Heather Lahtinen is a wedding photographer and educator at the Flourish Academy. Today we talk about how to deal with overwhelm when getting started in photography and the simple mindset tips you can use to feel more motivated today!
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In This Episode You'll Learn:
How Heather accidentally got into photography
What Heather struggled with when learning to use her camera
The one mindset switch that will remove the overwhelm around learning photography
Dealing with imposter syndrome and how to stand out
The difference between comparison and inspiration
A mistake Heather made early one that set herself up better or success
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How to break past the $100 per session mindset
How to NOT lose all your clients when you raise your pricing
How to find and define your target client and how to get in front of them
Resources:
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Full Episode Transcription:
Disclaimer: The transcript was transcribed electronically by Temi.com and may contain errors that do not reflect accurately what the speaker said. Because of this, please do not quote this automated transcript.
Raymond Hatfield: 00:00 I was talking as I was having a conversation with a listener the other day, who was talking about how bad she wanted to go full time. And she was telling me how much you loved photography. And she wanted to be able to make an income at home while still raising her kids. Right. Right. So I asked her, well, what, what is it that you need to be able to get there? And she said, well, I need a real camera because currently she's learning and enjoying photography, just, just with her cell phone, which is great, but it's not very uncommon. Is it for us to kind of see the future and want the end result when you first got started? Were you blissfully unaware of the idea of how hard it was to be a photographer?
Heather Lahtinen: 00:42 That's a great question. Raymond, I'm actually an accidental wedding photographer. So I don't know if this has ever happened to you, but have you ever showed up at a wedding? And you're like, Hey, congratulations. This is so fun. Who's your photographer? And they say, Oh, we were hoping you would take photos.
Raymond Hatfield: 00:58 No, that's never happened.
Heather Lahtinen: 00:59 Okay. It happened to me. It happened to me. I went to my cousin's wedding. My daughter was about a year old. And so I had a baby and I said, Hey, who's your photographer. And they, they asked me to take photos of their wedding, the day of the wedding, the wedding. Wow. So talk about blissfully unaware. I didn't have a clue. I said, well, that information would have been useful yesterday. I would have maybe charged another battery. Raymond. I had a Canon Powershot G three point and shoot camera, and I didn't know how to use it. So I was just known in the family as the person who took like all of the snapshot type photos. So it was a low key outdoor wedding and I took photos for them and I had a lot of fun and I put them on, you know, back in the day I put them on a disc and I gave them to them and they loved them.
Heather Lahtinen: 01:44 And I had a lot of fun, but they were just snapshots. I mean, let me give you an example. I photographed the entire bridal party at F 2.8, which meant that the bride and groom were in focus and nobody else was, but I didn't know any better. And listen, the truth is they got what they paid for. I was free. Okay. So I did the best I could, but I had a lot of fun with that. I didn't even know about DSLRs per se. I knew there were better cameras. I knew I didn't have the best camera, but I knew I was having fun. I went to, I was working a corporate job at that time. And I went back to work that Monday and I was telling a friend, look, I photograph for my cousin's wedding. Look at these photos. They're fun. Right. I knew they weren't great.
Heather Lahtinen: 02:25 They were snapshots. She said, what are you doing on June 13th? And this was like, like three weeks ahead. And I said, Oh, I don't know why. And she said, well, I'm getting married and I don't have a photographer. Could you take some photos at our wedding? And I said, I said, you're hilarious. I have no clue what I'm doing. Are you okay if I ruin your wedding? And she said, well, we weren't going to hire a photographer. Oh, okay. So my photos would be better than none. So I agreed to do it. He even bought a little tiny flash because that, that power shot actually had a hot, so I was able to buy a flash and I photographed that wedding. And again, these were just snapshot images. I knew I needed better gear, but I didn't, I didn't know what any of that.
Heather Lahtinen: 03:10 Again, I was working a corporate job and I had no aspirations at that point to be a, any type of photographer, let alone a wedding photographer or an entrepreneur. I was quite happily working in a corporate job. So it was just a strange thing, how it came to be. And then somebody else saw those photos and asked me to photograph their wedding. And so that next year I photographed three, three weddings, like wow, friends and family just really, really low key. At this point, I did buy a new camera. I bought a Canon 10 D with a kit lens, which was like their low level, you know, entry-level, I should say camera. And the next year I shot 30 weddings. I went from three to 30. Yeah. On a Canon and with very, very little knowledge.
Raymond Hatfield: 04:01 So let's go ahead and go down that trail right now, which is you had some sort of experience you had experienced to a degree, right. To be kind of known as the family snapshot photographer. Right. But that doesn't mean that you're qualified. I'd say, you know, be the pro that you would consider yourself today. So where did the education come from for you? Like where did you learn the technicals of photography to start getting better?
Heather Lahtinen: 04:30 Yeah, that's a great question because this was 17 years ago. So it wasn't like there were courses on the internet, you know, you would have to buy books or maybe go to a workshop. But for me it was just trial by fire. I just practiced. I just shot like crazy. The best thing you can do is shoot as much as you can, Raymond, I knew the photos were terrible. I was not delusional. Right. I knew that they, they didn't look good, but I also knew that in order to get better, I had to be willing to look bad. In other words, you have to be willing to suck and produce bad work so that you can get to the point where you learn and you produce good work. That's the only way to learn is by taking action. So I just shot like crazy.
Heather Lahtinen: 05:12 I shot weddings. I shot friends. I shot families. I shot babies. Anything. Anybody would let me photograph. I photograph just for the practice and that's, and then over time, you know, you start to learn like never forget. The first time aperture really clicked for me that I understood that if I changed my aperture, I could make my background blurry. I didn't know that. I didn't know how people got their backgrounds blurry. I didn't understand that it was their lens and their aperture. And because I had a kit lens, I actually wasn't able to reproduce that when I learned it, I bought the Canon 50 1.2 lens.
