Scott Strazzante is a Pulitzer Prize-winning photojournalist with more than 30 years of experience shooting for publications like the Chicago Tribune and the San Francisco Chronicle. Scotts Book “Common Ground” is a 2 decades-long exploration of a piece of land that transitioned from Homestead Farm to Sprawling Suburbs. Today we talk about the long-term project, what to look out for, and ideas for you to start your own long-term project.
Key Takeaways:
Scott narrates his experience starting in photography, from his interest in childhood till he took up photography as a full-time job, rather than staying in the family business.
Not having to face criticism in the early stages of his career was an advantage in a way, as Scott notes it may have discouraged him from pressing forward. On the other hand, less knowledgeable people appreciating his work kept him going.
Studying the photography of other professionals also played a major role in keeping him motivated and inspired.
The brightest spot of an image is usually where your eye goes first, and you can learn to control in a split second, how to compose an image that is pleasing to look at.
Scott describes the importance of focusing on creating images after gaining in-depth knowledge about your gear, rather than always trying to get new gear hoping to become a better photographer.
Having to overcome the fear of interacting with people became paramount, as this was a challenge that came with expanding from sports photography.
Scott narrates in detail, events leading up to his "Common Ground" photography project, with no initial plan to create it, as well as the emotion and serendipity surrounding the project. He notes that to date, it is the major work he is known for, and was a personal project rather than a product of affiliation with any paper.
I tell photographers that if they want to do a book that people would enjoy, they should take photographs of one block or storefronts, make prints of these, and put them away for years, when these come out later, they will be greatly appreciated.
Repetition is something that I always look for in photography, I think it's fascinating, and a good way to make a compelling image. If you can have one of something, two is better.
Three acts in a photo story: A beginning, a middle, and an end. When doing a photo story you want this: a cat climbs up a tree, someone shakes the tree, the cat gets out of the tree.
Scott describes a major challenge with photojournalism being having to leave people's lives when the story is over especially because you may not be able to continue to just hang around, even if they would want you to.
Resources:
Standout Quotes:
"I learned that the brightest spot of an image is usually where your eye goes first" - [Scott]
"I don't like getting a new camera because I think the key for anyone as a photographer is you have to learn your camera well enough that you forget it... and just concentrate on making images" - [Scott]
"So it's like time really has a way of improving old photographs" - [Scott]
"Follow your own voice, follow what interests you because if it excites you, it will excite other people... but you have to be very organized with it" - [Scott]
"That's the struggle sometimes too, you get so used to your surroundings that they don't seem interesting anymore, and that has been something that's been a challenge with the pandemic" - [Scott]
"I think turning the camera on your family is the easiest place to start" - [Scott]
"I can always go make a good photograph but it's going to take something that happens out of my control to elevate it to a great photograph" - [Scott]
"There's two types of photography, there's Taking photographs and Making photographs" - [Scott]
Did you enjoy this episode? Check out more recent interviews with other great guests!
Full Episode Transcription:
Disclaimer: The transcript was transcribed electronically by Temi.com and may contain errors that do not reflect accurately what the speaker said. Because of this, please do not quote this automated transcript, it is only intended as a reference.
Raymond Hatfield:
Scott, you know, you are a photojournalist with 35 years of shooting assignments for major publications. Obviously the the Chicago Tribune currently with the San Francisco Chronicle, your work has been recognized the world over you've won awards, you've published books. Can you tell me about before all of this, right. Can you tell me about some of your earliest memories with a camera?
Scott Stranzzante:
I think the reason I'm a photographer today is because when I was a child we, my family, we would go on summer car trips. So it was B my two older sisters, my parents, and then my mom's parents. So there'll be seven us in a country Squire station wagon. And we would, we would plan during the winter where we were going to go and there would always be two, three week trips. We'd leave from Chicago, we'd get in the station wagon and drive to say Arizona and back and stop it all our little tourist destinations on the way. And we did that probably for maybe seven, eight years until my sisters got really old and they didn't want to hang out with us anymore. But in those seven years we made it to all 48 contiguous United States, the lower Providences of Canada.
Scott Stranzzante:
And so I got to see the entire country, you know, through the windshield of the station wagon. Of course we had no seat belts on and I was leaning out in the front seat between my parents, you know but for me, just kind of watching the world go by just, I had no idea that it was training me, but it just made me a visual person. It made me kind of crave seeing things. And my dad was a very poor photographer. He had a cannon 81 film camera, which he would use occasionally. He also would do a lot of super eight videos of us at the swimming pool at motels and stuff. So he was interested in photography a little bit, but really never kind of took it anywhere. He was a tire dealer. He owned a tire dealership on the South side of Chicago.
Scott Stranzzante:
So it was just kind of looking through the car window. And also my family, we were big sports fans. We would get season tickets to white Sox games and bears games, and we would sometimes travel to the super bowl of the all-star game. So I was used to being at sporting events and I was a big sports fan. So that kind of led to me subscribing to sports illustrated magazine. So I would start putting up the covers and, you know, some of the inside photos on my wall. And of course I had this, the swimsuit issue on the other wall and my Farrah Fawcett poster, but, you know, but I was really into sports photography and I never once thought of it as a career. I didn't really have much forward thought of what I was going to do. I guess I kind of figured I was going to be a tire dealer like my dad and just kind of take over the family business.
Scott Stranzzante:
So I would occasionally borrow my dad's camera when we would go to sporting events and I would take photos from the seats and then I would take them to, you know, Walgreens or whatever at the time. And it get prints made. And in a five by seven print, the action was probably a half inch by a half inch. And I remember cutting out those little quarter inch by half inch pictures and putting them in photo albums and, and, you know, and, and for, you know, and, and it was really funny because when my dad first gave me the camera, I said, well, how do you use this? He said, this is all you need to know all we shoot between F eight and F 11. That's when he told me he's like, yeah, he said, make sure that needle's always between eight and F 11.
