BPP 183: Hope Taylor - Perfecting The Senior Photography Experience
Hope Taylor is a Charleston SC senior portrait photographer who has build quite a following with her signature look and client experience. Today I’m looking forward to talking about client experience, posing and attracting clients!
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In This Episode You'll Learn:
What is Senior Photography
How hope got into photographing seniors
What Hope struggled with most behind the camera
Posing tips to help self-conscious teens feel comfortable and confident
How to manage your fall schedule when everyone wants photos
How Hope delivers her photos to her clients
How Hope makes her photos social ready to post
What gear Hope brings to a session
Premium Members Also Learn:
How to market to seniors
Handling the Senior and Parent Relationship
How to speak to a senior as an ideal client
And the Legalities of photographing and posing photos of minors online
What to do if a client doesn’t tag you in their photos they upload.
Resources:
Did you enjoy this episode? Check out more recent interviews with other great guests!
Full Episode Transcription:
Disclaimer: The transcript was transcribed electronically by Temi.com and may contain errors that do not reflect accurately what the speaker said. Because of this, please do not quote this automated transcript.
Raymond: 00:00 Welcome to the beginner photography podcast. Today we are talking about the perfect senior session, so let's get into it.
Intro: 00:10 Welcome to the beginner photography podcast, a weekly podcast for those who believe that moments matter most and that a beautiful photo is more than just a sum of its settings, a show for those who want to do more with the gear they have to take better photos today and now your host Raymond Hatfield.
Raymond: 00:28 Welcome to this week's episode of the beginner photography podcast. I am Raymond Hatfield and I am glad that you are here. We are going to have some fun today. We're going to learn some new things about photography. It's going to be a good time, but before we do, I just want to give a quick shout out to Danny and say thank you for leaving the podcast, a five star review in iTunes. Danny said, I highly recommend this podcast to anyone interested in photography. The Facebook group is full of other photographers willing to help and inform and this podcast is able to provide even experienced photographers with new and helpful information. Danny, thank you so much. I cannot tell you how much it means to me that you are enjoying the podcast and learning so much. So keep it up. And like Danny mentioned, the Facebook group is an incredible community of other photographers in various stages of their journey, but we all believe that being, we all believe in being helpful and not being toxic.
Raymond: 01:27 So if you're not a part, I invite you to join the group. Just search Facebook for beginner photography podcast group and you'll find it to Danny. Thanks again. All right. This week I chat with senior portrait photographer, hope Taylor who, I mean if you just take one look at her work, you will be stopped dead in your tracks. The photos are incredible. Today we talk about posing and lighting and making your senior feel confident during their session. And as always, I save a portion of the interview where we talk about business and making money with your camera just for premium members. So this week premium members are going to hear who hope markets too and deals with communication between the senior and the parent, how to speak to a senior as an ideal client. And communicate your value and the legalities of working in posting photos of teens online, which the hope has a fantastic a little blurb there which has helped to build her massive Instagram following.
Raymond: 02:32 So you don't want to miss that. So if you want to hear all the answers to these questions, you gotta become a premium member. So if you want to do so just head over to beginnerphotographypodcast.com and click the premium membership link up at the top of the page to join today where you're going to get full access to this interview and past interviews as well with other guests. Okay, so that is it. Let's go ahead and get on into this week's interview right now. Today's guest is hope Taylor, a senior portrait photographer from Charleston, South Carolina who has built quite a following with her signature look and client experience today. I'm looking forward to talking to hope about that client experience posing and attracting some clients. Hope. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Hope Taylor: 03:19 Thank you so much for having me. That was such a sweet introduction. I'm so excited to chat with you today.
Raymond: 03:25 It's, it's interesting, very recently I realized, well this is now episode where we're now into the one eighties, I believe. And I've never intro, I've never interviewed a, somebody who like specializes in senior photography and yet so many members of the beginning photography podcast, Facebook group, shoot seniors. I kind of felt like I owed them to to have somebody like you with your experience come on and talk to us about this world. But I don't, I don't know anything about, so before we get into that, before we talk about seniors outside of the U S as you, as I'm sure you know, senior photos aren't really like a very common thing. So for those who are listening, you know, and maybe the other side of the pond or in other parts of the world, can you share, can you give a description of what senior photography is?
Hope Taylor: 04:13 Absolutely. Well, first of all, I'm so excited to be the person to talk about senior photography. Obviously. I absolutely love it. It's been a huge part of my business since the very beginning. So senior portraits are essentially a high school senior wanting to capture memories of their senior year. So for me, I do about a two hour long senior experience where we're just capturing photos of them. They get to choose their outfits. And it's essentially to capture their personality, their style and kind of the memories of that season. Some senior photographers do the traditional like cap and gown, super formal photos. I'm not one that does those. I do more of a lifestyle senior experience versus those like formal stuffy cap and gown photos, which aren't necessarily bad. Just not necessarily what I do.
Raymond: 04:55 Ah, interesting. Already we're getting into like your own personal style and how you see everything, which is which is really exciting there. I, I actually never had senior photos done. Like when I was in high school, I didn't have senior photos done. I went to a very, very small high school and I really hated my whole high school experience. So it's just one of those things, you know, so I didn't want any sort of photos to, to, you know, remember it by, but now that I'm older, I look back and think of high school and my friends that I have and I do wish that I had those senior photos. So I love that you kinda tie in kind of how people are feeling and what it is that that they like to do as a senior. That's, that's super important stuff.