Raymond Hatfield: 05:51 Oh, wow. You just went all the way
Heather Lahtinen: 05:53 I went all in. I did. And it was, it was magic. I remember I put an, a priority. I set it to one, two, but again, I still wasn't quite sure what I was doing. I took a photo in the background was blurry and I mean, I could have, I would have died happy. Right. Then I was so excited that I finally figured out how to make a background blurry. And then it's obviously mastering your craft. And you know, the key is, it just takes time and you have to just photograph and you, and you have to understand what you love and what you don't love. So I learned very quickly that I wasn't really cut out for families, but I loved weddings. So I put all of my effort into learning wedding photography. I took a few workshops that I found, like you had to physically fly to a workshop to watch a well known photographer, shoot a wedding, or learn from them. I did several of those and shot a lot of weddings 30 a year for several years before I got to a point where I felt really confident in my work,
Raymond Hatfield: 06:54 That is, that's an impressive growth. I don't think that many people are going to you know, discount that at all. Because obviously, I mean, the, the journey that you had to go on there just to be able to get to where you are is it's something that I would say, I don't want to say that it's uncommon because I feel like everybody kind of starts off in a way of like, Oh, well we have a family or a friend whose wedding I'm going to shoot. And then that's where it's going to go. But what was really interesting is that you took that newfound excitement that new found joy or passion, and then you really, really went in like all in on it. Why do you think that photography was so specialty? What do you think it was about photography that really made your heart sing? I guess for lack of a better term,
Heather Lahtinen: 07:45 I don't know that it was even photography per se. I just love people. I love connecting with people in photography, happens to be my vehicle, to do that and to be able to produce a photo that, that makes someone cry or brings that type of emotion. I found to be very, very rewarding, very affirming and fulfilling, like my cousin's wedding. I gave them the snapshots. I printed a few out. I even figured out how to do some in black and white with the flowers and color. I don't want to brag, but I figured it out. And they, they were overcome with gratitude for those photos. And I thought, I think I got hooked on that feeling, you know, that people, that people could connect with their images in such a way that's like forever. Like the impact was, was so much bigger than just me in photography.
Heather Lahtinen: 08:39 And I had also lost my brother tragically at a very young age and I just thought everybody should have photos of their family, you know, and everybody should have nice photos. And you know, when someone passes, the first thing you do is you look for the photos. And so that was kind of in the back of my mind. I wouldn't say what drove me, but it was kind of in the back of my mind to make sure to get photos of the grandparents at a wedding and the family connections. And, and they loved that. And it didn't matter that they were not technically perfect. They didn't actually care. And I think to this day, they don't even notice my cousin in particular. I actually interviewed her recently on one of my episodes and I was like, Hey, how are you feeling about those wedding photos now that it has been 17 years?
Heather Lahtinen: 09:26 I said, it's okay. That was vintage Heather it's okay. You know, I get it. And she said, Heather, we love our photos. And we're so grateful. And I thought, wow, that was on a point and shoot camera. And she, so it wasn't, it wasn't the camera. And it wasn't the quality of the photos. Those things are important down the road. For sure. I don't want to say that they're not, but what was more important to me was the connection with people. And I often look back at that scenario and I think what, what if I would have said no leak? What if they would've said, can you take photos at our wedding the day of, and I said, Oh, no, I'm not ready. What would, where would I be still in corporate? Oh, I mean, I shot her to think, I just wonder if there are people out there that are seeing no to opportunities because they're not ready for them, but it's exactly what they need to do in order to get ready.
Raymond Hatfield: 10:18 Yeah. Yeah. Because who determines whether or not they're actually ready for that opportunity. It's, it's themselves, it's themselves. And that's kind of one of the things that I really want to talk about today, which is just that, I mean, as you mentioned, there, there is, there's, there's a lot of overwhelm that you can face when just getting started in photography specifically. I mean, obviously we know that there's, there's the learning aspect. We have to learn how to use these cameras. And then you're going to get to a point to where your gear is holding you back. So then you need to get overwhelmed by the amount of gear, you know, that there is and all the possibilities there. Do you think that it's even possible to, to not be overwhelmed in photography at some point?
Heather Lahtinen: 11:00 Wow. Very good question. Because I think a lot of photographers are overwhelmed and I have a slightly different approach to this. I believe overwhelm is a choice. You are choosing to be overwhelmed so that it gives you an excuse or an out for not pursuing it, because if it were easy, then you wouldn't have an excuse and you'd have to do it. I like to flip everything on the opposite. So when people say it's overwhelming, it's confusing. Business's hard. I say, well, what if it were easy? And what if we just had to do one thing? What could we do today or this week in order to move forward with our photography, instead of looking at this huge picture, of course, it's going to be overwhelming, but it's overwhelming because it's unknown. And there are people out there that actually know people like yourself that provide these resources that actually know how to make this work and provide roadmaps.
Heather Lahtinen: 11:53 So you don't have to feel overwhelmed because you have Raymond, you can just go find your, I went through your episode with your roadmap. And I thought that's brilliant. Every photographer should have access to your approach on that roadmap because you just laid it out for them. And, and actually that was like a mini course in photography. That episode was really good and you went through everything and so, okay, I get it. If you don't know it, it could feel overwhelming. But what if you can just tell yourself a different story? What if you could switch it and say, actually, I'm really excited about this. Maybe instead of overwhelming, could we call it an adventure? And we're just learning. And yeah, it's a bunch of things I've never done before, but I'm excited to learn. And I believe in myself when I can, I know that I can figure it out.