Scott Stranzzante:
I'm like, okay. So no matter what I shot, where I was at, I was always, you know, between F and F 11, it didn't matter if it was like, you know, half, second exposure or one thousands of a second. It was just asked what dad told me. And it seriously took me probably four or five years to realize that I wasn't the, I didn't have to stay between those two f-stops. And, and so it was pretty funny that, you know, he had such a minimal knowledge of photography and and then I went to college to be a business major. And the first year I decided to work at the school newspaper, and it just, you know, I shot a couple of sporting events, but I wasn't really that interested in it. So I kind of quit. And I just kinda went out my business degree and then junior year of college at Ripon college and ripping Wisconsin I walked by our art gallery and there was a photojournalism show being put up.
Scott Stranzzante:
And, and we, there was an opening night with the photographer. His name was Paul Gero, who was a Chicago Tribune photographer at the time. And I walked in and I saw his work and it was, it was like a photo story of an old, I remember a lot of pictures and this was, you know, 35, 40 years ago. And, you know, it was a story on an old priest that was all hunched over. There was a photo from St. Francis, the sales high school football game, which was right by where I grew up. And, you know, there were a couple other photos. And for some reason I was like, yes, this is what I want to do with my life. This is what I want to do with my career. So I walked over to Paul and, you know, really kind of said, Mr.
Scott Stranzzante:
Jero I want to do what you do. You know, I kind of was expecting him to give me the secret recipe of how to become a photographer, you know? And he was kinda like, well, you know, you need to find your own path. And I was like, how am I going to find my own path? I'm in the middle of Wisconsin? And it was not like cows and bars up here, you know? And, and so he kind of said, well, when I was at Ripon, I went to an urban studies program in Chicago and I had an internship at Donnelley publishing. So I was like, okay, I'll do that. So even though I grew up in Chicago, I went my first semester, senior year and spent the semester in Chicago. And I ended up getting an internship at the city of Chicago photo department when Harold Washington, the first African mirror of Chicago was in office.
Scott Stranzzante:
And it was amazing that photo department, they had like six or seven staff photographers. They were just, they just were one, like they had so many great skills and great content to shoot, and they didn't really let me shoot much. I think they let me go off two days and actually take photographs. But most of the time I was making prints for them or cutting their negatives. And so it was just for me, my first real experience at actual photo journalism. And so then I went back to Richmond my second year and finished off my arts and business major. There was no photo classes at Ripon. And then I got out of college and, you know, naively sent out a resume, a cover letter and like some bad art photos and, and sports photos from the seats to all the newspapers in the Midwest.
Scott Stranzzante:
I sent it to the Tribune, the Sun-Times the Madison newspaper, the Milwaukee journal Sentinel you know, and a couple other smaller papers. And, and one guy from the Milwaukee journal earth parts wrote me and said, Hey, you want to come up and show me your work? And I was like, absolutely. So I drove up to Milwaukee and an urban, another photographer looked at my work and he was like, Oh, you know, you know, it really kindly was like, you have, looks like you have a really good eye. You know, you just need some more experience. You know, here's the name, John H Y T is a Pulitzer prize, winning photographer in Chicago. He teaches a class at Columbia college. Why don't you give him a call and take his class? And I'm like, okay. So call John. And, you know, amazingly John like picks up, you know, the number I call and I didn't know who he was at the time.
Scott Stranzzante:
But they could look them up. John H White's amazing. And so I talked to John he's like, well, tell me about what you, what your you've done so far. And I gave him a little background of what I've photographed. He's like, you know, you can't really take my class unless you have a portfolio. So you're going to have to take photo one and dark room one at Columbia college. I'm like, okay. So I enrolled in Columbia college all the time. I was still working from my dad at his tire dealership. And I got halfway through this photo one class, and all of a sudden I got a call from a tiny newspaper called the daily Calumet. It was on the Southeast side of Chicago. It was actually the, the neighborhood newspaper of where I grew up. And they had me come in and they asked me two questions and they said, Scott, do you know how to use a flash?
Scott Stranzzante:
And I was like, yes. And I didn't, you know, and then said, Scott, you not a roll your own film. I'm like, yes, I do. You know, and, and back in the day, they would buy bulk bulk rolls of 35 millimeter film. And you'd have to go in the dark room and roll them into the little 36 exposure kind of containers. And so they hired me. It was like a part-time 16 hours a week at $4 and 25 cents. Yep. That was golden. And I told my, my dad and my grandfather that I was going to be a professional photographer. And my dad's like, Oh, thank God. You know, my grandfather's like, I'm disinheriting you. You know, it was just like, it was so opposite. My grandfather was so mad. I wasn't taking over the family business. And my, my dad was like, Oh, please just go, let's go do something you love, you know, don't be stuck in his family business.
Scott Stranzzante:
Like I was. And so you know, I started at the daily Calumet and, and was, you know, learned by making mistakes. And I thought I was good. I had this, you know, you know, confidence, but I really wasn't looking back at the images. And, and luckily that first year I you know, kind of learn some stuff. And then that paper got bought out by a bigger paper and it kind of sent me on my way kind of step laddering up. And, and so it was kind of one of those things where I kind of fell forward a lot. And, and throughout my whole career, I've always been open to things coming and taking advantage of situations and, and not really doing much pre-planning, but it definitely was, you know, luck that I kind of got into the business and was in the right place at the right time. And, and, and a lot of people helped me on the way. And, and so, you know, that's kind of a little bit of a, you know, the whole journey of me getting into the business,
Raymond Hatfield:
But you bet you make it sound as if like, Oh, it just kind of happened. And yet here you are, you know, as I mentioned in your intro there, like you're very accomplished this. Isn't something that you just kind of do, because this is what you fell into. You clearly strive for greatness to be able to capture images that that you love and that you find compelling. And now today, obviously, you know, 35 years later, you have the technical knowledge, you can go out there and you can shoot what you visualize. Right. But I still want to go back to those early days. Right. And when you had the camera and, you know, your dad says, keep it between eight and 11 and then your gold, not all of those photos, as you said, you know, they're not going to turn out good. Right. What was it that kinda kept you going, because today is a lot of photographers get photos that they're not immediately happy with the camera's fault, or, you know, they get very bored of it easy, or they get easily bored of it. How do you, how did you push forward in, in, in, in learn?