Hope Taylor: 05:34 Yes. Well, and see, I'm the same way. I didn't love my senior experience either. I actually was not a fan of high school as a whole. So the, I think the reason I love senior portraits so much is it takes girls and guys too that are maybe not having the best senior experience or maybe not having the most like self confidence or feeling the best about themselves and hopefully makes them feel really beautiful and confident for awhile at their session. So I think it's interesting you said that because I come from the same background of not high school, but I think that's actually what makes me love capturing that season. So it's kind of crazy how it comes full circle.
Raymond: 06:03 It is crazy. That is crazy. So I know reading about more about you online and doing my research to find out who you are. You know, your website has a lot of information about you and kind of how you got started in photography. And I think that it's kind of a I guess I would say untraditional. So since you started in high school, is that right? Yes. Yeah. So can you go ahead and give the listeners like the backstory of how you got started in photography and where it took you?
Hope Taylor: 06:32 Yeah, absolutely. So I will give the nutshell version, but ask me to expand on anything you want me to. So I began doing photography just as a fun side hobby when I was a sophomore in high school. So I would've been 16 and I took a photo journalism class just as an elective. I had to take an elective and I was like, this one sounds fun. And I also wanted a nice camera, but my family, my dad was military at the time. We did not have the extra finances to buy me a DSLR camera for no reason. But they didn't know that it was a prerequisite for the class to have a DSLR camera. And so I signed up, I know, surprise. So I signed up for the class and kind of like finagled my way into like having them help me buy a DSLR.
Hope Taylor: 07:12 So they bought me a super cheap used, you know, eBay, Canon [inaudible] or whatever it was. T3 I maybe and I took that class and I enjoyed it, but it kind of stopped there. I didn't really think anything else of it. As I went into my junior year, so I'm 17 at this point. I was working a part time job at a retail store. I don't know if any girls listening remember limited to turning into justice. That's where I worked. Just like the little girl's clothing store. And it was fun, but they had a lot of rules about like being under 18 you could only work four hour shifts. So I was very minimal how much I was able to make and it just felt like it was draining me and my camera had been sitting on the shelf for months at this point. And so my family members were like, why don't you just take it out just so you have a fun hobby and something to do to, you know, enjoy outside of this job that you're not loving.
Hope Taylor: 07:57 And so I did and I did pictures for a friend and their mom tipped me $50 on their way out and I went from making like seven 25. I know, right? It was like seven 25 an hour to $50 an hour. I was like, I'm a rolling in it. Like this is like my life is made. And I think that was the first time I realized like, Oh, this could be lucrative, this could be a job. Nobody had ever kind of put that thought in my mind that a creative passion or hobby can turn into a career. And so that was kind of the first time that light bulb went off for me. So from that moment on, I started hustling my booty off. I worked really, really hard my junior and senior year to build a business that was making me a decent income. Hope Taylor: 08:35 And so I, during my senior year, committed, or excuse me, applied to seven or eight different universities and I was determined that I was going to go for a business degree, but I was going to continue doing photography on the side. And as my business grew and I got closer and closer to going to school, I committed to the school that was closest to my house, but it was still about an eight hour round trip from home driving. And so long story short, I ended up revoking my admission a month before I was supposed to leave to go full time. And that was about five years ago. So I'm almost seven years deep as a full time photographer at this point.
Raymond: 09:08 Wow. Congratulations. That's amazing. Hope Taylor: 09:09 Well thank you. Thank you.
Raymond: 09:11 I kind of want to expand a little bit more there. I love the nutshell version. That was a great overview. But I find a lot of times when I speak with other photographers, I'm like, how'd you get your start? And they're like, well one day I picked up a camera, you know, yada yada. Now here I am as a professional photographer and there's a lot in that yada yada yada. So between that time when you, when your family was like, why don't you pick up the camera again and like use it as a hobby and you know, you got that first gig, you made that $50. So between that $50 and when you decided I'm not going to go to college, I'm going to pursue photography full time. What was, what was that experience like?
Hope Taylor: 09:50 So for me, I actually always knew that I would ideally want to be an entrepreneur. My mom made cakes the whole time I was growing up out of my home, so she kind of ran a bakery and she kind of showed me just the whole, you know, girl boss type of thing. And I was so inspired by the idea of working for myself. So I always knew in the back of my mind I wanted to do that. I loved business, I loved marketing. But it just didn't click for me that photography could be that outlet until that moment that I mentioned. And so that transition for me was really fun, but it was also really hard from an emotional standpoint. It was really rough in high school for you to be the one person that was like taking the different route or going in an opposite direction of everybody else.
Hope Taylor: 10:28 And I went to a pretty rough public high school. My class was like 500 people and it was definitely very much against the grain. Who does this girl think she is? Why does she think that she like can be so different? And so emotionally it was rough. But for me, I just like put my blinders on and was like, this is something I really love. And it honestly never was a thought to me that I would not go to college. That was never something I considered at all. I was actually very adamant that I was going to leave the small town I was in because again, I, nobody liked me in my high school. I didn't like my high school experience. I was like, why would I want to stay in this small town that I'm not enjoying? And so throughout this whole process of me applying to colleges while doing my business, my mom would kind of come up to me and say, hope, I hope you know that if you decide you want to stay home and go to community college, we will support that.