Heather Lahtinen: 12:38 So just the language we choose is super important here. I actually side note, when I was mentoring photographers for years, I got a certification to become a life breakthrough life coach, because I noticed that people were holding themselves back in all kinds of strange ways from pursuing their passion for photography or business. And I wanted to figure out how I could help them. And one thing I learned was that the way people talk to themselves about what's possible for them can determine their success or where they struggle. And if you use words like this is so overwhelming, I feel stuck. I don't know how to get there. Then you're going to feel those things. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. So if you could just change your language around it today and say, okay Heather says, I can figure this out. Raymond has the resources I can, I can make this happen. There's a lot to learn. Sure. But it's an adventure.
Raymond Hatfield: 13:33 Oh my goodness. I think a lot of people right now, we're just going to turn off this episode because they got everything that they could possibly have a lot of work to do after that. And reframing just how they see this adventure. Like you said, that is photography. So thank you so much for sharing that that really is a unique perspective that can really help out others. But let's, let's, let's be a little bit more practical here and talk about, let's go back to your experience. And when you, maybe not, when you first started weddings, but I want to know about the time when you first decided to yourself, you know what, I'm going to take photography seriously, to the point to where one day I'm going to leave my job. What was that like for you?
Heather Lahtinen: 14:18 Okay. So I had my daughter was a year. I was working a corporate job in engineering. I liked my job. I was doing well, was climbing the corporate ladder. And I really didn't have any reason to leave, but I did love photography. And when I went from three weddings to 30 weddings, something had to give yeah, right. Either I was going to sort of slow down with photography and refocus on my corporate job, or I was going to leave corporate and do photography. And I got to tell you, there was a moment and it was very brief where I thought I'm just going to back off on photography and just, you know, corporate is safe and I know where I'm headed and not in last very long because I'm, I'm actually, I'm very adventurous and I'm an overachiever. So I was like, no, I'm just going to, I'm going to go for it.
Heather Lahtinen: 15:02 I can be home with her. I could have a more flexible schedule. So I said to my husband, I said, Hey, look here. I said, what if I, I left my corporate job to pursue photography. And now, listen, we might be poor for a little bit because I was making good money. That's okay. Cause I'll figure it out now, you know, would you be okay with that? My husband is incredibly supportive. He said, of course, whatever you need to do. So I left thinking, okay, I'm leaving the salary behind. What am I going to do? This is very scary. This is very unknown. We didn't have the interwebs like we do now, how am I going to learn this? And I just started shooting. I just shoot, ask for money, allow people to pay you. And listen, if somebody says to you, like maybe you're photographing for your friends or your family.
Heather Lahtinen: 15:48 And they say, can I pay you for this? And you say, no, let people give you money. So I started just looking, letting people give me money. And before I, I knew it had enough money to buy nicer gear. My first big purchase was the 70 to 200 Canon lens. I was so proud of that lens. And then I started making money and a little bit more. And I went to 30 weddings and I raised my prices a little bit. And before long I had like blown my corporate salary out of the water. Wow. And that's because there's one thing I didn't take into account. There's one thing I didn't realize was that by leaving that job, it opened up space. You have to let go to let in. And when I left that job, I opened up the space where I could, I spend some time learning photography and you know, learning how to edit.
Heather Lahtinen: 16:37 I used capture one before Lightroom was announced and I'll never forget it. Like it was announced in 2006, it was life changing. Prior to that capture one, I was learning Photoshop, learning all of these things about business had no clue. And trust me if I can do it, anybody could do. I didn't have any experience with this at all. I was just learning as I went. I just didn't see any downside to trying so hard. I just did. Even if I made mistakes, I thought, well, there, I mean, what's the worst that can happen or just learn again. Or I edit again and whatever, and I just kept pressing forward. And then I got really serious. Like, no, I, I like this. I like the challenge. I'm going to grow this business. And I'm just going to knock it out of the park. And I set my sights really high, really high in terms of, I want to be this high end wedding photographer in my area.
Heather Lahtinen: 17:26 I want to be known for this. I'm just going to make it happen. And I did it in a very short period of time. And I think the key is actually, you know what? It goes back to something. You said you signed this, it was episode two 14 on your photography roadmap. You, you were I'm paraphrasing, but you said like you have to have a destination in mind. Like where would you like to go? You can't just say, I'm going to, you know, jump on the interstate. Cause I'm going to go on vacation. And I'm just going to drive to like, get somewhere. You have to put a pin on the map. You have to set a destination and ask yourself, like, what is it specifically you would like to achieve? Maybe you are a hobbyist who just doesn't want to pay for their own gear.
Heather Lahtinen: 18:10 Wouldn't it be amazing if you wanted a 70 to 200 or new camera body or looking at these mirrorless. And you're like, Oh, I want to try that out, but I don't want to pay for it. How can you get someone else to pay for? I can help you with that. And by the way, you can do it legally. You can legally have what the IRS designates as a hobby business, please seek advice from an attorney. You want to count not one, that's my disclaimer, but you can do that. But the point is you have to decide what your goal is, what are you aiming for? And so I was aiming for a full time, legitimate photography business. And I just wasn't going to rest until I, I figured it out and I wanted to figure it out like everyone else quickly, because I didn't, I didn't want to make mistakes. I wanted to make money, but I also, wasn't afraid to trip up. I wasn't afraid to make mistakes, so I just kept plowing forward. And and I made things happen pretty quickly.
Raymond Hatfield: 19:06 So there's that fly again? It's coming back. It's trying to move the blinds. So I'm sure that there's somebody listening right now. Who's thinking to themselves like, alright Heather, like, this sounds cool, but I have a four year degree. And who am I to claim to, to set my sights on being a high end wedding photographer. I haven't even gotten to school for any of this. What would you say to them?
