes, like especially on their YouTube channel, they all look like they're all grainy. They look like they were shot with an iPhone, but they tell very compelling stories. And you forget that the thing isn't shot on some giant camera rig with a gimbal with a giant crew of people.
Martin Moore: 33:17 It was just some filmmaker that use some small little camera, told a really compelling story. And so as long as you're telling a compelling story in your image or your video or whatever it is that you're creating, that's the most important part. And the tool is just an accessory to that. The tool is never going to make or break. You know, your, your creative. I think V very cool in my opinion. Very cool. Because people have been making awesome stuff for centuries. So it's not like, it's not like all of a sudden in the last 10 years because we have a mirrorless cameras and all this stuff. All of a sudden now all the dope creative stuff is being made. We, we haven't had iPhones and all these full frame mirrorless cameras up until recently. So how was everyone else making all these iconic award-winning photos and videos and stuff with, you know, technology that's not as good as what we have today.
Martin Moore: 34:12 It's all vision and execution. So it's just that tool. It's just that tool. Yeah, it's just how, how you use the tools and sometimes you have to compensate if you have a crappier camera you have to compensate and do things with lighting. Maybe you have to get a couple of extra lights or you have to get a a, I have a use a gimbal for this thing. Sony mirrorless camera. You can just hand hold it, but I have to compensate for what that can do by putting this on a gimbal. Maybe you have a D, Nikon, D 3,400 that gets really grainy at ISO 800 and this doesn't till 2000. All right. So maybe you need to get a studio, like maybe you do need to use a flash, maybe do you need to use a reflector? Maybe you can only shoot during the daylight.
Martin Moore: 34:50 So, so you have to compensate for your shortcomings of your equipment. But that in no way should ever hinder you from being able to execute whatever creative vision that you have. And so that new iPhone commercial that you've seen with the snowball fights, that was all shot on the iPhone. It was shot by that director shot on an iPhone. So yeah, he had to use a bunch of crazy gimbals and stuff like that. But did that any of that really cost any more than what they would've shot at with whatever, like a red camera. So yeah. Yeah, yeah. Your vision and execution is the most important thing above anything else in my opinion that's going to be probably the member and a lot of people, a lot of, a lot of people don't like that, especially pro photographers that there's a lot of people that are just hell bent that, that gear, gear, gear, gear, gear. It's all about the gear.
Raymond: 35:42 That's a, that's sad. I know I've taken a lot of a lot of great photos. A lot of my favorite photos are taken with garbage cameras and I think that that, that kind of releases some of the pressure on you, if that makes sense. Like you don't like when I have my, a, I shoot Fuji so I shoot me only so nice. Nice, nice. If I have that camera in my hand, there's kind of this a feeling inside of me that I have to perform. I have to, you know, get a sound, great image, you know, and then I'm always looking at things a little bit differently, but if I just had my phone in my hand, it's a little bit more relaxed and sometimes I get a photo that I don't know means a little bit more to me. Maybe it's not as good technically, but a vision and execution I think, like you said, is absolutely there.
Martin Moore: 36:25 And that's why I like to shoot videos with this thing because this on a tiny little gimbal allows me to be way more maneuverable, way more creative, and just not think about this giant camera that's on a five axis gimbal that I'm holding with T, you know, like that's intrusive. All I'm thinking about is this heavy camera in my hand, whereas this I can just get anywhere I want. And it, it, it almost allows me to be more creative. Like, like the dumber tech almost lets me be more creative and the end product is almost better because I'm using a lesser, you know, a lesser quality. Raymond: 37:05 It's a, it's a crazy time to be alive, isn't it? A great time to be alive. Yeah. I want to talk right now a little bit more about the job that you have. What is the, what, what's the, what's the technical title of your position?
Martin Moore: 37:18 Content developer was as vague as they could make it.
Raymond: 37:22 And what does that mean as a photographer?
Martin Moore: 37:25 Basically basically anything that you hear, see, smell or touch that involves content for cos headphones I make. So every email, every blog post, every picture on social media, every ad you see in a newspaper or a magazine, every billboard in the subway system and Ukraine, every commercial on TV, every YouTube video, when you go to our website all of that stuff is I create.