Hope Taylor: 11:15 And we actually got fights about it because it'd be like, mom, stop telling me that like, I'm not staying home. You want me to stay home, but I'm not doing it. Like stop bringing it up. It's not an option. And we would, I know, right? Like, mom, let me like, let me spread my wings and fly. But the reality was she just realized before I did that that might not be the direction my life was going. And so it was a very, it was a strange season. It was a scary season of just going out on a limb and trusting my gut, cause I woke up one morning and just decided I don't feel like this is the right path for me. So it was a, it was a crazy season of just going against what I thought my entire life was going to look like.
Raymond: 11:52 Wow. Yeah. That has gotta be so much when you're just 18. I remember back to when I was 18 and I was like, I was, I was dumb. Like I wasn't a smart, you know, like we're always like tasked to figure out what it is that we want to do with the rest of your life. And I feel like even, you know, I don't know, 25, I was like, I don't know what I'm doing with my life. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's interesting. So when you, when you first started you obviously took a photo journalism class, what did you think, what would you say was probably the what was it that you struggled with the most when it came to operating a camera?
Hope Taylor: 12:24 So honestly I think for me it was just understanding how the technical, like the typical technical pieces all works together. I am self-taught from a business and marketing perspective. I always say I feel like I'm naturally talented in business and marketing, but not naturally talented at photography. So the photography side of things was actually the harder part for me. So I think it was just figuring out how all the technical things works together and following certain set of photojournalistic rules, but then figuring out which ones it was okay to break and which ones it was okay to find a personal style that maybe didn't always meet the rule of thirds or you know, those technical rules they teach and classes like that. And so I think that was the hardest part for me was wanting to create things but feeling like I had to meet those rules in order to meet the requirements of the class. And then once I got out of that class, just deciding that I wanted to just go rogue and do whatever I wanted. And I mean I think I still probably now have come full circle and use a lot of those technical rules. But at the time I just wanted to like break outside of the box. My teacher was trying to put me in, I guess.
Raymond: 13:24 Was there ever a time where you were looking at your photos thinking like I just am not understanding this?
Hope Taylor: 13:31 Not that I remember. I think that I always shot on like auto mode obviously as you do when you're beginning. And so I think for me it was just getting frustrated with figuring out how all of the settings work together, you know, the apertures, the shutter speed, ISO, all of those things. Figuring out how they worked together to create photos. Like what I was seeing when I was working on auto. And so I think that was probably the most frustrating part for me. But honestly, the hardest part for me is editing. I struggled so much with getting consistent editing. So I think that was probably the thing that I got the most frustrated with.
Raymond: 14:01 Oh man. Did you have to do much editing in your photojournalism class?
Hope Taylor: 14:04 I did it in my class, but once I started working for clients and I, you know, you don't really know what to expect when you go from working in a photojournalism class to working with people. It's very different. And because in photojournalism we're taking pictures of like, you know, landscapes and still things. And so going into working with people who are like, hi, can you Photoshop 20 pounds off of me? Can you make my skin smoother and my teeth whiter? It was, it's very overwhelming to go from not thinking you have to do much editing to all of these crazy requests. And so that was, that was a struggle for me.
Raymond: 14:33 Wow. Okay. Okay. I love it. W was there any educational you know, Avenue? Did you go on YouTube to try to learn editing? Did you take a class? Was it a course?
Hope Taylor: 14:44 All of the free resources. I was like, give me all the YouTube, give me all the Google. I didn't attend like a workshop in our industry or anything like that until my senior year. So there was about a year where I was just doing so much research online and getting access to any YouTube videos I could, I feel like podcasts weren't a big thing, you know, five, six years ago. And so I was, or I didn't know about them. And so I was just all over YouTube watching all of these free tutorials. I had a editing software called, I think it was called portrait pro, where you would upload a picture and it would detect their face and then like smooth their face and brighten their eyes and all those things. And it was so tedious. I mean, it took me hours and hours and hours to edit just one group of pictures from a shoot. And looking back at that, it's just so funny because now I added light room and you know, just, you know, comes full circle. It's just been a process.
Raymond: 15:32 Yeah. Yeah. In minutes too. Right? Like you can do like a whole session in like under an hour. Yeah, exactly. What do you think the key to that is? Do you think it just more repetition?
Hope Taylor: 15:41 Yeah, I honestly say like when people ask me how I got to the point that I've perfected my style and like this is so cheesy and sounds unhelpful, but it truly is just practice makes perfect because when you're out there working in different lighting scenarios of different types of people with different types of personalities and then working in light room to perfect that editing style I truly just think it's repetition and finding, and I still sometimes go into scenarios where I'm like, this lighting is funky and I'm not used to it. Like, what do I do here? I actually just moved from Virginia to South Carolina and the greens in Charleston, South Carolina are so different than back home and Virginia. And so yes, even editing my work here compared to Virginia is so different. I mean, I think it's just a continual nonstop learning process.