Heather Lahtinen: 19:31 Ooh. So that sounds a lot like imposter syndrome to me. Right? And the symptoms of imposter syndrome or just what you said, the, who am I, or what are people going to think? Or maybe you have a lack of confidence or you just feel inadequate because you're comparing yourself to everyone else. And you're just, you have this fear of like, I don't know what I'm doing. What am I going to do? Okay. I just want you to whatever you're thinking in those regards ask yourself, is this thought serving me? Does it make me feel good? Does it feel good to think to yourself who am I? No, it doesn't feel good. Which means it's not the truth because the truth will make you feel good. And a lie will make you feel badly. So who are you not to do it? Why, why couldn't you do it?
Heather Lahtinen: 20:13 I mean, the definition of imposter syndrome is people who have this internalized fear of being outed as a fraud. So that's the definition. So my question to those people is are you, are you really trying to steal money from people? Because the definition of fraud is to, you know, deceive someone into paying you for something you don't know how to do. I mean, are you, are you truly stealing from people? No. No, of course. You're not a fraud and you're not. Listen. The only time you have to worry about imposter syndrome is if you're, you're a neurosurgeon, okay? If you're a neurosurgeon and you're going into surgery and you haven't studied yet, you have some issues. Yeah. Guys, relax. We're talking about photography here. Not curing cancer. There are no photography police that are going to come after you and say, you know what?
Heather Lahtinen: 21:04 You're an imposter. You don't know what you're doing. Keep up your camera. Yeah. Yeah. Turn it over. Turn it over because you're going to photographer jail. I mean, it just doesn't happen. So what does that even mean? So the funny thing is, and I'm not downplaying this. These thoughts are very real and they're very serious. The problem is when they're just in your head and you don't vocalize them or talk them through, they will absolutely hold you back. But you and I having this conversation or like, I work directly with a lot of photographers, well, group coaching as well as one-on-one. And when I have them talk this out, like, Oh, are you trying to steal from people? No, of course not. Okay. Then you're fine. You're offering a service. You bought a camera, you offer service people. You're not forcing people to hire you.
Heather Lahtinen: 21:50 People make a decision to hire you. If they want to hire you and pay you, please let them. It's just a service that you're offering. Allow them to pay you. You take their photo. What is, what is inherently negative or wrong about that? Oh, nothing. So you can do it. You can, you could put a post out today and say, Hey, I'm looking for some families. I'd like to practice, take some photos. Actually I teach at our local college and every semester I say, Hey, how many people in here are photographers? Raymond? No one raises their hand. Zero people. Yeah. And then I say, how many, how many of you guys have cameras? Well, they all raise their hand because they're taking a photography class. And I say, okay, cause last time I checked. If you photograph and you are a person and you add an ER to the end of it, that makes you a photographer and they'll laugh.
Heather Lahtinen: 22:39 And I'll say, how many people are photographers. I'll get them to raise their hands, you know, but they're kind of nervous about it. And they say, but Heather, I'm not a real photographer. Oh, you're fake you. Don't what, how so? Yeah, exactly. What does that mean? And, and then they get a good laugh out of it. And you start to see that these things that you fear are actually quite silly when they come to light, when they're in the dark, which is your mind. And they're just bouncing around. They're very real. And they're very scary. But when you talk about them, you're like, no, I'm just taking photos. And Heather told me to relax and I can take photos and it's fun.
Raymond Hatfield: 23:14 You'll be fine. Yeah. This reminds me of a conversation that I had a long time ago with somebody who they were, they were also talking about, you know, everything that they have to worry about when going full time in their photography. Right. Like I don't even know what to do about taxes, you know? W w w what if it changes my tax bracket? And I was like, you're so worried right now about being so successful in the future that you're not even willing to take action today to grow, you know, to potentially get there. You know, like if you get into a new tax bracket, cool. Like you're making a lot more money, more money. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Right. And I think that what you said right there kind of reminds me a lot about that. It's that, like, you really just have to take action, you know, and you can't just, Oh, your overwhelm yourself with all of the possibilities and you know, or what are the other established photographers in my area going to think if I come up, because who cares? Who cares?
Heather Lahtinen: 24:15 Well, they think, you know what? They don't pay my mortgage.
Raymond Hatfield: 24:18 Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Heather Lahtinen: 24:19 Why am I, why do I, why would you worry about what people are going to think? Because if they, if they like you, they don't like you, that's none of your business anyway, you can't control what people think, but why would you not focus on the people that love you? Why would you not focus on the people that want to hire you that want to, that want your services and that want to pay you, rather than maybe the couple of people who are rolling their eyes or saying, who does she think she is? And the truth is no one is thinking about you as much as you're thinking about yourself. And what are the chances that someone else is thinking your thoughts about you zero, because they're only thinking of themselves. So there's no. And by the way, side note, I read a book recently that I read a lot of books.
Heather Lahtinen: 25:06 I'm really into personal growth and development. But this one to me was life changing. It's called 90 seconds to a life that you love. And in that book, she says, it's actually not fear that your that's holding you back. So people label it as fear, but it's not. It is the potential possibility of what people might think. If you do something there's not fear because you will not get mauled by a bear. Like you're not going to die. There's no clear and present danger. So it's not fear. It's what if someone thinks I'm a fraud or an imposter? What if somebody, you know, makes fun of me or judges my photos. But, but it's not the fear of that. You're, you're afraid of the feeling that you might get. If somebody doesn't like your work. So that feeling might be embarrassment or shame. That's actually what you're avoiding. You're avoiding embarrassment. You're avoiding putting yourself out there because somebody might think something. But that, I mean, I think you'll agree. That's just no way to live your life.
