Gustavo Fernandez and a Corporate event photographer in San Francisco who started photography after leaving his job as a pharmaceutical rep. Having studied photography under world class wedding photographer Bambi Cantrel and Gustavo got into weddings for a number of years before discovering Corporate event photography. Today he shares why he made the switch and how hes able to make more money working less weekends.
In This Episode You'll Learn:
Why Gustavo felt so passionate about photography to leave his pharmaceutical rep job of more than 10 years to pick up a camera.
How Gustavo organically discovered corporate event photography and how its similar to wedding photography
How to overdeliver to your multinational publicly traded client
How Gustavo turned $10 into $10,000
Premium Members Also Learn:
How to price for business to business events
How to use your website to book the job every time
Why Corporate events are a better business than weddings
Resources:
San Francisco Corporate Event Photographer Gustavo Fernandez website
Did you enjoy this episode? Check out more recent interviews with other great guests!
Full Episode Transcription:
Disclaimer: The transcript was transcribed electronically by Temi.com and may contain errors that do not reflect accurately what the speaker said. Because of this, please do not quote this automated transcript.
Raymond Hatfield: 00:00 You know, you were a pharmaceutical rep for 10 years before changing careers and then moving into photography. I'm really interested about that because, you know, what was it about photography that got you interested in the first place to start to explore it and then eventually think, Oh, this is a sustainable enough that maybe I can leave my career.
Gustavo Fernandez: 00:23 Right. Yeah. Great question. And first of all, Raymond, thank you for having me on gosh, you know, it's probably one of those, you know, that you link back to sitting in your grandma's chair and, and looking at all her national geographic right back when I was a little kid and always fell in love with all that imagery and photography overall I was, you know, I'm born and raised in the Dominican Republic. My family traveled a lot. My dad was in international business. So, you know, one of the, one of the things that after college I want to do is continue traveling. And what happened then was like, while I gotta start documented this, and that's when I picked up a camera and started taking photos and, you know, as a hobby and then as you know, fast forward many years and you know, the blog started in photography and the wedding industry and, and WPPI, and kind of went down that rabbit hole and, and sort of fell in love with that community and kind of what they were creating. And that's kind of how I, you know, made the jump. I, I ran into Bambi Cantrell is one of the top 10 wedding photographers. You know, that first issue of American photo that listened to those top 10 opened the magazine. And I was like, wait, who's this Bambi Cantrell lady she's in pleasant Hill. That's where I live, you know, Oh, I need to sign up for her workshop. And funny enough the assistant for that workshop was a Jerry Ghionis
Raymond Hatfield: 01:41 Oh, of course. Yeah. Past guests of the podcast. Wow, exactly. Seeing where he's, where he's been able to take his wedding business
Gustavo Fernandez: 01:49 Clean. Jim garner was also there. Who's an amazing photographer out of Seattle. So I got to meet them. I got to network with them. I got to then experience WPPI and kind of, you know, build it from there. So yeah, it's been a fun journey.
Raymond Hatfield: 02:02 So what was it? So obviously, as you said I guess you didn't say this, but growing up, you didn't really, you know, grow up with a camera in your hand per se. It wasn't until after you got into college or after you graduated that you thought maybe I should pick up a camera just to document what's going on here. Is that right?
Gustavo Fernandez: 02:21 Correct. Yeah. I was doing a lot of you know, hiking slash mountaineering type trips going up mountain. It was like, Oh, these are really cool photos. I should be capturing all these experiences and yeah. Picked up the Canon film rebel.
Raymond Hatfield: 02:35 Oh, okay. That was the first, my first camera. So these you, weren't looking to just take snapshots. It wasn't something you were really looking to take the best photos that you could at the time. Exactly. Yeah. Take the best photos and just capture the experience that bring it back to share with family and friends. That's, that's what it's all about. In those early days, when you bought that film rebel since haven't go learn photography at that point, what would you say was something that maybe you struggled with most to, to grasp in the, in, in terms of photography?
Gustavo Fernandez: 03:09 Gosh, that's a great question. You know, I think the number one thing, a lot of people struggle with is that balance, right? What is that balance? It's only those three things. It's like the ISO, you know, the exposure and the aperture. So it's like, how do you make that? How does that click? And it took quite a while and I did take some classes. I took some beginner classes, like local camera clubs, joined a couple of those and just practice, practice, practice until it clicked in my mind, I was like, Oh, that's how you balance all these three numbers. And literally, like, after you figure that out, like everything is just, you know, a lot easier from there. But I would say that was one of the number one challenges was figuring out how do I get what I have in my mind, you know, to show up on the, on the camera, especially when it's filmed.
Raymond Hatfield: 03:57 Yeah, of course. And you have that long delay between the time where you press the shutter and you actually see the photo. Was there actually like a moment that it all clicked or was it in, I'm always interested in this because oftentimes, you know, you hear of those who think like, Oh no, this literally just clicked. I literally just figured out how this works right now. And then there's others who looking back is when they realize, Oh, actually I kinda, I kind of do know this whole photography thing. Was it wasn't like that for you?