Raymond: 37:55 So let's, let's explore that. Let's say cost is coming out with some new headphones. You have to are, Oh well then perfect. This is going to be totally relevant. What does that mean for you? How do you prepare for the onset of, of media? So
Martin Moore: 38:11 Basically, you know, we'll just start developing a pair of headphones, which usually it will take anywhere from, I would say anywhere from a year to maybe two years, depending on what type of product it is. And our engineers will be tuning them. We'll be getting prototypes, we'll be three D printing stuff. And then we'll eventually get like samples from the, our manufacturers that are basically going to be what the end product is. Sometimes they're just shells. They don't actually have like speakers or anything. And and then I get those and I go out and I start doing photo shoots with them. I get models and I start prepping because we need pictures for the box art. So I'll do a product photography for the box art. Sometimes that'll make it to the box. Sometimes that'll be a reference for a render.
Martin Moore: 39:01 I'll be doing lifestyle images for the back of the box for social media. I'll start doing videos for like how to pair a pair of Bluetooth headphones, the features maybe just like a general lifestyle video. And I'll start creating content for this new product so that when it comes time to launch it, we have images, we have videos, we have all the box art, we have everything that we need for the launch of that product so that we can just kind of hit the hit the asphalt running. How long does that take to prepare all that? Ah, well there's some that I'm working on right now that I think I started maybe like a couple months ago. So I would say it probably takes a solid, a solid two to three months for me to get all of the imagery, get all the videos and get all the content prepared, get the email ready.
Martin Moore: 39:49 So I need pictures for emails, I need pictures for blog posts, I need pictures for, we sent. So we'll send out sample samples to YouTube, ERs and so they'll need content and stuff like that. So yeah, probably like two or three months to kind of create all of that content. And it's cool because one day here, maybe I'll be working on the website another day, maybe I'll be downtown Milwaukee doing a photo shoot. Maybe I'll be in Chicago doing a video shoot next day. Maybe I'll be doing, we just recorded an interview with a DJ here and I like had to set up all the audio and the camera and do a interview with them. And so every day is very different here. I'll maybe one day I might be working on a sales presentation. And so it's really, really cool kind of weaving in and out of all these different areas rather than kind of just sticking to photography, which is basically what I did when I first started.
Martin Moore: 40:34 I just did a photography and video and now I do so much more. It's really cool. But now with the you know, accessibility of technology where we're able to do these things quite easily. And again, I have no college degree. This is all stuff that I just taught myself and learned. And so I think the biggest thing today for people that want to, not to get off track, that want to do this for a living, which I think a lot of people would love to shoot pictures or make videos for a living, is you have to know more than just you have to do
Mid Roll: 41:06 You are listening to the free version of the beginner photography podcast where each week you learn how world-class photographers see and capture the world around them. If you want to hear the extended interview with their best business tips to learn how to make money with your camera and then become a premium member today by heading over to beginner photography, podcast.com and click the premium membership button to join now.
Raymond: 41:34 Yeah, man, I love how you shared that progression. That seemed like, I think anybody who listened to that would be able to take away and kind of implement that into their own life. Right. Take that and see where they were, where they, where it is that they want to go and see how they can make that happen. So I just want to say thank you for sharing that. That was really patching.
Martin Moore: 41:52 The thing is too, is even if I didn't get this job and I was still working on cars, I'd still be making YouTube videos. I'd still be doing my photography on the side. I would still be doing all of this because it's what completes me as a human being. Yeah. And so you have to enjoy like the grind. You have to enjoy shooting, you have to enjoy working. You have to enjoy editing at night because if all you're chasing is kind of that end game, that end goal you'll, you'll burn out in six months.
Raymond: 42:25 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Martin Moore: 42:28 So for me I've, I've always just loved the love of the doing.