Raymond Hatfield: 26:08 Yeah. You're, you're right. It's not any way to live your life in any sort of a meaningful capacity, I suppose. Which is one of the reasons why in the beginner photography podcast, Facebook group, like there's a zero rudeness tolerance policy, because as you, I mean, everybody's kind of at a different point in their journey. And I want people to fully understand that. And I want them to know that if they share a photo, well, that's where they're at in photography. And that there's really no reason why anybody should be able to criticize it in a way that is hurtful or anything like that, because we all need some sort of feedback. That's how we grow. That's why I started this podcast. That's why, you know, you went to these workshops to learn and grow from others. It's not necessarily about, you know, who can make the best photo today because we're all, we're all somewhere else. So yeah, 100. Yeah.
Heather Lahtinen: 27:03 Yeah. I like that, Raymond. And I'll tell you why. Actually I have this podcast episode where I have 10 tips to overcoming imposter syndrome. And one of those tips is to accept that you're a work in progress and get really comfortable and just accept where you are. You don't need to be always sad. I don't need to be the best wedding photographer. I just need to be better than I was last week. And as long as I'm getting better, I'm, I mean, there's a difference between comparison and inspiration. If you look at other people's work and it makes you feel badly about yourself, that's comparison, you need to stop. But if you look at somebody else's work and you think to yourself, Oh, I might be able to do that. And you go pick up your camera. That's inspiration. And I learned that from one of my early mentors. Who's Jerry [inaudible], he's like a world famous way.
Raymond Hatfield: 27:53 It's been on the podcast before. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. He's fantastic. Yeah.
Heather Lahtinen: 27:57 Oh my gosh. So I met him at a workshop. I took in the early two thousands and Raymond as luck would have it. I happened to sit next to him at dinner that night. And he's so full of wisdom. And that's one of the things I learned from him was you don't have to be better than you were. You don't have to be the best. You just have to be better than you were last week, you know? And he also, he was such an inspiration to me when I would look at his work, I would think I would literally go grab, grab my camera and a couple. And I would say, I want to try this. And I would, you know, try it with my own sort of spin on it because he was so, so inspiring to me. But if you look at another photographer and it makes you feel poorly about yourself, then obviously you need to stop doing that.
Heather Lahtinen: 28:38 Look at it for inspiration and where you want to, where you would like to go. But I love that you've created the space for people. I think you and I are very much on the same wavelength with this because of the flourish Academy. We don't tolerate condescending talk or negativity wherever you're at. I don't care if you're taking photos with your iPhone. I respect where you're at in your journey. And I also respect wherever you want to go in your journey. Because again, some people, everybody has a different goal, right? I just, maybe I just want to make some money to buy gear. Maybe I want to be the best in the world. I don't know. But we support all different levels because much like you, we believe there's room for everyone.
Raymond Hatfield: 29:19 Absolutely. Absolutely. It all comes down to everybody just has a different, I, you know, I mean, I could spend my whole life watching every Jerry Yonas training, try to shoot everything just like him and I will never. And yet, you know, your photos are uniquely you, I don't look at your photos and think like, Oh, there's a, there's a Jerry photo right there. These are your photos. And it's just because we all have different experiences. So that's, it's just very cool to hear that from somebody else as well, and kind of validate that. Right. One thing I kinda want to ask here is that, you know, I can think of more photographers than I could probably count who are, who are talented, who are, who are honestly, I mean, just really, really talented photographers, but they feel stuck, right? They feel stuck at this imaginary hundred dollar price point for, you know, a photo session or something. And they're worried that if they increase the prices, they're going to lose clients. Or they're worried of once again, who am I to charge more? You know? But obviously they're struggling because they're only charging a hundred dollars, right? What would you suggest they need to do to break past that hundred dollar price point?
Heather Lahtinen: 30:35 You are listening to the free version of the beginner photography podcast, where each week you learn how world-class photographers see and capture the world around them. If you want to hear the extended interview with their best business tips, to learn how to make money with your camera, then become a premium member today by heading over to beginner photography, podcast.com and click the premium membership button to join now.
Raymond Hatfield: 31:00 Geez, I really think that a lot of photographers listening right now were going to think to themselves, Oh my gosh, this makes a little bit more sense. And then be excited about the whole thing. That was definitely one of those things that I struggled with a lot in the beginning, like what should I be doing with this information? But when you break it down, the way that you just did right there, it really does make a lot of sense. It's not, it's not that we're going after Sarah, you know, we're going, right. Yeah, yeah. You know, and if she doesn't drink smoothies from this one place, like well, that's all right. Like there is some, some overall over overarching commonalities between these people and, and that's, that's what you need to find. So if I want to know right now, because there's, we were talking a little bit about overwhelm or opportunity, whatever we want to call it here, venture adventure. There's when it comes to business, I mean, that's a, that's an entirely different world from the technical side of photography, right? So where should photographers re who are looking to make money? I mean, just right now, be focusing their time and attention for success.
Heather Lahtinen: 32:10 If I were a new photographer in this particular day and age, I would find a mentor. I would find a group or someone to connect with because part of the thing with imposter syndrome is you don't know what you don't know. And you know, you don't know it, but you don't know what it is. So if you have a mentor or a group that you trust that you can go to, I mean, there's plenty of them out there. So find one that you connect with that resonates with you and then, you know, let them help you. Like, I'm sure you have checklists for photographers, don't you Raymond. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So you're willing to help people with these things. I wouldn't, I okay. There are two reasons why I went at it on my own, which by the way, I'm not proud of I think that I was very prideful and like, Oh, I'll figure this out.