Scott Stranzzante:
Well, I think a lot of it was naive a Tay because I think one of the advantages I had, and, and I'm not denigrating photo J schools or photography instruction and just things. I didn't realize that I wasn't good, you know, like I didn't go to Western Kentucky or Ohio university or some college that was a photojournalism factory and have a professor tell me your badge. This sucks. This is horrible. This is no good. Don't do this. Don't do that. You can't do this. You know? And, and so I wasn't raised photographically in a negative way. And I think a lot of the problems with portfolio reviews and photo schools is that it's kind of like they see your work and they criticize it. And some people that, that really motivates them me know when I'm criticized my role and a little ball, you know?
Scott Stranzzante:
So I think if I would have been exposed to people credit critiquing my work at an early age, or probably wouldn't have you know, kind of thrive because, you know, to get on the psychologist's couch I was the youngest of three kids. My sisters, you know, were a little bit of rebels. My parents didn't pay much attention to me because I was a good kid. I just kind of follow the rules and, and, you know, did my homework and got A's and things like that. And so I didn't get a lot of attention. And so when I finally found something photography where people who weren't knowledgeable about it, but saw my work and thought it was good, that just really kind of fueled my fire, but so I'm good at something here's something I'm good at. And so it was kind of, you know, that drive to create work that people like, you know, really helped me along with, you know, people encouraging me and, you know, you know, I did have some sort of natural ability added, I don't know how that works exactly how you become good at something.
Scott Stranzzante:
And other people become good at something else, but I did definitely, it's something that works for me. And I think of it, you know, especially in photojournalism, it's a lot about personality. It's a lot about coming into someone's life, making them comfortable with you quickly, and then kind of being, be able to kind of be involved with their life, but also step back and let them live their lives. And, and so that, you know, it was kind of something that I already kind of had because I just, you know, always been an observer. I've always been a little bit shy and quiet, and I've always just watched the world and even up to now, unless I'm really comfortable with people I'll be very quiet and, and just kind of, you know, not really involve myself, but if someone involves me in a conversation, I'm more than happy to, to, to talk, but, you know, I'm not someone who kind of interjects myself into a situation.
Scott Stranzzante:
So I think, you know, one of the things that really helped me also early on was I studied other people's photography and I studied my own photography. You know, I learned that I would look at my own work and now I'd say, well, where does my, you know, I didn't have this, this kind of language then at the time I didn't know what I was doing, but now I know what I was doing was I would kind of look at an image and say, where does my eye go? You know, what, you know, does it go to something it should go to, or is it going to a flaw in the image? And, and, you know, I learned that the brightest spot of an image as you do where your eye goes first, and, and then you can kind of learn to control in your photography in a split section, split second, you know, how to compose an image that is pleasing to look at that allows the viewer to enter into it, look at it, kind of spends some time move around in a very kind of, you know, easy way and then kind of exit out of the photo.
Scott Stranzzante:
And, and I think I learned that by studying the masters of photography and art, and just kind of soaking in what they, and then not really to copy what they did, but just to kind of be inspired by it. Back when I started out there was two major photo contests in the photojournalism world. There was world press photo, and there was pictures of the year, which was based at university of Missouri in Columbia. And you would enter the contest and win or lose, and I would always lose. They would send you a book of the winners that, you know, at the, you know, every year. And when I got that POI book, I would just go page to page through it all and study all the photographs. And, you know, it wasn't the best cause sometimes I would see, Oh, first place sports action this year was a rodeo photo.
Scott Stranzzante:
So I'd be like, Oh, I need to shoot more rodeo. And then the next year, you know, first place in news was, you know, it was a fire and I'd be like, Oh, wait, I need to get a scanner and see more fires, you know? And so, you know, it was kinda, I was kind of chasing things, but it also gave me kind of a little bit of direction and things like that. So you know, it, it definitely, you know, was a multitude of things. I think that helped me grow as a, as a person and a photographer. And, you know, at the time, you know, I was shooting black and white film and developing them in a dark room and making my own prints. And that, that I think is, was educational at the time. Because I really, through my 35 years in the business, it's amazing technologically where things have come from, you know, it's come from rolling my own film, black and white in a dark room to now, you know, photographing, you know, with my phone sometimes and putting a photo on Instagram and having someone in Japan like at one minute later, you know, it's just like compared to when I started out, the only time you'd see my photographs is if you subscribe to my small paper or I brought it to your house and showed it to you.
Scott Stranzzante:
So, you know, it, it, it's amazing kind of how my career has spanned this technological leap, but at the same time, I am really not interested in technology. I'm not a camera gear head. I'm not someone who you know, I've been lucky to have the best photo equipment because I work at big newspapers and they supply to you. But I don't like getting a new camera because I think the key for anyone who's a photographer is you have to learn your camera well enough that you forget, forget it, you know? So you have to know how the settings work to be able to kind of change the settings on the fly, but just to forget about the technology of it and just concentrate on making images. And, and that's why, you know, you always hear these people, Oh, the new Sony is coming out.