Raymond: 16:22 Wow. That is so cool. That's so interesting to to think about. And something that I I wouldn't have thought about. That's interesting.
Hope Taylor: 16:29 It is super strange. The greens there in Virginia are just super bright, vibrant, like grassy greens. And then here it's like the Spanish Moss super muted, like filmy green. So it looks like I've changed how I'm editing, but I didn't, it's just different. It's very, it's very strange.
Raymond: 16:41 People think you're a brand new photographer.
Hope Taylor: 16:43 I know. I'm like surprised. I shouldn't film now. Just kidding.
Raymond: 16:47 So back to senior photography getting into that as somebody who didn't enjoy their senior experience why get into senior photography? And what about it? Is it that that you love so much?
Hope Taylor: 17:00 So I think for me it was honestly piece a part of it was just that it was a natural transition. All of my peers were seniors. I was working in a high school, so it was just natural for me to like be like, Hey, let's photograph, like, let's take pictures for fun with my friends. And, and that's kind of how I started practicing. And so then when all of my practice images that were in my portfolio were pictures of my peers, it just was a natural transition for seniors to reach out and say, Hey, like I saw you did my friend's pictures, can we work together? And so P a piece of it was that a piece of, it was also that I was looking for senior photographers at the time. So I followed a lot of senior photographers in my area and I loved their work and I was just so inspired by the photos I was seeing them create. And so I just loved the idea of it and I loved working with people who were my age, who I could really and connect to and take them out of a very season of life and make them just feel really, really beautiful and confident for a few hours.
Raymond: 17:54 Yeah. So tell me about the delivery then. Like, when you deliver those photos, what is there, what am I trying to say here? What you had just said, taking them out of that season of life and there's the stressful it is, it, is it, is it the delivery that is the pay off for you? Is it the shooting? Is it the experience for them?
Hope Taylor: 18:13 I think it's just working with them in person and just asking him about like, Hey, what are your college plans? What are you excited about? Where like what do you want to study? Why do you want to study that? And just like telling them how beautiful they are in front of my camera, showing them back to the camera pictures and them getting so excited. I just, I think it's just seeing their face light up and their confidence kind of slowly increase while I'm actually working with them in person. The delivery of the images is always fun to just hear their feedback. But I think for me, the part that I love is just working with them and getting, hang out with them and get to know them and make them feel seen and heard and loved for a little bit.
Raymond: 18:45 Yeah. Being, being genuinely, genuinely, I don't know why that was so hard to get out. Curious about, about the people in front of your camera. I get it. So one thing I remember from being a teenager is that I was very self conscious, you know, of the way that I look. And I know that that's very typical of teenagers you know, just being that self-conscious. So posing can be, you know, extra important when it comes to seniors. What are some posing basics that you have for when it comes to comes to working with seniors?
Hope Taylor: 19:17 Oh yeah. So one of the things that I actually do before I ever meet with my seniors on their shooting day is I send them a questionnaire which I actually have a free copy of for your listeners. But I, I'm sending that questionnaire and one of the most important questions I ask on that is, what is your favorite feature about yourself and your least favorite feature about yourself? And I pay really close attention to the answer to that question because some girls really, really love, I don't know their nose and some girls really are self conscious about their body, whereas some girls love their body but are super self conscious about the fact that their face is round. And it's really random things that I would not know looking at them obviously because I think they're beautiful, but it's things that they will see in every single photo if I don't take the time to make sure that I'm being cognizant of that.
Hope Taylor: 19:58 And so that's the biggest thing I always tell my senior photographers before the shoot ever starts. If you can get that information from your client and just be super hyper aware of that at your session it's going to help them to love their photos for each individual because each individual's going to be different. Obviously we all want to look skinny and beautiful. But it's going to be a little bit different for everyone when it comes to posing basics. A couple of things that I think are super helpful when it comes to seniors is that anytime I have a client put their hand on their hip instead of just telling them to put their hand on their natural hip where they would actually place it, which is a little bit lower than the smallest part of their waist, I have them bring your hand up a little higher than they naturally would to cinch in the actual smallest part of their waist.
Hope Taylor: 20:40 And I've done that with every single one of my clients for forever, and they almost always comment on that. Like, Oh my gosh, I didn't realize that when I put my hand on my, I was putting it on the widest part of my waist and not the smallest part. So that's a huge tip that I use with seniors all the time. I also am always shooting from slightly above, which I feel like is kind of a common tip. But I'm always either tippy toeing or standing on a curb or having my clients sit or kneel so that I can shoot from an angle slightly above them so that I can focus on their eyes and have their body be a little bit smaller, a little bit slimmer in the background. And then I also always shoot on a low averager, which is an opposing tip but does help to have their face be the focal point. I always want their face and their facial expression to be the focal point of their image. And so I'm shooting at a really low aperture between 2.0 and 2.2 to make sure that that's what's the focus of the image.
Raymond: 21:30 I love it. What are some of the differences in posing? First of all, let me go back to that posing of the, the hip putting your hand on the smallest part of the the waist. That is a, that's something so like easy, you know, that you wouldn't have even thought of it. That's, that's wonderful. So thank you for sharing that. Of course. When it comes to posing, like the difference between guys and girls, right? What are, what are some of the things that you focus on with, with either of them?