Heather Lahtinen: 32:59 You know? And also the resources just weren't available like they are now. So what I recommend to people is drop the pride and don't try to figure it all out, just get some help and do that from someone who is just a few or several steps ahead of you. There again, there are, there are plenty of photographers out there that are willing to help you on your journey and, and give you the steps to do so. So I would, I would find a photographer or a group that I connect with. And I would for, if I were starting a business, I would look for someone who has a focused on business. You know, the things around insurance and taxes and whether or not you're going to use QuickBooks, or how are you going to track everything and how are you going to pay? And you're going to get an accountant. And what does that all look like? Are you going to be an LLC or a sole proprietor? I wouldn't, I wouldn't try to like research that to death on my own. I would just, I would just get some help. You you'll get there so much faster.
Raymond Hatfield: 33:56 Yeah. It's funny how much people are willing to hold themselves back without even knowing it because, well, it's going to save them $30. You know what I mean? Like I don't need that
Heather Lahtinen: 34:11 Be crazy. $30. You know, my daddy used to say, do you have more time? Or do you have money? Because if you have time and you want to scour YouTube to learn, I use Photoshop as an example, because Photoshop is pretty challenging for people to learn. So as I, if you want to learn Photoshop, you can scout or YouTube for hours, days, UNSW years. And, and you can, and you wouldn't even be sure if you were doing it right. And it would be very disconnected and you would spin your wheels and you would waste a ton of time. Or you can spend, you know, $29 and by course, and learn it in a weekend and get started with it, which ultimately not only saves you time, but actually saves you a ton of money because spinning your wheels. Whether, whether people think it or not spinning your wheels costs you money,
Raymond Hatfield: 34:57 Spinning your wheels, costume money. I like that.
Heather Lahtinen: 35:00 A lot of money, a lot of money in there saying, well, I don't want to spend the $30 on the course or their books. So I'll just because it's free on YouTube. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, hold on. Let's back up. If you're not willing to invest in your photography, how can you ask other people to invest in you as a photographer if you're not willing to spend money, but you, you think other people should be willing to spend money on you? I have found that the more I invest in myself and my business, the more clients I get and the more money I make it is proportional. The more I spend, the more I make, because I learn, I, I implement better marketing tactics, and then I get more clients and I make more money all, and all of this is happening at a much faster rate because I'm investing because the thing is, if you invest in a course, you're more likely to do it because you, you actually like investing in it. Like literally you put in money, right. You're not invested in YouTube. So what's your incentive to learn, except that you kind of want to learn it. I mean, there's nothing to push you, but if you're paying for it, you just, it pushes you a little bit more.
Raymond Hatfield: 36:08 Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure that you give this as well. It's like, you know, I've offered several courses that I've created myself. One is called auto two, amazing, which is to help you get out of auto and start taking, you know, a better pictures. And then one that'll be coming out very soon is called Lightroom one-on-one, which is essentially just like how to get started with Lightroom, like how to set it up, how to create a, you know, workflow within Lightroom and overwhelmingly. The biggest objection that I hear is, well, there's so much free information on YouTube, you know, about Lightroom. And it's interesting. Cause I remember when I first started learning Lightroom and I went to go look online and I watched, it was an hour and a half long tutorial, somebody put in a ton of work into this thing and I was like, okay, I'm ready to go.
Raymond Hatfield: 36:51 Let's get started. And I opened up Lightroom and I had a totally brand new version that everything that I had just watched was from an old version and was completely, completely different. And I thought I should have just been, you know, the $30 or whatever to, and then that's when I went on lynda.com or whatever it was at the time. And I signed up and I, I I got in on it, but I'm happy that I did that because now photo organization and editing is not something that I ever have to think about again. And I can just get that done and focus on doing more tasks, either grow
Heather Lahtinen: 37:22 And you feel good about it. You're confident in it because you know how to do it. And that's because when you take a step by step proven system, you immediately have confidence. If you go scour YouTube, it's complicated, it's confusing. And it leaves you feeling less confident than even before. So just investing a small amount will leave you with more confident. You know what Raymond, the funny thing is when Lightroom came out, I had Lightroom for free when it was first introduced because Adobe was giving it away at the, at the beta version before they released it full. And I wanted to test it. Well, Lightman was a new product. There were exactly zero tutorials, zebra, zero. So we had to figure it out on our own. This was 2006. I started using it. I, I just fumbled my way through it. I didn't know if I was using it right, but I did. And within six months I started teaching it. I was actually teaching it physically out of my home. Wow. And people, photographers were coming from my area to learn this new software, this light room. And they're like, well, how did you learn it? And I'm like, no, I just messed around. I figured it out. But that takes time. And it's frustrating and it's confusing. And I wouldn't recommend it because you don't have to, it's not new anymore.
Raymond Hatfield: 38:29 Right? Yeah. It's not new anymore. I like that. We've been spending a lot of time today talking imposter syndrome, talking about you know, this overwhelm that we feel and kind of how to get over it essentially. Right. And, and, and build something that we're proud of and start shooting and taking better pictures. But I want to know, have you ever had a failure that actually set you up for better success as a photographer?
Heather Lahtinen: 38:57 Oh my gosh. I had something happen pretty early on in my career. That's super embarrassing. Raymond. I don't know that I've ever in 17 years talked about this publicly. Oh my gosh. A double booked away.
Raymond Hatfield: 39:11 Oh no. When did you find out tell me that it wasn't the day of no gossip.
Heather Lahtinen: 39:16 I caught it six months prior. So it was, it was in time to fix, well, somewhat remedy the situation, but and I could make excuses. It was a hundred percent my fault. I actually had a bride that booked and changed her date. And when she changed to her new date, I sent her out a new contract and she never got it back to me. And so I hadn't put it. I had not put the new date on my calendar. I still had our old date, which meant that her new date was showing as open. So I booked it. It was Memorial day weekend, and it was a very busy weekend for photographers as you know, and it was a Saturday. So these Rose Saturday weddings and I stumbled across it. Truthfully by the grace of God, I just found it in my notes somehow.