Scott Stranzzante:
I need to get that because that's going to make me now, I'm going to be a good photographer. Oh, wait, no Canon. Now it's a new mirrorless. I got to get that. Cause now I'm gonna be photographer and it's not, you know, it's the same thing about like, you know, a chef where it doesn't matter, usually what they're cooking on. Of course they probably have the best stoves or the best ovens or the best, you know, things, but they could get an easy bake oven and make magic out of it just because, you know, they kind of understand the process and it's the same thing with photography where, you know, the gear doesn't really matter, you know, of course, you know, coming from someone who has the best gear, but
Raymond Hatfield:
Yeah, I know. Yeah. That's always a, that's always an argument that the new photographers have. It's like, well, it's easy to say that when you have the best gear, but you didn't always have the best gear. And as you just said, you know, I mean, when you started 35 years ago, you had to roll your own film. You didn't just go to the store and buy a roll. Yeah. It was much cheaper to buy that role of 400 foot and then just roll it yourself and make a bunch of canisters
Scott Stranzzante:
Early digital cameras were horrible. Nikon D1H and D2H and you know, just tiny, tiny, tiny file sizes. You know, here's your two 56 megabyte card. This'll this'll last year, thousands of images, you know, it is crazy.
Raymond Hatfield:
That's funny. I was just thinking the other day when I when I I told you before we started recording that I went to school for cinematography and I had graduated in 2008, right. When there was a writers strike and an actor strike. So there was absolutely no work going on. And I thought I gotta buy a DSLR to keep my skills sharp. And I was so excited because I think they had just came out with like a two gigabyte CF card. And I was like, I don't think I'll ever have to buy another card. How many phones can you fit on that thing? This is literally like a hundred rolls of film on this little two gigabyte. That's fantastic. Going back to when you first started at the, you said it was the daily Calumet, is that right? Yes. Yes. So when you had started the daily Calumet it sounded like you took the job, not being fully confident that you could do the job, but that you were willing to learn with that real-world experience, which I love, and I don't think that enough people actually do that and, you know, take that leap of faith.
Raymond Hatfield:
But surely there were some things that you had to learn on your own when it came to photography. What were some of those earliest challenges that you had when you showed up in situations that you were just kind of thrown into? Was there anything that you weren't prepared for, that you had to figure out?
Scott Stranzzante:
Yeah, well, like I, I only wanted to be a photographer at the time because of sports. I wanted to work for sports illustrated. So, you know, for me, I just wanted to go to the daily Calumet so I could shoot high school, high-class sporting events, you know? And then luckily in one year when we went, it got bought out by the daily South town, which is a bigger paper. Then I was able to shoot professional sporting events, which was crazy. So I had to kind of learn, you know, to photograph other things and, you know, we would have to do, I think my first assignment was go find a photo, go find a feature photo. And I got a snowball fight and I was afraid of people. So I would like literally be shooting from behind bushes, you know, and, and be so afraid to ask someone for their name.
Scott Stranzzante:
And, and so to, to approach someone and say, hi, I'm from the newspaper I took your photo. Can I get your name, but something that still panics me to this day sometimes. And, and so kind of learning to, to not just be an observer, but have to involve myself in someone else's life, a stranger who might say, you know, and that was always traumatic. And, and I also was not very professional that the newspaper it didn't publish on Saturdays. So like, if you would shoot an assignment on Friday, you know, it probably wouldn't make the newspaper at all, or maybe, you know, and so I would sometimes get a couple assignments on a Saturday and I would, I hate to say this, I would just go up to my college, my friends and party, and just blow off the assignments, you know, and then come back on Monday and make some excuse that, Oh, I screwed it up in the dark room and they'd be like, okay, well, accidents happen.
Scott Stranzzante:
You know, and it's still like, I didn't have a great professional work ethic at the time. I was more interested in continuing my college years. But, you know, once I got to the daily South town a year later, that that went out the window, I couldn't do that anymore. So I guess, you know, that first year was a really low stress environment. The newspaper was kind of, and it was all young people my age anyways. And so we weren't that concerned about the quality, but, you know, the funny thing was the, the editor who hired me, his name was Bob bong. And you know, and so I always joke that he, you know, he was, you know, on his bong a little bit, too much to hire me. But the, the guy who really helped me was JT Smith. He was the photo editor at the time and he taught me how to use a flash.
Scott Stranzzante:
And he taught me how to roll film. And, you know, he kind of really, you know, he held my hand as I, you know, and, and helped me out on assignments that I really wasn't used to. So it was just kind of learning to be a photo journalist instead of just a sports photographer, I think was my first big transition. And then to actually do a long-term photo story or spend time with a person like that, seriously, I did not get comfortable with that for like at least 12 years, you know, it was like something. When I went to the daily South town, I spent 11 years there and I, I rarely did like any long-term stories. It was mostly just event coverage news events, sports events, and weather photos and things like that. So, you know, it wasn't until the late nineties, when I really got interested in actually spending time with one person and doing a long-term story. And, and that is, you know, I think was the next big leap in my career was just going from being a photographer to a photo journalist and then to a storyteller. And, and that kind of, you just kind of takes time. At least for me, it did some other people are more comfortable spending time with strangers, but you're now it's something I can do easily, but in the beginning, just kind of being timid was something I really had to overcome.
Raymond Hatfield:
Well, let's, let's go ahead and talk about that then, because as you know the reason why I reached out to you, I was actually introduced to you through a friend of mine Vinnie Puglisi, do you know? Yeah. Okay. Yes, yes, yes. So we were talking and he was talking about some of the great photographers who he known and he brought up you, and I remember obviously your name stood out to me and I was like, I wrote down your name. And I was like, I got to get them on the podcast one day. So I just very recently checked out and was like, Oh my gosh, your long-term project called common ground. It, it blew me away. It stood out to me. So before we dive into that can you give me like the 30,000 foot overview elevator pitch of what common ground is before we, before we dive deeper into it?