Gustavo Fernandez: 04:25 Yeah. There's an exercise that our, our teacher did. And I think it's a very standard exercise where you take a photo of a white piece of paper and you underexpose a you know, straight on exposing and overexpose it. And then you do the same thing with a, like a black piece of paper or a great piece of paper, or even just a piece of concrete. And then you look at those images I'll go for it. You have to develop, develop those back in the day, but now you can use, you can do that, you know, five minutes. So I think that's where it clicked. It's like, Oh, this is what the camera is trying to do. So then you learn what the camera is doing and then you can correct for the camera. So that simple step of taking a photo of a white piece of paper, underexposing exposing it correctly. And then overexposing it. And then doing it with same with the dark is, is I think it's eyeopening that helps you figure out what what's behind the camera and what, what the camera is thinking. So you can overcompensate for it.
Raymond Hatfield: 05:21 Of course, of course. So you took that course with Bambi Cantrell, you learned wedding photography from her. What was that next step for you before you left the pharmaceutics
Gustavo Fernandez: 05:34 Rep world? Sure. A next step. Gosh, great question. Got a job, you know, started looking at opportunities like where could I learn the most? Of course I started assisting her, which was an immense opportunity. She drove drug me per se to she's like, you have to go to WPPI, you have to kind of come learn from best. So, you know, that was definitely my number one kind of eye opening experiences. When you see people from all over the world you know, teaching and you're learning from them and you see these people that are actually doing this full time, it's like, Oh, wow, this is a possibility. And then actually, who was it? It was Jose Vila and Joe Musick, they were doing a on the road serious with I think it was a photo plus or one of those groups.
Gustavo Fernandez: 06:28 And I got to sit in with them and, you know, just 10 other people in a room and just be inspired by their journey. But what were the next step is just continuing my education, continuing to build my network, continuing, you know, to help others out, to figure out like, how can I be a resource? I ended up volunteering at WPPI print competition, which Bambi was very involved with. And I got to meet, you know, most of the speakers that way, which was a great experience and got to learn what, you know, what does great imagery look like and got to listen to them for two days, you know, going over you know, some of these masterful images and why they're great images, why they're not create images and learn from the behind the scenes, you know, after that it was, you know, getting a job within the industry.
Gustavo Fernandez: 07:11 So worked for a studio manager, a commercial studio, a photographer in San Francisco. So learning the ropes from him, learning to kind of deal with clients because that's, that's an even different world, right? That's a lot of, a lot of you know, managing the client, teaching the client expectations, hiring laurels, you know, kind of the gamut. So there are tons to learn that way. So just slowly educated myself, working with others, second shooting from Bambi, actually in second shooting for, I ended up second shooting with a gal for many years after that. So trying to find opportunities to just, you know, help and at the same time, learn from other people.
Raymond Hatfield: 07:54 So having done this for a few years, going to weddings, knowing what it's like shooting learning from some of the best, you know, going to these conferences that are specifically geared around weddings, like WPPI, when did corporate events for you come on the radar and what was it about them that interested you?
Gustavo Fernandez: 08:14 Sure. Yeah. So, you know, basically I started with weddings and portraits, which either is kind of like that WPPI world sort of, you kind of get initialized into per se. And I guess that was my, my journey and how I got introduced to the corporate event world was, you know, given I come back from a corporate environment, you know, I was doing a lot of work for different hotels and a diff I was, I was being added to different preferred vendor lists. Preferred vendor lists is when a hotel or a venue adds you to a list of recommended vendors. That for example, a client comes in and is like, Hey, we need a photographer. Who do you recommend? It don't have two or three on that list? I was fortunate enough to get on some of these lists. And one of my main hotels, which was the Fairmont hotel in San Francisco had added me to their list.
Gustavo Fernandez: 09:01 And they kept asking me specifically like, Hey, we got this corporate thing. Would you be able to do this also? And I think the reason lesbian, you know, I got added to the, you know, one being a professional showing up on time, you know, being helpful to the hotel, being a resource, kind of help them out with photos or headshots over their team. And just, just being there and just, you know, being a, an ally per se or a somebody that you know, they can call for help. I think when you look at the corporate business, like what does a corporate event planner need? You know, somebody who's going to show up on time, somebody who's going to be well-dressed and going to be able to talk to my, my people, my attendee, somebody is going to be, you know, sort of incognito and not disturb the whole meeting and somebody that you know, I can communicate easily with. So given, I guess I already had a lot of those traits because I came from a business background and sales specifically, and, you know, I'm able to, you know, hang out with the CEO of the company or, you know, just as admin, you know, easy enough. So I think they kind of saw that in me as like, Oh, here's somebody that we can refer without an issue, and our clients are gonna love him.
Raymond Hatfield: 10:13 So when was it that you thought you did that first gig say you went to it, you shot it. Did you immediately think to yourself, Oh, I'm done with weddings and I'm going all in, on these, on these corporate events.