Hope Taylor: 21:56 So I, yeah. Oh, that makes total sense. So I don't photograph a ton of guys. I have probably photographed maybe 10 senior guys in my entire seven years because I just have a very girly business and girly brand and I just attract a lot of female senior clients. But when it comes to the guys I actually do a couple things different. When it comes to posing specifically that tip about shooting from above goes out the window because I don't want to shoot senior guys from above. I want to photograph them from head on because it helps their shoulders look a little broader, helps them look a little bit more masculine. And I'm also doing a lot of arms crossed and when I have them cross their arms, I have them make a fist and put their fist under their arms and that helps their arms look a little bit more like masculine and their biceps look bigger.
Hope Taylor: 22:36 So they like the way they look a lot better. And then just from an overall experience perspective, I actually offer a shorter 30 minute many senior experience for my guys. And I don't advertise that anywhere, but I think that my senior guy clients would kill me if I let their mom book for two hours and like four outfit changes because no senior guy wants that. That I, that I've met. And so I, I'm always offered that like smaller senior package as kind of like a, a gift to them of like, Hey, normally I don't offer this, but this is half the price and half the time. So that your son doesn't hate his life while he's getting his photos taken. And that's been super helpful in my business because then senior guys dread the session a little bit less.
Raymond: 23:17 That is so funny. I can, I can totally picture that too, but that kind of brings me into my next question. You kind of brought it up there. Talking to talking to the parents, talking to the seniors with senior photography. I know with with weddings, Oh bride will reach out to me a bride is the person paying, I photograph the bride I deliver to the bride with senior photography. Who typically contacts you? Is it the senior or is it the parent?
Mid Roll: 23:44 You are listening to the free version of the beginner photography podcast where each week you learn how world-class photographers see and capture the world around them. If you want to hear the extended interview with their best business tips to learn how to make money with your camera and then become a premium member today by heading over to beginner photography, podcast.com and click the premium membership button to join now.
Raymond: 24:07 Oh my gosh. That like mind blown right there. I've never heard anybody say it like from that perspective it always come from a place of like, you know, vulnerability on the, on the artist's side. Like you were saying earlier, but that makes so much more sense to let them have that conversation and just that's going to change a lot of senior photographers who are listening like their lives right there. Cause that is one of the biggest thing that comes up every time. Like what do I do if they don't tag me in stuff? I love that. Thank you for sharing that. When it comes to fall, let's talk about fall for a minute. Fall is always a very busy time for photographers, especially portrait photographers. Right. Do you find that most seniors also want fall photos? And if so, how do you manage your fall schedule?
Hope Taylor: 24:57 So this is a super interesting question for me right now because like I mentioned, I'm moving markets from Virginia to South Carolina and in Virginia it was absolutely everybody in their mom wanted fall photos because obviously the leaves get beautiful at the exact right time because they, right, we're on the East coast, you know, all the things. But I also am Virginia. People would sometimes want their photos in the summer beforehand because then they have their pictures before their senior year. So they were kind of getting their senior session done in the summer to kick off their senior year of like, Oh, this is like the prerequisite of being a high school senior. So I'd say summer and fall were the busiest for me there. Here in Charleston, the leaves aren't changing until like right now. And so the fall is popular here because the temperatures are better, but it has nothing to do with the fall foliage, which is super interesting to me.
Hope Taylor: 25:44 So I can tell already that there's going to be a shift there. But fall in Virginia was definitely absolute insanity because my weddings and my portraits were both obviously at the same, really high peak season. And so for me, I have a very strict boundary that I always maintain, whether I'm in the fall or any other season. And I only shoot two portrait sessions a week. I only photograph portraits on Tuesday and Thursday evenings. And I don't really change that ever. And so if I have an engagement session booked on a Thursday, I will only take one senior session that week on Tuesday, done and done. That's it. And I won't take any exceptions or additional bookings that week because I know for me that I just can't mentally handle that much editing and that much shooting and still maintain a social life.
Hope Taylor: 26:28 And I also know that when I'm in that place of I'm so overwhelmed, I'm so stressed, I'm not serving my other clients well. So the best way to just serve everybody well is to just have that hard boundary. And I do that throughout the entire year. So that means that my fault books up pretty quickly. It books up in advance because people are booking those dates and there's only a limited number to go around. But that boundary is just been so important for my mental sanity and for my, like quality of my client experience. And so I think it's something that it's super, super important.
Raymond: 26:58 Yeah, that's something that doesn't get talked about a lot. That's really interesting. I know that some listeners right now are thinking to themselves, she has to get a bunch of pushback on this. Do you ever get any pushback on, on your limited availability?
Hope Taylor: 27:11 I do. I, I've had the occasional senior who's like, Oh, I can only do it on a weekend. And I'm like, well, I'm really sorry but my weekends are reserved for my wedding clients. Here's a couple of other senior photographers that could work for you. And I think that it's taken me years to get to that place. Obviously turning away money, turning away clients is not an easy thing to do. But I actually, without going too far into like the mental health emotional side of things, I got really sick for a year period with autoimmune related issues that were stress induced and stress related. And it gave me a really quick perspective shift on what's really important and what's really valuable. And for me, my mental health and time with my family and having a social life are the most valuable and important things to me. And if that means I lose out on a senior session because I don't want to give up a free Sunday that I'm completely okay with that. And I think I always will be from here on out.