Scott Stranzzante:
Okay. So common ground is a decades long study of a piece of land 35 miles Southwest of Chicago and a town called Lockport, Illinois. And when I first started photographing there in 1994 the land was a cattle farm and it was owned by Harlow CAG Lynn, who at the time was 71 years old. And his wife, Jean, who was 62 at the time, they didn't have any children. They were I think it was 135 acre ranch. They had 40 head of Angus beef cattle, and they raised the cattle and sold them to McDonald's for hamburgers. And so the story started out just as, as me hanging out with the CAG wins. 1994, I was assigned at the daily cell town to photograph Tina and Harlow for two hours. It was a story and people who raised animals and Homer township, which was the kind of rural community outside of the daily South town kind of coverage area.
Scott Stranzzante:
And so I went in the afternoon and Harlow was tending to his cattle and Jean was there feeding them. And, and so I just kind of hung out for a couple hours and, you know, just made the same photographs I did every other day. Just a very quick glimpse of what someone does not who they are, but what they do. And for some reason, as I was leaving the farm, being a city kid, I just kind of reflexively said, Hey, can I come back and visit again? You know, can I come back and take some more photographs, not for the newspaper, just because, you know, this is a really interesting place because the farm was, was ramshackle. The barns were falling down, you know, Harlow was seven years old, you know, just kind of was just out there throwing hay around. It was just amazing to me.
Scott Stranzzante:
And so they're like, sure, come by whenever you want. And, and so over the next, maybe two, three years I would go visit Jean Harlow. And most times I would show up on the farm. They'd be like, Oh, Scott's here. And so Harlow would come in and we'd sit in the kitchen and Jean would make dessert. And I would sit there and just kind of chat with Jean and Harlow, and then maybe I'd take a couple photographs and then I would leave. And, and then my daughter was born in 1995 when she was a couple years old, I would bring out to the farm to shore the cows. And there were a lot of farm cats. And, and so it was just kind of like, it was a family friend, you know, and, and I started, you know, you know, not really it almost, I stopped photographing really.
Scott Stranzzante:
It was just kind of, they were just my friends and I would go fish it. And occasionally I'd take photographs. But then in 1998 I got a job at a paper in Joliet, Illinois, which was a suburb of big suburb of Chicago. And they had a newspaper, the Herald news, which was one of the great photojournalism papers of the time. There was a string of papers around the Chicago area and Joliet, Aurora LJ and Waukegan. It was called the Copley newspapers. And for some reason they became this photojournalism hotbed, and all these young photographers would come and do great work there and move on to bigger papers. And I, wasn't a young photographer then I was in my mid, mid thirties. But I was, you know, kind of a late bloomer, I guess, in the photojournalism world. So I got hired in Joliet and when I was the daily South town, we didn't do any photo stories, but at the Herald news day one, they're like, what photo stories you're going to work on?
Scott Stranzzante:
What ideas do you have? Do you have any ideas for long-term photo stories? And I'm like I know this farm couple, you know, and maybe I could, you know, and I could do a story in this farm couple. And they're like, okay, you know, kind of like straight another farm story, you know, because in photojournalism, you know, going to a farm and photographing a farm is just like, you know, photo one Oh one, everyone does it. And so in 98, so this was, you know, I, I started, you know, I went to visit Jean Harlow and I was like, Hey Jean, I work at this newspaper and they went to do a story on you, or I want to photograph you for a story. So when I come visit next time, could we maybe not sit down in the kitchen and just eat and talk?
Scott Stranzzante:
Can I, maybe you just actually photograph you doing your life. Okay, that's fine. And so then I, then in 1998, I really started seriously photographing them and, and Harlow at the time, you know, his body started deteriorating and he had carpal tunnel syndrome. He had asthma and, you know, he was really struggling. Jean had just gone through about a cancer and so she wasn't slowed a little bit. And so you could really tell him the photographs, especially with Harlow, just how difficult the job was. And, and there were rumors of farms in the area were being sold. So there are rumors that, that Harlow was going to sell his farm at some point. And so the story was kind of the days in the life of a cattle farmer, but also you know, disappearing family farms and suburban sprawl were kind of issues that were kind of being brought into the story.
Scott Stranzzante:
And so I just kind of photographed Harland Gene's daily life. It ran a couple of times in the newspaper nothing much, but for some reason I decided that I wanted to retain ownership of the images, which is something in newspapers. The newspaper owns all the photos you take, they have the copyright. And, but for some reason, I don't know how this happened. I decided that, you know, I was going to work on this story on my free time. And at the time I was a single dad, my kids were like six and four. And so the only time I could really go was on a Monday when I was off on Monday and my kids were in daycare and kindergarten or whatever. And so I pretty much would just visit the farm every Monday. And I allowed the newspaper to kind of use my images whenever they wanted for stories, but it was kind of my personal project.
Scott Stranzzante:
And you know, as time went on, they did sell their farm and they got offers from people. And so I started photographing them, leaving the farm and, and auctioning off their cattle. And the subdivision developer that bought their farm actually started building the subdivision around their farm while they were still farming. And so, so their farm was kind of shrinking and like the model homes were way off in one corner and they were leveling off all the top soil and everything and other parts of it. And so by 2001, while they were still on the farm, I switched to the Chicago Tribune. I got a job there. I had one national newspaper photographer of the year for my work in 2000, which one of the stories was on Jean and Harlow. You know, and so the Chicago Tribune hired me. And so when I got to this Congress Tribune and I said, Hey, I'm, I've been working on this story for the past seven years.