Raymond: 42:34 That's good. [inaudible] That is a, that's a, that, that feeling. It is something that is a very fulfilling and I don't think that enough people do get to feel that they don't get to feel, you know, going after what it is that they want on their own. And I love how you found that and you went after it and you went like hardcore, like, this is what it is that I'm going to do. And you didn't let it stop you. That's, that's very cool. That's a lot of people listening. I'm sure right now we're thinking, I really wish that I could. I always, I almost gave up a couple times. I almost gave up. I mean, after, you know, after so many years, I mean, it would make sense to, to have those feelings. There's days when I feel like I could easily just go serve coffee at Starbucks right now and feel happy about it. You know what I mean? But I think deep down, you know, Martin Moore: 43:21 And those are natural, those are natural feelings. Right,
Raymond: 43:23 Right, right, right, right, right. Very cool. Very cool. Thank you. Thank you. When it comes to commercial photography in and of itself, you know, lifestyle photos today we think, I think commercial shoot, you know, lots of lights, studios, assistant, lots of gear. Do we need all of that just to get started and follow up? What is, if, if so, or if not, what's the, what's the next logical step in upgrading our gear to getting to where we need to be?
Martin Moore: 43:54 Yeah. do you, do I think you need all that stuff? Not really. I mean you should see what I do all of our like product photography on, I have just those like a bunch of those white foam boards, which are really great for bouncing light off of. There's no reflections, so you can just get a bunch of white foam boards, put them by a window and you can get really good product photography. Yeah, all that stuff helps. But there's, there's a lot of hacks out there on the internet that you can do to, to get started. You can get some really cheap lighting kits and background kits and stuff. If you want to do portraits or if you to shoot products. And as far as upgrading your gear for me incremental upgrades was, was a, a, a big thing.
Martin Moore: 44:39 I didn't just go out and blow like 10 grand on like the biggest and best camera. If you have it, cool. But as far as upgrading your gear, always try to master what you have in, then move to the next thing and then master that and move to the next thing. There's just like, if I got a Nikon D eight 50, I mean, yeah, I'd be able to learn it pretty quick, but it would still be vastly different than this Nikon D seven 50, you know? And so some of that equipment can just be overwhelming and you might not be, you might use it wrong, you might not use it to its full potential. You may use it as a crutch in not shoot photos as well as you would on something. That was of a lesser quality. And so that's a good point though. For me, it was always, it was always incremental upgrades, but that can be a bunch of BS.
Raymond: 45:28 So what, then, okay, let me, let me ask this question. This will be my last question where we're totally at the end of our time here. You had a rather interesting journey into learning photography. You know, you learned from YouTube, you learned from all these sources. Is there anything that you heard being taught to photographers as gospel, but now that you're like in this working position you realize it's really not as important as it was being taught?
Martin Moore: 45:58 That's a good question, Todd. As gospel. Mmm. You know, I, I want, I want to say the rule of thirds, but I feel like that's probably going to be incorrect because boy, I follow that too a lot of the times. But I feel like there's a lot of times where like I've disregarded that and
Martin Moore: 46:22 The image ended up being like better for some reason. It's a, it's astonishing how much cropping affects your image. I feel like cropping an image is literally one of the most important aspects of what the picture that you're taking. And I don't know. I feel sometimes I feel like rule of thirds, sometimes it's something that's not always a thing you should follow. I know it's kinda stupid. Probably not what you're looking for, but I don't know. That might be one of my, I feel like I've abandoned that sometimes. I'm like, you know what this is, and you know what I say that is because I don't follow the rule of thirds when I shoot video. So I'm a huge Terrence Malick fan. He did like night of cops tree of life and he loves to push subjects like way in the corners of the image or like way to like one side of an image. She'd never follows the rule of thirds. And so I, I really enjoyed doing that with my video. I, and I do it sometimes with my photography, so that's probably why I say a rule of thirds is always gospel when you're young and you're taught photography. But for me, sometimes I abandoned that and I like to, I don't know, kind of push the limits of that.
Raymond: 47:33 Yeah. And you have found sometimes that when you go off and you shoot your own thing, that you get results, that you're happier with doing it. You're, Oh yeah. Big time, huh?
Martin Moore: 47:41 Especially, especially in video when I do that. Like we have one on a causes YouTube channel called I can't remember what it's called. It's a really good example of it, but it looks just like a Terrence Malick movie. And I, it's literally there. There ain't no rule of thirds and it is just everybody's like over here or over way over here and it's, there's just not, there's nothing symmetrical or even or about it. There's no math in any of the, any of the composition.