Raymond: 27:58 Yeah. You said that it took a few years to kind of get to that point. In the beginning you would just w w w would you just bend backwards to anybody's like requests of availability?
Hope Taylor: 28:08 Pretty much. I mean, I think at the beginning I was like, I need any and all things that come my way. And the reality of that is that I was 17 or 18 years old. I had no need for money. I wasn't paying any bills. I was living in my parents' house. There was no really need for additional finances. I just was like, give me all the things, like I can handle all of it and I can do all the things and be all the people. And so I took on all kinds of bookings, even like families and things that I just didn't enjoy photographing for the practice and for the portfolio images. And for the money. And it took me a long time and it probably honestly took me until two years ago where I had those health scares to just really sit back and be like, okay, what is that one extra shoot worth to me? Weighing against what my social life with my family and my time off and my mental sanity is worth. And I think that the bladder is just always gonna win on that one.
Raymond: 28:57 Yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. But it just getting to that point of being confident in your abilities and being okay to just say like, you know what? I'm going to, my personal health is more important than, you know, an extra $300 this week.
Hope Taylor: 29:12 Yeah. Well, and even the time off is more important I think to that raising your prices to a point where you can have that margin. And you know, those two shoots a week are gonna pay you what maybe five shoots would have paid you in the past. I'm getting to that point of just knowing my time is valuable because that's time away from the people that I love in my own personal life and all of those things. And I'm pricing yourself accordingly. To be able to have that margin is also a super important piece of that puzzle.
Raymond: 29:37 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So let's talk, let's, let's move on past the the shoot and no, you know what, I have one more question about the shoe. When, when I knew that I was having you on, I reached out to Carrie who's in the beginning photography podcast, Facebook group because I know that she shooed seniors and right now, and she's feeling, she's feeling that overwhelmed. She said that she is feeling burnt out creatively. But the one question that she, she actually had a bunch of questions from me, but the one question right here for you is how did you, when she said, do you, do you take photos of whomever the senior comes with like a parent or a sibling or a boyfriend or a girlfriend just to get that one or two photos. And then do you try to sell those photos or do you just say, Nope, senior only got to back off?
Hope Taylor: 30:25 Oh, this is such a good question. So I actually have a policy in place for this, so I'm in that senior style guide that I send. And I think on my website too, it also States this did, they can bring one person with them for the last 30 minutes of their session. So if they want their boyfriend to come meet us or their mom or their sister or the best friend or whoever, they can come meet us for the last 30 minutes and we'll get some pictures with that person. And I just include those in the gallery and I have had people that are like, okay, can my one person be like my whole family of five? And I do, I do it. Yeah, I know. And sometimes I'm like, actually no, the answer's no, but I end up, I just do it because I view it as that under promise and over deliver concept of I'm just going to go above and beyond and do it even though technically it's not allowed.
Hope Taylor: 31:07 I'm just going to do it. If they tried to bring like 17 friends, obviously I'd be like, no, absolutely not. But I also tried to take the time that if mom brought her to the shoot, even if mom is not photo ready, like hair and makeup outfit wise, I asked her to step in just for a few and I tell her I'm not going to post these anywhere. I just think you love them for the memories. Because my senior photographer did that with my mom and I and it was, it's some of my favorite images of my mom and I. And so I always try to take the time to just over-deliver and take that extra step to be like, Hey, just hop in for a few photos. And it literally takes less than a minute to just snap like two or three and I'll put them in the gallery. But if they want to plan to bring somebody, that's something that they tell me on their questionnaire and then we coordinate having them meet us for the last 30 minutes and they hop in for a few photos.
Raymond: 31:47 Gotcha. That's, so that's such a great mindset. Again, you know, just just trying to give that best experience possible. Best experience. So as, as after you've been doing this for a while, you kind of understand that a photography is more than just the experience of the shoot itself, but also extends to delivering the photo. So when it comes to delivering your photos, what is your delivery workflow? Do you just, do you do anything special like you know, square crops for Instagram, smaller resolution for social and then do you just send a Dropbox Dropbox link or, or, or how do you deliver your photos?
Hope Taylor: 32:24 So I deliver them in an online gallery. I use a program called cloud spot. I'm a huge cloud spot fan. I absolutely love them. And so I upload my images in a cloud spot and deliver them through an online gallery service so they can download, share and print all their files straight from that online. I can set up catalogs on the back end of print and product options that they can shop as well as prices. And those are self-fulfilled so I get the income, the extra income, but they're self fulfilled through whichever printer I choose. Which is kind of an awesome way to set that up. And then I don't do anything special as far as cropping or anything goes. The only other special thing that I do is that I have a blog post of their senior images. And I don't have a spokesmodel team this year. Spokesmodels are a whole other topic we can touch on. But when I have spokesmodels only my spokesmodels get a blog posts that's part of being on a spokesmodel team is that they get a blog feature of their session because I don't have a spokesmodel team this year. I blog everybody's senior session because I'm taking a very limited number. So they get a blog post the same week. They get their gallery delivered to them.