Heather Lahtinen: 40:02 And I was like, she never said that contract. I never changed the date. This is a hundred percent my fault. I need to make some phone calls and I need to figure out what to do by the way, whenever you have a challenge in your business with a client, I highly recommend picking up the phone. People don't do this. I get that. You want to have things in email so that you have a record of it. And I think that that's smart to do after the phone call, follow up with the email so that you have it written, but always make like, I'm not going to email my bride and say, Hey, I double booked your date. That would just careless of me. So I called both of these brides and I was, I, to be honest, I didn't know the best solution in terms of which one do I shoot in which one do I help find another photographer?
Heather Lahtinen: 40:44 And I worked with them through that. I found another photographer who literally in my mind is like hero status. I said, I'll pay you anything, whatever you want, you shoot it. I'll edit, I'll handle everything. I'm just so, so grateful. And and my bride was just very gracious. I mean, I could not have been more lucky in terms of that, but that was a foe Paul. That was like an I'm pretty tight with my organization. And I thought, Whoa, I better do something because if that happened to me, for sure that can happen to anyone. And that's when I, I used back in the day I was using TAVI for studio management. So once I implemented that and just got my systems a little bit, it, a lot of it was on paper before that. So I got it off of paper and a little more organized digitally than things like that. Well, you know, and the thing is, I'm glad that that happened so early in my career. Cause guess what? It never happened again.
Raymond Hatfield: 41:42 Right, right, right. That's a big thing I hear from photographers who it's like, you know, some sort of studio management software it's so expensive, you know, like I, I don't even know how I'm, you know, going to continue to get bookings and I'm expected to pay four $50 a month for something like this, but right there, like there's, there's your proof right there. If you would have not showed up to that wedding and been sued for, you know, say, you know, 2000, even just a thousand dollars. I mean, that is, that's like more than two years worth of studio management fees. So just get it done, just get it done, get it.
Heather Lahtinen: 42:19 Don't be a Heather that's place. Don't be a Heather, if you need studio management, you know, get yourself something to help you. They're so robust these days and it makes your life so much easier. You don't have to remember to send contracts or payment information. It was all just taken care of for you. And things are so organized. I see a lot of photographers that get busy really quickly. That's when things slip through the cracks and you just don't want that to happen.
Raymond Hatfield: 42:43 Yeah. Especially, and I'll share this and then we'll get moving on. It. It's like right now, as I was telling you earlier, so many, not only 20, 20 brides, but 2021 brides are trying to book their wedding date for next year. Right now that there's just like this, this huge number of inquiries that are coming in as opposed to the rest of the year, if I didn't have something set up to keep me organized. In fact, just the other day I got an inquiry. I have two inquiries right now for the exact same wedding date. You know? And if, if I didn't pay attention to that. And if the software didn't tell me, then I would just like, okay, yeah, I'm free. I'd look at the calendar. Yeah. I'm free to the first one. And then, because they hadn't booked yet. I would tell the other one. Yeah, I'm free. And then they would both book and then it would be terrible. Yeah. But it'd be terrible. And five minutes after they paid the deposit, then I have to say, Hey, bad news. You know? And that's, that's never a good way to deliver that news. You don't know.
Raymond Hatfield: 43:39 So as far as I know that we're, we are going super long here on, on how long we've been together. And I cannot believe how gracious you are with your time. And I have to say, thank you so much for that. Thank you. But I have one more question for you before we go. And that is earlier when I was telling you about the the, the listener and the photographer, the mom who's right now, currently still shooting with her phone, but is so motivated to move forward. Right. she, what advice would you give her on, on getting started on a path in photography to help her succeed?
Heather Lahtinen: 44:20 Wow. Where do I even begin with something like that? So I'm going to assume dish, is it like families or children? She likes to photograph it's mostly families. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I, if she's ready in or interested, it's probably time to purchase a camera, you know? And at this point I actually, this is side note. I'm the director of education for our local camera store. It's called yam camera. And they're amazing. And we just did a live video last week. And I asked Robbie who works there, one of the owners. And I said, when somebody comes in and are asking for a camera, what are your feelings right now on DSLR versus mirrorless? And he said, I just don't see any downside to mirrorless. So if somebody is brand new and starting, I would recommend them a mirrorless kit. I would recommend either Nikon, Canon, or Sony have incredible mirrorless kits right now at I mean, affordable is different for everyone, but at least at prices that they aren't, you know, over the top.
Heather Lahtinen: 45:17 So I would start looking at a camera. And here's the thing. If you don't know, or you can't afford it, could you rent because I know specifically that why I'm, and I know there are places online that do this as well is renting the Nikon Z 50 kit right now. I want to say it's like $50 for four days. It gets very inexpensive. So could you rent a kit and practice with your children or your friend's children and see what you think and potentially look at purchasing a camera? I think that's going to be the first, I mean, the next logical step for her. Do you think
Raymond Hatfield: 45:52 Buying a camera is probably the first logical step into becoming a photographer? Yeah. So once let's say that she decides to rent a camera I, I kind of want to know, I guess I'll step a little back. I should have Claire. I should have made the question a little bit better. Sometimes ask very vague questions. As far as kind of the growth path goes, right, she's very excited and becoming a full time photographer. So let's assume that buying a camera and then learning photography is kind of that first step. What's the step after that,
Heather Lahtinen: 46:25 You know what photographers get really hung up right here and overwhelmed because they don't know what to do. Right. And you know what I tell them to do, get your feet out there and get shooting. You need to photograph, I don't care if people are paying you or you're doing it for free. I think there's a time for each. And if you need to get out there and build your portfolio by photographing your, your family or your friends, kids for free and get out there and do it because the only way you are going to learn and grow is by taking photos, you are a photographer, get out there and take photos. You have to do that so that you can improve and get better. And also so that you have something to show people so that they can see what you're doing. And the truth is, I don't think that you need a bigger following.