Scott Stranzzante:
I was wondering, you know, if I can retain ownership, you know, I would like to continue to work on it here. And so then if the paper's greed, and so then, you know, I photographed those final days on the farm and on July 2nd, 2002 Jean Harlow, you know, there was supposed to leave the farm months earlier, but because they needed to kind of knock down their house so they can continue to build the subdivision, but it just took Jean and Harlow forever to get out of there. So the subdivision, the developer was getting really anxious. So they pretty much said, okay, if you're you, you have to be out by July 2nd. If not, we're going to just knock your house down with you in it. You know, of course they were just, they were weren't serious, but they were, they were serious. And so July 2nd, Jean and Harlow are scrambling around their house.
Scott Stranzzante:
You know, they're finally, they're packing up the last of their belongings. You know, one of their cats runs up in the attic and hides and they had, they had to leave it behind. And so, yeah, so Jean and Harlow walk out of the house and Harlow goes, one way, Jean goes to the other Harlow, sits down on this big felled tree that was in the front yard and they just start tearing the house down immediately. And so Harlow's like slumped on this log with the house, just being torn down behind them. And it was just like, I pre-visualize this moment for years because I knew it was going to happen eventually, but I never realized it would come together like it did. And it was probably the, the image favorite is maybe the wrong word, but it's the most compelling image I think I've ever made in my career was just this shot of, you know, this old farmer, you know, the house he had lived in for the past 80 years being torn down behind him.
Scott Stranzzante:
And so at that point I photographed for eight years. I thought it was a complete story. I thought I was done. It was just, you know, it was, this was my story on Jean and Harlow. And as, as time went on I, I would go back and I would visit the subdivision. It was, was being built. And Jean and Harlow bought a new farm, not to farm, but to just live on. And they built a new house and they leased the land to another farmer. So they were living maybe two miles to two hours, South of Chicago on another farm. And I would visit, visit them occasionally, but I stopped photographing them because I didn't, for some reason, didn't find a compelling them just kind of being re but then for some reason, this subdivision was interesting to me.
Scott Stranzzante:
So I was stopped by and photograph there, there was a project called day in the life of America was, was they hired 10 photographers from every 50 of all the 50 States to photograph the States. And it was a week in the life of America. I can't remember what it was, but anyways, yeah, I went to the subdivision and photographed at the subdivision for this project. And I had this idea, well, maybe if I found a family in the subdivision and started documenting their life, somehow I could tie it in with the farms, you know, and, and just kind of, you know, the, kind of the progression of this land in suburban Chicago. And so I ended up meeting a young couple and she, the woman was pregnant and the, the story of Jean and Harlow leaving the farm and everything had been published in Chicago Tribune magazine, and this couple had seen it and they were like, Oh, really?
Scott Stranzzante:
Oh yeah, that's great. You know, and I said, can I document you for, you know, for this, for the continuation of the story and they agreed, but then I never went back. You know? So for some reason, it just, you know, I don't know if I got busy or it just didn't seem right to me. And so, you know, Harlow and Jean left in 2002 in 2002 became 2003 beginning of 2004, 2005. And, you know, I just kind of never really, you know, kind of went on the back burner and I just kind of forgot about the project. And then in 2007, I was giving a talk at a, a photo college called college. You do page in suburban Chicago. And it was a photo class, you know, a mixture of teenagers and adults, you know, it was just kind of a regular, just kind of photo class for anyone who wanted to take it.
Scott Stranzzante:
And it came in and I showed my photojournalism. And the final thing I showed was about 40 photos from the CAG one story. And, and, you know, I ended it with a couple shots of, of the model homes and a couple of their homes being built. And, and when my presentation was over, a woman raised her hand and said, hi, my name is Amanda. I live in that subdivision. I'm like, Oh, really? She's like, yeah. And at that point I was like, this is, you know, this is a coming to me, you know, this is the story returning to me. And so I said, can I come visit you and photograph you? And she was like, absolutely. And so I showed up on there called the sack. They lived on this cul-de-sac called cinnamon court. And they lived at the end of the cul-de-sac and Amanda married to a man named ed.
Scott Stranzzante:
They had four children, three of them were triplets, and they had a dog that looked like a cow, big black dog. And so the first day I was there it was a cul-de-sac wide Easter egg conch. So every family and their kids were out there. And, and so I just kind of said, hi, my name's Scott I'm from Chicago Tribune. I did a story on the farm that used to be, you know, where the subdivision is now. And, and I want to do a photo story on this call to sack. That was my first idea was I'm going to do the entire cul-de-sac. So I was wondering if I could just come and photograph on the cold sack whenever I can and, and the entire thing. Yep. Great, great, great, great. So I could just show up at any hour, you know, photograph people's kids running around without being thought of as a creep.
Scott Stranzzante:
And so, so then I just started, and I really had no idea how it was gonna kind of work with the farm part of the story. So I think this is my second visit. Ed and Amanda's oldest son, Ben was playing in the yard with this cousin, CJ, and they had a jump rope and they were wrestling on the ground and it kind of like tying each other up with this jump rope. And, and so at the time my process was I would go shoot for three, four hours and come back and I would edit the photos and put them in a folder because the first half of the farm story was on film. And then when I started shooting in the subdivision at that point, I just had digital cameras. So it became digital. And so I had this stockpile of maybe 500 farm images.
Scott Stranzzante:
So that day I got back and I started editing my subdivision photos, and I found the photo of Ben and CJ wrestling with the jump rope. And it reminded me of a photo I'd taken of Harlow wrestling with a day old calf that had gotten loose. And he was trying to tie it up with a rope. And he fell down in the cap, was on the ground and the rope. And it was very similar to the photo of Ben and CJ. And so I decided to put the two photos together as a pairing also called a diptych. And at that point I'm like, yeah, this is how I can tell the story of this land. I can, I can have a photo from the farm and one from the subdivision and put them together as a pairing and kind of compare and contrast life on this same piece of land, to different types of life.