Gustavo Fernandez: 10:24 Not at all. I mean, it, it took me quite a while and I think it's only been two, three years that I've sort of, it's probably a little longer now that I've pretty much sorta strictly been, you know, corporate events and hand shots, but you know, it took a while for me to click, you know, I'm not saying I don't love the weddings. Weddings are just a different beast you know, for a wedding. It's interesting. You know, it started to click slowly when I realized like, wait a second, every year, I need to find 30 to 40 new clients depends on what type of business you're running every year. You gotta make sure that all your preferred vendors are happy that you're delivering images to them every year. You're got to make sure you're taking care of those independent wedding planners, which we all want to get those high end weddings.
Gustavo Fernandez: 11:09 So you have to kind of schmooze with them, send them gifts and whatnot. You have to be published. You got to get on the right blogs. You got to get in the right magazines. It just never ends. You have to go out, you know, be network, be seen not to be forgotten. So I noticed that the event, the wedding industry is extremely heavy on the marketing side and how much you have to put out to get those, you know, 30 to 40 weddings. Whereas a corporate event, I quickly figured out. I was like, wait a second. Once they have your name, once they love your work, they're just going to call you every year when they come back to town or for every job they do every month. And once that click, I was like, wait a second. I'm going to double down on this.
Gustavo Fernandez: 11:52 Like why, first of all, it's a recurring, recurring business model. I don't have to go find 30 to 40 new clients every year. I can keep my JP Morgan every year who I shoot three to four to five events a year. I can shoot those five to 10 events for Forbes every year. Like, they're not going to call anybody else. They're not seeking, you know, some other photographer to change it up for them. It's a it's business, right? It's like, boom, we got the lighting, we've got the photographer. We always used like next. I recently got an inquiry the other day, which, which kind of reminded me of, of the beauty of this, this sort of a business model and what it was was like, Hey, our photographer just retired. We need our new photographer. I was like, perfect. Now I'll be doing those events and those headshots for them until I retire per se. So, and that's kind of the thought process. Like you do a great job, you keep them happy and they're just going to keep calling you every year. And then you can count on that business yearly. And instead of having to kill yourself with the whole, all the marketing and whatnot.
Raymond Hatfield: 12:57 Yeah, yeah, of course. So I'm interested in, in the fact that, you know, when you shoot a wedding and you have that experience shooting weddings there's really only two people who you need to, you know, focus on at a wedding and you already know kind of all the events that are going to happen with corporate events. What is it that you're expected to deliver and who specifically is your client, is the CEO of JP Morgan calling you up?
Gustavo Fernandez: 13:26 Right. A great question to start off with who is the client? The client is typically either the director of events for that company or the director of marketing, or a lot of times it could be the CEO's chief of staff. So that's actually one of the challenges, depending on the size of the company too, as one of the challenges of finding who is that, that person that's actually running events for JP Morgan is the director of events for JP Morgan. So she is, you know, sits on top of the whole team. She has about, I want to say 10 to 15 people under her that run different events around the globe for her. So she was one of the first ones that reached out because she came to a small venue that I'm on the preferred vendor lists for, or she was running a small event for the CEO and I was on that list and I got called up and she was there.
Gustavo Fernandez: 14:15 So but for example, you know, when you look at Forbes, who's running the events again, they have a team of about 10 people that run different events for their, for the magazine that they're doing, kind of all over all over the world. Also the Forbes 30, under 30, the Forbes ag tech summit at Ford CIO summit. So, and then you have, for example, some holiday parties that I do a lot of at the end of the year. And that's a lot of times it's depending on the company. So San Francisco, a lot of tech companies so for example, the, you know, the admin of that is the one calling me up. Cause she's the one in charge of like, okay, I'm going to get the venue. I'm going to do this. A lot of times she'll hire an event planner or she'll hire a catering company that has event planning services attached to it. And then that catering company might reach out to me or she might, you know, and I'll be referred that way. So it's, it's a challenge figuring that person out most of the time, it's that director of marketing or that director of events or that admin for the CEO or that chief of staff
Raymond Hatfield: 15:21 When it comes to these big companies that have these titles, you know, as you said, this woman had 15 people under her whose job it is to plan these events. Why do you think you might not have the answer to this? I don't know, but why do you think that these companies don't just have an in house photographer who travels with them to these events and instead they hire locally?
Gustavo Fernandez: 15:40 Yeah, that's a great point. I mean, it's a challenge to have an in house photographer because they're going so many places. I mean, you know, for example, you know, I was flying or it's probably cheaper for them to fly me around than to have somebody full time staff, because think about what this full time staff me full time staff means. You've got to pay for healthcare. You know, you've got to pay for all their trips and travel and whatnot. And your, your, your salary, that's a salary. That's a full year salary versus think about it. If I'm only doing, you know, if they're only doing five events a year around the globe, that's only five times or fly me around, you know, it's way cheaper than having a full time photographer on staff. There are companies that do have a full time photographer on staff, for example, Liberty mutual, who I've done a few events for. They have a full time photographer, but in Boston, at their main home office. So he's the person that I'll do a lot of the headshots. He's a person to do a lot of the local events or maybe some regional events, but when it comes to a little bit of travel, you know, that's when they'll reach out to other vendors.
Raymond Hatfield: 16:43 I gotcha. That makes sense. It all just comes down to money. I'll just come down to money. Yeah, exactly. So in your own words, you know, what would you say is the, is the job description for a corporate event photographer? What are you expected as far as the photos to deliver?