Heather Lahtinen: 47:05 I think you need one client. I think that if I were to break this down and you know, I really, one of my approaches with the flourish Academy is to like, I want to reduce overwhelm. I think, I feel like you're like this too. Like, you just want to, you want to take the intimidation factor out of it, right? So why couldn't you start by just taking some photos and literally creating a Facebook post, take some of your neighbor's kid. That camera comes in the mail. You take photos of your neighbor's kids and you post a photo on Facebook and you say, Hey, does anyone need family photos for their Christmas cards? Just, I just want you to get one client. If you can get somebody to pay you, that's fantastic bonus points. But if not, and you do it for free. That's okay too.
Heather Lahtinen: 47:46 I did a couple of weddings for free before I was paid. And that's fine. You know, I wouldn't, some people take that a little bit far and they continue to do it for free for too long. You know what I mean? But that's another discussion around money. But if you take, get one client, take one photo, post that and just ask people and repeatedly post it and share it with everyone. You'll find you just need one. You just, if you can get one or even a handful of clients that will produce more clients, because word of mouth marketing is everything. And people will talk. There is a book by Bob Bodine in, and it's called the power of who and a subtitle is why you already know everyone. You need to know. I loved that book. So I think he would agree with me. I don't know Bob, but I think he would agree with me.
Heather Lahtinen: 48:32 You don't need more followers. You already know everyone. You need to know. You just need to photograph because they know people, you know, the whole six degrees of separation thing, like summit, like the fact that you interviewed Jerry, like is amazing to me that I'm talking to you, you talked to Jerry is like, he he's like my idol. Like, he's just amazing. You know? So everybody knows somebody and there's a connection somewhere. Just like me photographing for the March of dimes, walk of babies. There weren't brides there, but people know people getting married and that's how you get more. So I think people focus on like, Oh, I need to post a photo. I need to get more likes or more people sharing it. I think you just need to get one client. I think you need to produce an amazing experience. I don't even care what your photos look like.
Heather Lahtinen: 49:15 Honestly, mine were terrible. It's just the experience and that you're trying, and you have belief and conviction and passion, and you're going to, which it sounds like this person does, like, they're going to make it happen. Then Pete, listen, people are looking, they are hungry for someone or something to believe in. If, if I left you with one thing today, just believe in yourself because nobody wants to hire an insecure photographer. Just believe in yourself. It was about, I mean, Raymond, it makes no sense. How could I go from three weddings to 30 when my photos were terrible, I'm not trying to be like humble. They, I can show you. They were awful. And I honestly couldn't understand why people kept booking me. And I thought maybe it's because I'm cheap. You know, maybe they just, not that wasn't, it, it was, it was conviction and conviction is what sells clients on you.
Heather Lahtinen: 50:06 Because every person you meet is a part of an audience that's observing you, evaluating you and hoping to believe in you. So if you decide right now, just to simply believe in yourself, because you can't ask them to believe in you, if you don't. But if you have that passion and conviction and belief, which by the way, I had more belief in myself at that point in time than I honestly should have. Let's be honest. The photos were terrible, but I just, I believe that I could get better. I believe that I could learn. If you just believe that people, people will be attracted to it and people will want to be around you. I think I did so well because I believed in myself and I had conviction and passion. And I think people it's, it's just magnetic. I think people it's contagious. People believed it because I believed it. But I was very forthright about my, my lack of ability with my brides early on. I told them I'm not, I'm not the best. I'm just learning, but I would love to shoot your wedding. And I, and I know that I can do my best and, and they liked being around me. So they told more people, word of mouth marketing was how I built my business. I didn't have social media and I'm actually proud of that. And I'm glad I didn't. I think it makes it easier and more complicated at the same time
Raymond Hatfield: 51:26 That right there is a whole nother episode, all about social media, but there was, there was that tough love, Heather that I that I was looking for this whole time, man, just get out and go shoot this shoot. That's right. That's right. Well Heather, I really can't think of a better way to end this interview then that right there I truly appreciate your time and everything that you have shared today, but before I let you go, can you please let the listeners know where they can find out more about you online?
Heather Lahtinen: 51:56 I love that. So you can find me@flourish.academy. So listen, there's no.com there because it's the future. Okay. I didn't need a.com. Okay. It wasn't available. Alright, whatever flourish.academy, you can go there. But specifically, if I had one request, I would really love for everyone to listen to my podcast, episode number 73 on imposter syndrome. So the whole episode is on imposter syndrome and how to overcome it. And I actually recorded that as an interview with our mutual friend, Nicole Begley. So she interviewed me for that. And I gave 10 tips for overcoming imposter syndrome. That's episode 73. Also I have a, a quick free win for your audience. If they go to flourish.academy/pricing, I have a free pricing, one Oh one course which is just a quick video that they can watch. So if they're not, they're like, but I don't. I, but Heather, I really don't know where to start.
Heather Lahtinen: 52:51 I just got my camera and I'm not sure what to do this video is absolutely for them because what I encourage them to do is just get out there and shoot. And you don't have to have everything perfectly figured out. I think that people want to know, like with pricing, for instance, they'll say what's the right way to price or how should I price? But that assumes that there's a correct way. And with everything in photography and in life, Raymond, I don't believe that there's a right or wrong decision. There, there are just different choices that lead to different consequences. So you pick one, maybe it doesn't work. Maybe you pivot. I don't know, but I think photographers hold themselves back with this fear of doing it wrong. And I'm here to tell you or encourage you. You are not doing it wrong. You are doing it perfectly right based on where you're at at this time. And you're always in the right place at the right time, under the right circumstances for your greater good.