Scott Stranzzante:
And so at that point, I was able to put together like five pairings immediately. And so then every time I would go to the subdivision, after that, I would either see something that reminded me of the farm, or I would just look through my images from that day back through my farm photos and try to find things that were compared and, and everything happened with serendipity. There was no like, Hey Amanda, can you stand here and do this? And like that, you know, it was just me observing things happening. And I think there were two photos that I kind of had a pre visualization of one. I had an aerial of the farm, and then I did an aerial of the subdivision. And then I had this one photo from the second floor of Gene's house of Jean from their farmhouse. And then I like one day went up and shot out of the second floor when Amanda was, was mowing the lawn.
Scott Stranzzante:
But besides those two photos, there was really nothing. When I went out there looking for a specific image, but every time I would go, I would get five or six new pairings and five or six new pairings. And so this was a March of 2007. And I then started putting these things together. And, and enough Tober of that year, I went and spoke at this workshop called the mountain workshops in Kentucky, where they bring a bunch of students in and they do photo stories. And I showed like 30 diff ticks to this people. And no one had ever seen these this work before. And people were like, Holy cow, this is amazing. This, wow, this is a great story. And people were like, you got to show it to this person. You got to show at this person. And this one guy was there.
Scott Stranzzante:
And he said, I'm Chad Stevens. He said, you got to show this to my boss, Brian storm. And Brian is this photo genius who works at media storm, or he found his media storm and it was a video company. And so he brought me to New York and they ended up doing a seven minutes kind of video piece on the project. And then I had a couple friends that I'd known from, I went on this photo tour after I won photographer of the year with a national geographic photographer. And I called her and pitched it to national geographic. And she said, well, it's too specific for national geographic, but we have this new feature called photo journal where we give four pages to a photographer in the magazine to show a project they've been working on or a long-term project. And, and so in the February, 2008 edition national geographic, I had four pages from my common ground story.
Scott Stranzzante:
And, and so it was just crazy how once I made that diptych connection and it just kind of totally took off. And it was really cute, like in February or, you know, I went to the grocery store with the grape and hops family and little Katie, one of the triplets picked up national geographic and put it on the register and told the lady behind the thing I'm in this, and here you are Swedish or you are. And so it was just really, really kind of cool. And after that, you know, I worked in the subdivision collecting images and making diptychs for, you know, maybe three more, two, three more years later before I turned it into a book. And, and I did a Kickstarter campaign and raised a good amount of money. And then you know, published it as a book.
Scott Stranzzante:
And, and that, you know, for, for me as a photographer, a book is like the Holy grail. Like, that's what you want. You want to have a book because it's, you know, it'll last forever and, you know, kind of it's, it's, you know, it's not as fleeting as the internet or the daily newspaper. It's something that is very tangible. And so, so, you know, it was just one of those things where I had no idea where the project was going and it just kind of built up momentum as it, as it rolled along. And, and, you know, when I first visited Jean Harlow in 1990, you know, I never imagined it would be anything. And then it ended up being, you know, a kind of a career making project. And, and, you know, it's definitely for me, something that I still continue to do now that nothing at that scale, but I do, you know, collect images like in different ways that can, in the late 2000 tens, I started taking street photography with my daughter's iPhone, with the hips automatic app.
Scott Stranzzante:
And then I got, you know, at the time I had a Blackberry with the Tribune, so I didn't have an iPhone. So I had to borrow my daughters and I had bought my own iPhone. So then ever since then, I've been doing iPhone street photography. And that turned into my second book, which is called shooting from the hip, which is a collection of black and white street photography images from around America. And, you know, and, and the images I'm collecting now, I've been doing the same style photography at the Oakland Coliseum, which is this kind of old decrepit baseball stadium, the Oakland A's play at. And so since 2014 I've been collecting images. Every game I go to, I will, I will take certain amount of images or I'll just go and photograph the entire game. And, and so that I hope will be a book someday.
Scott Stranzzante:
And, and then I also, in the past two years, I've started doing kind of fine art, photography, slow shutter speed, ocean images. And you know, I call that the Pacific series, cause it's all the Pacific ocean. So at some point I hope that's another book. So it's just something where, you know, I have my day job at the newspaper, which I love, but it's weird in my career. If you ask most people, you know, what, what do you know of Scottsdale's auntie's work if I go common ground, and then they'd be like, Oh, he does street photography and stuff. And, and, and really none of that was from, you know, my newspapers. It was all kind of things that I've kind of decided to pursue. And, and yeah, they, they know I work at newspapers and I have some quality of work that they enjoy, but it's not what jumps in first.
Scott Stranzzante:
And so, you know, I've always, you know, for some reason, you know, decided to like, not only have it be a career, but also to be my hobby and also to just kind of have fun with it. And my outlet has always been, you know, you know, putting things on Instagram now or Twitter or Facebook, and that's been just a great you know, kind of evolution of sharing a photography, but, but still at the end of it, it kind of seems like all my personal words always is pointing towards doing a book. And, and it's so easy nowadays to do a book you know, common ground. I made a lot of money on the Kickstarter. So we did 3000 copies, which would probably be too many. And then when I did the shooting from the hip book I did a presale online and the presale paid for a thousand books.
Scott Stranzzante:
And so my publisher in Chicago, Warren winter, you know, he fabulous, you know, he, he did everything. He, you know, he found the, the printer in Hong Kong and he, you know, took care of all the design and everything and, and things like that. And I think he's kind of been struggling in the pandemic. And so his, I don't think it's production businesses doing too well who's publishing business. So the next books I do, I'm not sure if Warren will be able to do them. So I'm just going to have to kind of find another way to do them, but, you know, they'll get done at some point, even if they're just a run of a hundred, you know, because it's just kind of the process of it. I enjoy. And it's something that I've continued to do. So, so, so we'll see how that goes.