Gustavo Fernandez: 17:01 Sure. That's a great question because, you know, I think wedding photography was one of the best trainings for that. Why? Because, you know, it's, it's sort of, we have to bring in, you know, as wedding photographers, we always want to get published. We always are going to be featured in different magazines or publications or whatnot. So we're always taking photos of everything, right? Like take photos of the flowers, take us over to the table setups or the menu takes photos of the lighting for the lighting person or for the lighting tech. You know, it takes photos of the desserts for that dessert person or the cake person. So the weddings was a great training because it trained me to make sure that you're capturing all the different details of the event. And that's still exactly what I do. You know, I come into sure. It's a lot more simple setup, a little more boring per se.
Gustavo Fernandez: 17:50 Right? Most of the time it's just a, you know, very nice, well set up stage with very nice lighting. So that makes it super easy. But then the challenge is like, okay, how can I, you know, deliver images of different angles, different setups, you know, looking at their websites, like how are they using these images? You know, making sure that you're educated before you even show up to the event and talking to the clients like, Hey, how are you going to be using these images? Do you need a specific, you know, do you like more horizontal do like more verticals? Like, Oh no, we like all verticals because we use them in this magazine per se. So that's definitely, you know, having that conversation beforehand, but typically, you know, nowadays I just have a shot list in my mind. Right. It's like, cool.
Gustavo Fernandez: 18:34 I got the big wide setup of the whole venue of what it all looks like before they all walk in. I got some tight shots of the stage. I have some nice tight shots of the podium, you know, for me, why am I doing this? And, and it's what everybody should be thinking about is if I was out event planner and I'm bringing a brand new team to build this event next year, and I'm going to go to a different hotel and set this up for a different venue, you know, what would I like to have in my packet? And it's like, Oh, Hey, where's that shot of the podium? Where's that Sean of the stage? How was that set up? How did we set up the desert station? How did we set up that break? You know, where did we set that up?
Gustavo Fernandez: 19:18 Where did you stop and do that headshot station? Okay, perfect. We need this much space for that. So it was like, you know, providing that imagery that can help your client out in the long run for the future. So I think I over deliver a little bit when I take random images. When you think as a photographer, like, Oh, why did you take photos of those counters in that corner? I was like, well, that's their, that's their meeting set up? That's their charging station for their cell phones. You know, that's the thing that they're providing to make sure that all the attendees are happy. So, so typically what I deliver is a little bit, everything, mostly of course, you know, maybe 10% of the images are just different scene setters showing up, you know, what they did to set up for the whole crowd, a lot of their branding, because branding might change over the years.
Gustavo Fernandez: 20:03 They want to have that historical in a representation of that. So you kind of make sure to capture that and then of course stage. So there's a lot of people typically speaking on stage. So it's a lot of different angles of that imagery from the closeups to, from the background through showing that there's an audience to that speaker, but then also the brakes, you know, showing the engagement between the different attendees, you know, showing them interacting, showing them, having a good time, showing them smiling. So it's, it's all encompassing just like a wedding. It's just, you know, it's but it's just a little, little bit different flow when it comes to, I'm interested with how many photos you're explaining that you're taking there's a lot there. And I know that at a wedding, as you said, you still try to a lot of those
Raymond Hatfield: 20:48 Things, the details, the, the events that are going on, but I know for a wedding there can be a lot of calling that happens after the fact, are you doing a lot of calling after shooting an event or are they expecting photos right away? And you don't have time for that,
Gustavo Fernandez: 21:04 You know, depends for the photos right away, you know, there's diff different clients have different needs to answer your first question on the calling, I delete about 60% of the images, 60% from an event. And for example you know, if I'm taking one shot, I'm taking three to four to five of that same shot. Why am I doing that? I'm doing that just because of focus, mainly making sure I'm a number one, I'm getting an in focus. Number two, I'm getting a great expression from that speaker or from that interaction of two people speaking, right. You know, two people speaking, I'll probably take a minimum of three to five photos, and I'm just kinda sitting there like looking around, looking through my viewfinder, which is what I try to teach. A lot of my shooters is making sure you're always looking around your viewfinders like, Oh, is there an exit sign in that corner?
Gustavo Fernandez: 21:55 Is there something distracting over here? Is there somebody that's going to be coming in my field of vision and, you know, getting into my photo and just creating that photo versus just trying to just, you know, provide a candid photo. That's one of the things I tell my shooters is Kay, slow down and create the image instead of just taking a random candidate. So it's, it's so I'm delivering basically I delete about 60 to 70% of the images because of that, because I'm taking three to five photos of every shot that I want to deliver. And what does that client expect? You know, it all depends. Sometimes it's like, Hey, we need social media imagery, you know, an hour after the event, we need 10 to 15 photos throw on Facebook or on Instagram or whatnot, or on Twitter. A lot of times for, for example, for, for JP Morgan, does that for me.