Raymond: 33:24 Okay. So do you do any sort of like watermarking for your photos?
Hope Taylor: 33:28 I don't. I, they are paying for that online gallery. It's included in their full package. So I don't do any type of watermarking even on the sneak peaks. I'm a huge believer that if somebody wants to steal my photo they can easily crop or edit out the logo. So I'd rather people seeing my image get the full effect without my name plastered across it and get that really beautiful first impression of the image without a watermark on it. Because I just believe that if somebody wants to take it, they could and I probably putting a logo on there isn't really going to stop them. So that's just my thought process on watermarks, but I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I just don't personally use them.
Raymond: 34:01 I I have the, I have the same view when it comes to watermarks which is very it's, it can be a hard lesson to learn. You know, when you, when you first got started I think you said earlier that did, you did have a watermark on your photos and when people would post them, they would like crop them out and stuff like that. Yep. So what was it, was there something about that, that you're like, that, that, that made you change your view on watermarks?
Hope Taylor: 34:25 I don't remember a specific moment where I changed my mind. I, whenever I would watermark my pictures, I think there was like a very short period of a couple of weeks where I put it actually on the photo, but then I started just putting it in the white border below the photo. And that was like super easy to crop out. I mean, there was kind of no point in it except like, Hey, this person took this. And I just started to realize that as social media grew and trends changed, it was a much better impression on my followers and my potential clients to just see the image as it is without my name on it. And that was going to increase bookings if my images had a good first impression versus the first thing they seeing being like, Oh look who made this not, Oh, look how pretty it is.
Raymond: 35:02 Right, right, right. Yeah. I had something to say there again about the watermarks, but I lost it. But I think, I think that we pretty much covered everything there about watermarks. Oh. So let's let's, let's talk about, kind of a last question here kind of about your style of photography. Because as I mentioned earlier, you do have a very distinct style. You know, you look at your photos and it is that, that joyous, that fun, that free, that very warm feeling to your photos. That is those fun makes me want to have a senior session, you know, 13 years later I suppose. But tell me a little bit about shooting outdoors for you. Right. So it's shooting outdoors. What is your shooting style like? Is it just you and a camera? Do you bring a flash? Do you bring reflectors? Like how much is involved in the actual photography?
Hope Taylor: 35:56 Yeah. Well, thank you. First of all, that was very sweet description of my photos. I do just me in the camera and occasionally a white reflector. Those are the only things I bring with me. And I have a very light camera backpack that I carry that has my stuff in it. I'm using a white reflector for any shots that are waist up just to bounce that really clean light back onto my clients. I don't use a gold or silver, I'm just white because I just want that to fill any harsh shadows on your face, kind of smooth their skin and make their eyes pop. But other than that, it's just me in the camera. And I am always talking to my clients. They're never in front of my camera for more than two seconds where I'm not giving them an instruction or a praise. And so I probably annoy the living crud out of some of them because I am like, Oh my gosh, you're so beautiful, girl. You look so good. Like, Oh my goodness. And I never stopped talking, but it makes them feel super comfortable and confidence. So but yeah, all I'm bringing with me are my camera up, my 50 millimeter 1.4 is my most popular lens I'm using for seniors and then my white reflector
Raymond: 36:52 [Inaudible] [inaudible]. And so as somebody who, who obviously goes out who shoots quite a bit of seniors and even educates other photographers on how to shoot seniors, I'd be willing to bet than you seen a lot of amateur senior photography. I have. Yes. What are some of those signs that when you look at a photo you think to yourself like, this is, this is definitely an amateur here. What, what is that?
Hope Taylor: 37:17 Oh, this is such an interesting question. I'm trying to think. I would just say, I can just kind of tell if like focus is a little off or if the aperture was either like really, really wide or really narrow. It took me over the long time to find that sweet spot of like, Oh, her eyes are in focus, but the rest of it looks so creamy. I think that's like almost everybody's goal with senior photos is to have, they're really pretty crisp like skin and eyes and really like pretty dreamy background and it takes awhile to find that sweet spot of the aperture number for you. And I think that that's one of the biggest things I can see. And then also just really stiff posing. Like if I can just tell that you weren't really talking to your client and kind of asking them to pose on their own or like giving really minimal instruction, I can kind of see that come through in a photo just because I have such an involved posing style. So really, really stiff types of poses is another, another thing I see a lot.
Raymond: 38:04 I love it. I love it. That's it. It's so weird how you can see those things, right? Like how you can, it's almost like you can see the interaction that they were having with somebody through a still photo. It's very strange to be a photographer. It's very cool. Very cool.
Hope Taylor: 38:19 It is. No, you're exactly right.
Raymond: 38:20 Yeah. And when it comes to you know, obviously you have had quite a few years of shooting now, we all didn't start off at this place to where we are like rock solid, good to go, show up any situation, confident that you can grab the, you know, the photos that you need. Have you ever had an embarrassing moment on the job with a senior you know, that you'd, that you'd be willing to share?