Raymond: 48:11 But I love it. That was great. That was great. You said you didn't know if it was what I was looking for, but I'm not looking for anything. I'm just curious about these things. That's always been great
Martin Moore: 48:23 Fun. Just learning, just hearing about everyone else's different point of view for how they, how they like to create, everyone creates so differently and that's, that's such a blessing. That's such a cool thing that everyone has so many different ways that they use and implement to kind of get to the same point, which is telling a story through an image or video.
Raymond: 48:47 I don't think I don't think that we could end this any better way than that statement right there for sure. Just go off on your own, explore, do your own thing and figure it out. Yes. And never tomorrow. Always today. Ah, well see, that's my guy. That's my next tattoo. That's my next tattoo. It's going to be never tomorrow. That's actually true. I'm getting that in a couple of weeks. Oh, that's perfect. I can't wait to see me. I want to shoot a photos. Go golden shoot. Shoot it today. Today, today. Oh man. Well, Martin I want to thank you for coming on and sharing everything that you did before I let you go. Can you let the listeners know where they can find you, your work, and keep up with you online?
Martin Moore: 49:25 If you just put Martin Moore in any social media platform, I'll be the first one that pops up. Weird flex. I know. But if for some reason Martin more the UK furniture company pops up, then put in Martin ward jr and I will pop up. But I hate the jr but I'm at Martin ward jr and everything, but if you just put in Martin bore, I should be the first one.
Raymond: 49:47 See you're working at cost headphones, but I would think that working at Martin Moore furniture would have a, I always hope that they fail to make their website payments so that I can scoop up to buy more.com. I want it so bad. I've said that often about that. Now. I'm kind of moving away from that, but a of just Hatfield's photography. My last name's Hatfield, I've always wanted to buy it, but the person who owns it is like, I don't, I don't want to say anything bad about them, but they're still very like they are, they are. They haven't touched the website in like 2000. Ooh. Yeah. Like it's been forever.
Martin Moore: 50:19 I'm trying to scoop up the Twitter handle because they've squatted on that since 2012 and yeah. Z
Raymond: 50:24 We need, it's like, I want to use it. Why can't I can, can I use it? Well again. Yeah. Let's make this happen. Five of these websites, Martin again, man, thank you so much for coming on and I appreciate it. Yep. Oh man. So much there. To unpack from Martin. I would say that my biggest takeaway was that if you really want something, just go get it. Essentially. I know that sounds cliche, but you know, don't let the camera that you have or don't have or the job that you have get in the way. Just start working on what it is that you love. And even though it may take a few years, if you keep working at it, you'll get it. So Martin thank you so much for coming on. It was great hearing your unique perspective and if you're listening and you want to give Martin a thanks or share your biggest takeaway, be sure to do that in the beginning of photography podcast, Facebook group.
Raymond: 51:22 I will add Martin and it's going to be a good time. So also some news that I teased in the beginning of the interview last month I hosted a photo business goal setting workshop just for premium members of the podcast and it was a smashing success. There are tons of great goals that were set by premium members for 2020 and I am so excited to be a part of and help those premium members achieve their goals. Well, in January I have decided that I'm going to be hosting another series that is called picture perfect pricing. And you may have heard me talk about this before and that is because this was previously a standalone course that's sold for $67 but now it is going to be free for premium members. So if you want to learn how to price your photography with confidence and remove just the guesswork and set yourself up for success in 2020 then I want to invite you to become a premium member today.
Raymond: 52:24 It's currently just $10 a month. You'll get access to full interviews where guests share their best tips on making money with their camera and you'll also get picture perfect pricing, which is a $67 value. Like I said, included, offered just $10 so become a premium member by heading over to beginner photography, podcast.com. Click that premium membership link at the top of the page to join now and I'll see you inside. So that is it. Fun, fun stuff. I keep saying that. Fun stuff. Where does this come from? Fun stuff. Anyway, that's it for this week. Until next week, I want you to make more. I want you to do more and I want you to make do with what you have, so that is it. Be safe.
Outro: 53:06 Thank you for listening to the beginner photography podcast. If you enjoy the show, consider leaving a review in iTunes, keep shooting, and we'll see you next week.