Gustavo Fernandez: 22:47 And what does that look like? That typically looks like me grabbing my laptop at the end of that keynote session that happened with the important speaker, just a quick download and throwing off 15 images on a thumb drives like, Hey, here's a director of PR. She just had, I hand it over to her. She, she takes care of it to a little bit of an added service where we bring it in house, excuse me. And as speaker and in house editor, that'd be cloud. We bring in, we do a job for bank of America where we bring it in house editor. We're on the hour I am, or after every session I'm walking over and handing out, handing my memory card to my editor. And he's actually in a team, in a room with the team two or three PR gals and, you know, a couple of the marketing people. And they'll go over it and look at all the images on his laptop and be like, we want that one, that one and that one, and they'll own the, as they, as they go, there'll be publishing those images to Twitter and to the different social networks. That's incredible.
Raymond Hatfield: 23:46 Yeah. That sounds very high stress. That sounds very high stress.
Gustavo Fernandez: 23:50 It's not bad. Cause you just have to hand it over. Right. We'll let my editor stress out.
Raymond Hatfield: 23:56 So if you are deleting or I'm sorry, if you're not delivering, you know, 60 to 70% of the photos that you take say, I don't know how long is a typical corporate event and how many photos would you say that you deliver?
Gustavo Fernandez: 24:11 Gosh, that's a great question. Typical. It all depends. They're all different, right? It could be a one hour NASDAQ closing bell ceremony, which I'll deliver actually probably two to 300 images, which is actually quite a bit for an hour. But as you know, I guess I could walk through that. What, you know, if you walk that I meant, what is, what is that event, right? There's two or three people that are introducing the main speaker, then there's the main speaker and then there's sort of the ceremony. So there's a lot going on within a closing bell ceremony. Too, a lot of events are those two hour networking kind of an alumni event at, in the evenings, you know, I'll deliver, I don't know. It always varies. So it's hard to say. But I definitely tend to overdeliver than under-deliver. So I definitely want to have them have more images than less what I typically, I think in my frequently asked questions, it says 50 to 100 images or an hour or something like that.
Gustavo Fernandez: 25:10 So yeah, pretty standard. And but it's funny cause when I'm shooting and I'm thinking that I don't have that many images because this event, maybe for some reason it doesn't have that much going on. I'm always in my back of my mind thinking, you know, when the client asks like, Hey, is he, are these all the images? Like yeah, if you look at a hundred images in an hour event, like that's more, it's like one more than one photo of minute. They're like, Oh, okay. Nevermind. So it's always sort of in my back of my mind is like, Oh, I got to get a few more images trying to create something.
Raymond Hatfield: 25:44 Yeah. The internet has ruined, has ruined people's perception on how many photos is enough, for sure. Yeah.
Gustavo Fernandez: 25:50 Yeah. I mean, you know, one of the challenges I have is definitely calling down and especially for those two or three day events, I would do these two or three summit type days events for Forbes. And they're like, Hey, we just want like five to 10 minute images of a beach unlike I kinda found, Oh my gosh, I was like, I have like 300 of this one hour session, you know, just making sure I'm getting all the great angles and what it's like, how do you want me to call this down the 10 photos to finally deliver it? So that's my biggest challenge is of course is deleting all the, all the good stuff.
Raymond Hatfield: 26:26 Yeah. And again, you know, it's one of those things you don't know if they're going to want it, you know, portrait or landscape. So you just gotta deliver as much as possible when it comes to pricing this for, for B2B business to business. Right. Right. My head, it starts to hurt this. This is where it gets crazy. You look online and people are charging usage rights and image sizes and you know, delivery times. And it's just a whole list of ad-ons. It seems that you have no idea how to charge for these things. So for you, what is the pricing structure for corporate events?
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Raymond Hatfield: 27:24 I hadn't thought of that many you know, ideas as to why corporate events is such a better business. You know, when you think about it on paper compared to compared to weddings or corporate events, or is a better business than weddings, as you said, you know, you really get wrapped up in the idea of like, Oh, we're gonna have so much fun at your wedding. And this is like the happiest day of these people's life. And it really becomes personal. It becomes emotional. But when you break it down from a business standpoint and those three tips that you shared are it makes me rethink, wait, why, why am I shooting weddings? All of that sounds sounds fantastic. So, so thank you. Thank you for sharing those things.
Gustavo Fernandez: 28:05 I mean, you know, the, the other thing about the weddings people get, they get excited about the sexiness of that. Ooh, I want to build my, and I don't even know where the, the, the, the high end numbers are, right? Like that $10,000 wedding, right? Like good people don't but people forget and they, they need to start thinking about is how much time are you actually putting in a ton on that first initial email consultation to that one hour meeting or two hour meeting with those clients to potentially hire you to then the engagement session, that's two or three hours to then the day of the wedding, you know, 10 plus hours driving back and forth and whatnot. At the end of the day, you're looking at 30 to 40 hours, you know, divide that time, you know, 10,000 by that, like, what do you actually make them take out expenses, taxes, take out expenses.
Gustavo Fernandez: 28:49 Like, what are you actually making prior? It sounds like very lucrative and exciting, but at the same time, you need to kind of boil it down and be like, wait a second. What is this really going to take? And then think about all the marketing expenses they're already doing and whatnot, and all the marketing posts, that wedding that you have all the hours you have to spend after we actually done with the client, then all the hours you're spending with pulling all the cake photos, pulling out all the vendor, photos, you know, all that stuff. But yeah.