Hope Taylor: 38:44 Oh, absolutely. I've had quite a few. I'm trying to think. The first two that come to mind aren't even really related to delivering photos, but there was one, I was shooting in Washington, D C for the cherry blossoms and I was backing up just to get a wider shot and didn't see that there was a construction hole happening behind me and I just fell into the hole in the middle of shooting. Like literally waist Steve, like one of my legs went waist-deep and the other one just like crumbled beneath. He's very entertaining. And then I also hold on stop. What did you do?
Hope Taylor: 39:17 Thankfully it was somebody that was like a mutual friend slash. Acquaintance. So I was just like, Oh, nice, great. So glad that just happened and I just like jumped up and we laughed it off. But the other one I think of is we were shooting in the river and I was barefoot and I stepped into the water and sliced and I foot on it like a beer can. And the mom like was just super challenged. She was like, Oh, you're fine, you're fine. And I like was like, Oh yeah, I'm good, I'm good. I'm good. And I just tried to keep going cause I'm just like such an anxious person. I was like, I don't want them to stress that like I'm not okay. So I just kept going and then I need, my foot was bleeding so bad, like I was just standing in a puddle of blood within like 30 seconds.
Hope Taylor: 39:52 And so then I was like, okay, maybe I'm not good. Like I'm just going to take a second. And I like, like tried to get a paper towel. I'm like, wrap it up and Oh my gosh, it hurts so bad. And I ended up being fine. But it was just this awkward moment of the mom being like, I think you're fine. And I'm like, woman, I'm standing in a pile of blood. Like I don't think I'm fine. So it was just, it was hilarious. I look back on it and laugh, but those were the two things that pop into my mind, which doesn't even have anything to do with delivering photos. Just me being,
Raymond: 40:15 Yeah, it never does. It never does have anything to do with do with delivering those photos. Yeah, no, I get that. I get that. Oh my gosh, that's a horrible, I'm trying to think what I would do and that's, I mean obviously I probably wouldn't be shooting weddings like in a, in like a little little river area, but yeah, if I were to hurt, I guess I've never really hurt myself that caused any sort of like, you know, blood or, or, or
Hope Taylor: 40:37 I know that was the first for me and hopefully the last, I know. Right. And I also just remembered I got pulled over between locations at a shoot one time too. My client was following me and I got pulled over for going the wrong way on a runway. That was, yeah, that was fun.
Raymond: 40:52 W Oh my gosh. Geez. Well, we should, we should have you back so that we can have another episode of just like embarrassing photography mistakes that we've made and we'll all share some,
Hope Taylor: 41:01 Oh yeah. I have lots. I'd be a, a, a key player in that I've got many to share.
Raymond: 41:07 Oh, that is so funny. That is so funny. Well hope. I got to say thank you so much for coming on and Sharon, everything that you did today. I know that there's a lot of people listening who got a ton of value out of this episode and kind of opened up their eyes to this whole crazy world of of senior photography. Before I let you go, can you let the listeners know where they can find you online and just follow along with your journey?
Hope Taylor: 41:34 Absolutely. So I'm hope Taylor photography on Instagram is probably the best way to just keep up with my business and my life. I share lots of personal stuff on there too. And then I've mentioned by senior questionnaire a few times in this interview and I'm actually gonna give you guys a free copy so you have the link to that. I believe in the show notes below. So you can get access to that. If you want a free copy of the exact questions I asked my senior clients before their shoot and hope Taylor blog.com has a ton of other free resources and information and YouTube videos that I offer related to senior photography too.
Raymond: 42:04 Perfect. Again, hope. Thank you so much. I will of course add links in the show notes of anywhere and everywhere to find you. And again, thank you so much. I look forward to keeping up with you and I hope that we can share more embarrassing stories on a, on Instagram.
Hope Taylor: 42:17 Absolutely. I love it. Thank you so much for having me.
Raymond: 42:20 How about that man? I have I don't really photograph seniors. I don't really know a lot of seniors that don't. It's just not my thing. It just doesn't seem my thing. But after hearing hope, talk about it and how she approaches it, I can tell that it's her thing and she does a great job at it. And and that's why, you know, often I talk about playing to your strengths and if you know, a lot of people say that there's a lot of money in seniors, but if you don't, you know, feel passionate about that, I don't encourage you to pursue something. You know, that you're not, that you don't enjoy that you're not passionate about, but hope is in I'm just so excited for her and I could hear it in her voice. One of my biggest takeaways from this episode was just how much further hope goes for her clients as she was saying, seniors are self conscious about their appearance and, and, you know, really doing everything she can to to maximize what the seniors like and minimize what they don't like about themselves.
Raymond: 43:23 And that just, you know, a little something extra that she does on top of worrying about everything else. Like lighting and color and technical settings while shooting. So, you know, as I said, you can tell that she's passionate about it and you can tell that she loves what it is that she does. So hope if you are listening, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing everything that you did. I had a blast chatting with you. We'll have to do it again. All right. That is it for this week's episode of the podcast. Until next week, I want you to go out. I want you to make more, want you to do more, and I want you to make more with the gear that you got. So until next week, stay safe.
Outro: 44:05 Thank you for listening to the beginner photography podcast. If you enjoy the show, consider leaving a review in iTunes, keep shooting, and we'll see you next week.