Raymond Hatfield: 29:17 So and again, that, that, that, that's what makes sense. I think, you know, we don't, we don't really spend a lot of time thinking about our time and how much it's worth to us. So again, thank you for sharing that part of the whole reoccurring revenue, which is really exciting is we all know that photography is a service more than it is a commodity, right? It's not a commodity, it's a service we're serving somebody. And whether it be a couple at a wedding or a large publicly traded company in the, in the, you know, in the case here with corporate events, it's a service and part of a service or part of being a good service provider is over-delivering. So how, or who do you try to over deliver to when working with large publicly traded companies?
Gustavo Fernandez: 30:05 Yeah. That's a great question. I mean, I look at it. How do you, a lot of times you don't even have to over deliver in the photography, right? How can you deliver as a person I can you deliver as that service provider? Right. I'll bring up a couple of examples with HPE. Hewlett Packard enterprises is one of my clients and they, they hire me every year to come in, to do a week long. It's actually two and a half day or three day event for their executives. And it's like a hundred or almost 200 of their top executives from around the world. Wow. And I do almost 200 headshots, pull us cover the two and a half day event, plus all the evening. It's, it's madness aside for me delivering and giving them a great product and a great experience for each of those people that I do the headshot with headshots, for it's those little things, right.
Gustavo Fernandez: 31:00 She my client's like, Hey, we have these gifts. These are the little raffle items that we do during the random breaks and whatnot. Here's 20 items. I, Kate, can you take photos of each of these and send them to me so we can put them on the slide? I was like, you know, of course not a problem. I want to step further and fix it. It's like, you know what? Wait, I don't have to take a photo. I'll have to do is look up the name and pull the photo from online. So now for the last two years, I goes like, Hey, do you need me to take of this again? And I'm not charging them extra. They're already paying for my time to be there. I am. How can you make their life easier? How can you assist them? Right. So I sit down, I spend half an hour.
Gustavo Fernandez: 31:39 I literally it's like a tray of all these cool things. Like the iPad, like the different, you know, the AirPods and whatnot just takes me 30 minutes, pull it up, drag the file, put it in a Dropbox and send her the foot. It's like, she just, it's one of those things that like, okay, done. I don't have to deal with that. A lot of times it's like, Oh, there's a napkin on the floor in the middle of the hallway. Like people are going to be walking out here. And five just picking up that napkin, taking care of, of things that are not per se. You're, you know, a lot of people will just walk by it and not care. Right. Like I want to make, I want to be, you know, like part of the team, how can you be part of that team? How can you make things flow half the time people asking me, it's like, Hey, where's the restroom.
Gustavo Fernandez: 32:23 It's like, Oh my gosh, here. It's like, right over here. It's like, Hey, what's the wifi? It's like, Oh my gosh. Here's where I see people kind of like with those questions and I'll over here and I'll step in like, Hey, you know, just walk down this way and whatnot. How can you be part of that team? How can you kind of go above and beyond be helpful instead of just kind of sticking in the background and just sort of, you know, being out of the way per se. Right? Yeah. So yeah, it's just, it's just being part of the team, you know, that's like my number one Hmm. Advice, piece of advice. It's like thinking how they're thinking. Right. It's like, how can you help them a little bit better? How can you, Hey, next year? Here's what I would like, Hey, would you suggest?
Gustavo Fernandez: 33:08 I would suggest is like, Oh, great idea. Or letting, Hey, you know, a lot of times like even just helping, like other vendors out, it's like, Hey, we're missing a place setting here. You know, we're in a room of 200 plus place settings. Like, Oh, they miss one. It's like, you go walk up to the server, be like, Hey guys, you missed a place setting here or to the lighting peoples like, Hey, the lighting's a little off to the left on that, on that right couch. Do you mind just like, Oh, thank you. And I'll show them on the camera that way they look good. So how can you help everybody else add that venue out that event look good. I think that's, you know, you're always going to win
Raymond Hatfield: 33:45 For sure. For sure. What about again, going for like the service based business? One thing that I do for wedding couples is that once I book them, I send them like a little care package, a little gift package. So it has some trail mix. It has just like some fun outdoor stuff to kind of promote that adventure that I try to push with with my wedding photography. Is there anything that you do in terms of gifting that, that helps kind of a corporate, let me, let me kind of rephrase this, which is like, when you think of gifting the corporate world, there's lots of it. Do you do any gifting that stands out that makes sure that your name is at the top of the list rather than just
Gustavo Fernandez: 34:26 Popcorn or some chocolate or? Sure. Yeah. That's a great point. I don't do anything the same repetitively. So for you or for a lot of wedding photographers, yes. That makes sense. It's part of your workflow. Here's my little typical gift basket that I send to my 30 to 40 clients every year. It's like June to Chimp, like clockwork. Like that's my touchpoint for me, you know, those corporate events are a little bit different, right. Cause they're, they're calling me every year, so I can't be like first time. Okay. Send them the basket second time. What do I send them? So I try to take it a little bit different and just build upon that relationship. So for example, like, Oh my, my event planner is having a baby, so, you know, connected them and, and that level it's like, how can you send them a gift that is super unique that they're never, you know one of my key tenants to a gift is how can I give them something that they're never gonna throw away?
Gustavo Fernandez: 35:25 So that's that's and one of my event planner, friends gave me the best idea and for people that are having babies, and that idea was it's a, it's a custom stool. I think it's called a stool. It's one of those step stools for, for kids to step up, to kind of brush your teeth. Oh, okay. Yes, yes. Over at the sink. And what's cool about this stool. It's, it's less than a hundred dollars, but it's this cool colorful stool and it has their name engraved in block letters and the block letters come out. So it's super unique. So it's like, you know, it's like, Oh cool. It's got Raymond on there. Like you can pull the R out, will the AI, you know, before they can even stand on a stool, they can already be playing with it. So it's like, how can you create that, that, that yet.
Gustavo Fernandez: 36:12 So for me, given that my clients are longterm clients, right. They're calling me every year. So I just try to keep up to date with what's going on with their lives, you know, checking in via text or checking in via Facebook as many of us do. And making sure that we're seeing when their birthdays are and whatnot. I mean, it's, you know, from, from a simple, thank, you know, as we all forget about, you know, a handwritten think, you know, to, you know, a very unique gift, like, like that it's, you don't have to be doing that every year. It could be every couple of years. So that's kind of the beauty of a building. Some of these relationships is you're going to have them for the longterm. So it's not like I need to be sending them gifts every three months per se. But again, it's just finding something fun, finding something unique.
Gustavo Fernandez: 36:56 For example, one of the directors of marketing for a tech company come to find out he was half Dominican you know, born and raised in the Dominican Republic. So he has a little hat, has a little boy and I was back home in the dr. And I thought of it. It was like, Oh, it'd be cool if I brought back, first of all, some Dominican coffee, which is the best. And then second of all, I was like, Oh, what can I bring for his son? You know that, so he could try like some Dominican treats. And it's like, you know, those little kind of very sweet things that you eat as a kid, wherever you're from. You always remember that. And so I picked up a few dollars worth those Dominican, very sugary treats and sent that to him, you know, with with some of that coffee, it's like, Hey, some thoughts from home, you know, hope you enjoy this.
Gustavo Fernandez: 37:40 And your boy can kinda get a taste of where you come from and whatnot. So it could be as simple as that, literally I cost me $10. So, but that not turned into $10,000 client because a few months later he calls me like, Hey, you know what, I'm having a meeting and I need the meeting photograph that I need a hundred head child site. Let's talk. So for me at the end of the day, it's just keeping it personal. And then number one, and then number two, just being top of mind, you know, checking in with them once in a while from a simple tax to just, you know, one of the things I love these days is just doing like a video email. You know, you've got a loom.com or many other service providers out there and just do a quick, it's like, Hey, you know, Raymond checking in with you, man, and we'll be doing one last thought about you.
Gustavo Fernandez: 38:28 I read this article. I wanted also send it to, so I'll send a lot of articles. A lot of times I'll send a random text with a, with like one of the fun ones. It's like, Oh, I'm here, here with mom. So they get to connect. Cause like, Oh, here's a guy, who's got a family. Here's, here's what we're supporting. And just for me, it's just keeping it personal and continuing to build that relationship and then keeping tabs of what they're up to via Facebook or Twitter or what, what the best place might be for them.
Raymond Hatfield: 38:56 That's great. I mean, again, you've really boiled it down into a, I hate to say a system, cause it's not, it's not a system, but it's, it's a way of doing business that is personal to who it is that you're working with. And I'm sure that in the world of, you know, fortune 500 companies and, and again, publicly traded organizations, there's probably not a lot of that. So I could see how you would, how you would stand out with, with your photography and and your service. So that's not a such a great tip
Gustavo Fernandez: 39:21 And bring into human to corporate because it's all about humans, right? It's all about people. So you see these behemoths fortune 500 companies, but there's always a human behind, that's pulling the trigger per se, right? There's always that one person that is that you need to connect with. So that's where I'm still at with what I did with weddings, build that relationship. And that's the same thing I do is just build that relationship with them.
Raymond Hatfield: 39:47 Well, now, now that you need to update your website and put that a little blurb under there, bringing the human to corporate, I'm not gonna charge you for that, by the way, that's all yours. You can have that. I had one question earlier that I did not ask you that, that I really, I really do want to get back to. And that is, you know, when you are shooting weddings, there's a lot of opportunity to be creative with your imagery, to do something new and unique, either with lighting or, you know, a focal length and just create something that most people can't see, unless they're a photographer. How much room is there for creativity in the corporate event space?
Gustavo Fernandez: 40:23 Gosh typically not that much, you know, there's maybe I guess not even 10% of my images or it might be a handful of images, every, every event, right. That I might get a get LA, you know, I was like, Oh, then maybe this cool angle or shoe does in between people's heads, from the audience and whatnot. There is very limited amount of, of that. And if you think about it, if you look at, for example, a corporate brochures, or if you look at annual reports and whatnot, it's, I'm shooting for JP Morgan or I'm shooting for HPE or I'm shooting, what do they want to project? You know, if this is an image that I took and they put it on the website, would this be an image that they would feature on the website? Yes or no? So a lot of times like, yes, it's going to be a lot more businessy.
Gustavo Fernandez: 41:10 It's going to be a lot more at the same time that's a challenge, right? Because you still have to, how do you deliver something that doesn't have that exit sign back there? It doesn't have a detract, distracting element factor, you know, is a great composition and whatnot. So that's, I think you're still being created because you're still thinking about all those things, right. And at the same time, like how can I bring in something different than my last event, but to be honest, you know, I'd say, gosh, 60, 70% of the time, it's always the same. You know, but different venues provide different lighting capabilities and unique spots. So that's where you can kind of challenge yourself in a way, or, Hey, this is what I typically deliver. 80% of the time I can play for the rest of the time that 20% I can kind of get crazy.
Gustavo Fernandez: 41:57 I can bring out that 1.2 lens and play with that. So that's one of the things I, I learned quickly back in my wedding day is when I hired a second shooter that I didn't realize was one of those shallow depth of field shooters. Right. And it didn't necessarily match my profile. So when I came together and the album was like, Oh my gosh, this is a big challenge because they're hurting emitted as we're shooting through the window or the glass and whatnot. Right. And super, super creative. Where, for me, I'm more of a, kind of a classic, more timeless, you know, a standard is a terrible world word looked right when Hertz super creative images came together like that didn't really match up. So so yes, it's definitely you know, as Paul Jarvis says I forget the name of the book he wrote, but you know, it's, it's, it's, I'm running a boring company, you know, but there's nothing wrong with boring and I'll send you the article, I'll send you a link to that article.
Gustavo Fernandez: 43:01 And it's like, it's a company that, you know, it's a business that provides net revenue and is repeatable. And it's, you know, it's not that complicated. So, but if it's somebody that like, Oh my God, I just, I need to be super creative and, and, you know, creating these, these, our designs are these cool shots like, yeah, maybe weddings is definitely the place you gotta be, because that's where you have that flexibility. That's where you have that time. That's where you have, that's where you own the subject. Right. You know, for us in the corporate, we don't own the subject. We can't touch that subject because they're on a schedule and we're just trying to keep up and create as they go. So again,
Raymond Hatfield: 43:39 I can say from personal experience, you know, sometimes being forced to be creative at a wedding can kind of drain you a whole lot faster than when you are, you know, trying to get the shots that you need, getting the shots that you know, that the clients are going to like, and then still being able to, you know, come home and do something fun and interesting with their kids, or just do that, do that creative you know, aspect of photography on your own time. But if you've got a business that's making money, then there's nothing wrong with that.
Gustavo Fernandez: 44:06 That's right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's, it's funny. Cause I'll, I might do, I I'll do one a wedding maybe every other year or so. And I just got a recent inquiry from a planner who had done several corporate events for it's like, Hey, would you do this? I'm like, tell me more. It's like, Oh, they're, you know, in their fifties plus, and second wedding, I'm like, yes, that's my client. Why? Because it's going to be easy. They're going to, they're not going to you about it. They're just going to be like show up and take some nice photos of us and their friends. It's all going to be classic and simple looks and standard, you know, posing and whatnot. I was like, of course I'll be there. Yeah. So I, it's funny how I trans whatever the word is. Right. Transpose that into the, the corporate is I'll, I'll put that into the wedding work that I still do, like, Oh, a simple, you know, wedding at city hall in San Francisco for a friend. Heck yeah. Because it meets all these criteria.
Raymond Hatfield: 45:01 Absolutely. That is so great. That is so great. You know, Gustavo, I have to say thank you for your time today, because I know that you shared so much and we've gone over the time that we had talked about already. So again, super gracious with the time. And I can't tell you how much I appreciate that, but before I let you go, first of all, is there anything that maybe I didn't ask you that you want to make sure that people understand about corporate event photography? And then lastly, you know, if anybody's interested in wa where can they find you online?
Gustavo Fernandez: 45:32 Sure. Yeah. I mean, well, first of all, thank you for having me. This has been super fun. We've gone all sorts of places where I hadn't gone before. And gosh, I think we covered it all, you know, at the end of the day, you know, it's like find that niche that you love, you know, try all the different niches, try all the different, like I mentioned, the baby photograph and event photograph and the family photograph and a corporate thing, photographing a wedding, you know, and, and just, just giving everything a shot and a photograph of that watch or doing product photography, just trying everything at least once to kind of get that experience to see why do I love this? Why do I not love this? And I think that's kind of the best place to start and then find some of those thought leaders and learn from them and how can you be a resource to them and go from there, but where to find me simply Gustavo fernandez.com that's the easiest way. And I'll send you a link to, to one 80 have a little PDF of the top 10 things to do to start off with a corporate event business as a resource. And we'll go from there.
Raymond Hatfield: 46:36 Perfect. I will, of course put that in the show notes for listeners to find. And again, Gustavo thank you so much for your time. And I look forward to keeping up again in the future.
Gustavo Fernandez: 46:46 Same here, Raymond appreciate it. Thanks again.