Scott Stranzzante:
But, you know, once again, I tell young photographers, old photographers, whatever, if they want to do a book, you know, that people really enjoy, especially your young photographer, all you really have to do is, you know, say you live in a small town or a big town, just go and take photographs of one block or just do the front of stores or something, and then make prints of these and put them away for 30 years and then bring it back out. People be like, these are amazing. It looks like, because now I'll see photos from the seventies and it doesn't matter how bad they are. It was a photograph. They were like, that's amazing. Look at that. Look at that. So it's like time. Yeah. It really makes a way of improving all photographs. And, and I wish, you know, there were a lot of photographs that I never made when I was younger that I should have made and would have been amazing to have, or I just threw them in the garbage, you know, but it's you know, you know, you kind of think, Oh my God, I'm, I'm an amateur photographer.
Scott Stranzzante:
I can never have a book. I could never do a project and wouldn't be interested in, and it's not true. It's like, you know, follow your own voice, follow what interests you. Because if it excites you, it just looks at other people and, and it doesn't have to be anything grand or big, or it doesn't have to be following, you know, cattle farmers for eight years, you know, it could just be, you know, just what you see in your daily life. And but you have to be very kind of organized with it. You have to, you know, photograph it and, and, you know, edit it and do it over time and it'll evolve and get better. You know, like my Pacific series fine art photography is evolving as I speak, you know, I first did it in January 19, January, 2019, and I, you know, long lens, slow shutter speed photography of just waves.
Scott Stranzzante:
And I was just concentrating on the waves and the patterns and the impressionistic movement of them. And then in the past year, I've started incorporating surfers and people on the beach into it. And then now I've kind of gone this right turn, where I've started to do the same slow shutter speed thing at sporting events. I was at the pebble beach Pro-Am yesterday, I mean, on Sunday. And I was at a sh golden state warriors game last night. And I started playing around with doing slow shutter speed. So, you know, so that'll be another kind of side project. I'll just kind of work on over the next year and kind of collect and just see where it goes and maybe it'll turn into nothing, but, but for me, it's just, you know, being someone who's you four decades into this profession, I continue to want to do things that excite me and, you know, kind of still have an evolution and not just be shooting the same photos I've for year after year after year, which could be successful. But for me, it doesn't interest me to just kind of become a caricature of myself. I just want to keep expanding and trying new things and different things. And, you know, I just I'm as excited about photography now, as I was, when, when I first got my first job at the daily Calumet.
Raymond Hatfield:
So many things to unpack there, how you broke down, obviously, I mean, the entire progression of how common ground came to be, and then obviously there at the end, talking about, you know, how to even start your own a long-term project, because that's something that I've always had an affinity towards these long-term projects. Just a few about a month ago, I guess my mom sent me, she was, she lives in Arizona currently, and she sent me a bunch of old photographs that she had in a box. And I mean, some of them were from my parents' wedding. You know, they got married in the seventies and I remember looking at those photos and thinking to myself, there was nothing fancy about these photos when they were taken. They were just simply you know, here's, what's happening in front of my camera, but today, I mean, it's, it's the, it's the clothing, it's the cars it's you know, how people look that make those photos so interesting.
Raymond Hatfield:
And I love that perspective because there's so many times that, you know, we go to start a long-term project and a month in or two months in, it feels like where's this going? You know, like, am I doing the right thing? Am I doing the wrong thing? So I appreciate you sharing some ideas, you know, even just on your own block, photographing storefronts and who knows what it could turn into. So you don't even have to have like, like an amazing story because you don't know how it's going to end anyway. So you might as well just start with something. Does that sound about, right?
Scott Stranzzante:
Yeah, exactly. Like you, you could even do something like, you know, photograph your kid's bedroom once a year, you know, from when they were born. So like when they're 30 or 40, you know, and wouldn't that be amazing just to see, you know, every year, you know, or you can just photograph the inside the door, open up your refrigerator once a year, over a 30 or 40 year span, you know, it's like just things that, you know, you're, you're, you're so used to, and, and I think that's a struggle sometimes too, is that you get so used to your surroundings, that they don't become interesting anymore. And that has been, something has been a challenge in the past year with the pandemic, is that so many things have changed and we've kind of adapted them to as normal, like last night I was looking at the warriors game and all of a sudden it just looking at everyone with a mask on, on the bench of a basketball game, which is so weird.
Scott Stranzzante:
And, you know, like I did a quick little photo story. Then the last year on, on the, not a folk story, it was an essay just on the social distancing six foot signs that are being placed on sidewalks around San Francisco. And so I spent two days, I just walked around and, and every single social distancing thing was different. You know, some of them were just a piece of blue tape. Some of them were very decorative. Some had you know, said Merry Christmas with a reindeer out of it. Some of them were just like words and tape, you know, and, and, you know, Cardiay had these gold leaf paws, cat laws, you know, and, and so just over two days, I collected like 14 different you know, of these social distancing things. And I've been walking by them for months and months, and months, and months, and just totally ignoring them.
Scott Stranzzante:
And all of a sudden, one day I'm like, wait, I should document this. This is interesting. This is different this in two years, these might not exist anymore. And so just kind of, you know, we adapt so quickly and we adjust to our surroundings that things that were unique are not unique anymore. And so just to kind of keep that, you know, that wonder about daily life and just kind of noticing things and, you know, it's, so, you know, just, there's so many things that you can do that would be just so simple, but you just, you never think of doing them. And I'm the same way. You know, there are a lot of things that I'm like, Oh, duh, I'll see someone to come up with an idea. And I'm like, that's so brilliant. And so simple. Why didn't I think of that? And so I was like, just kind of, you know, and you don't have to, like, I'm always constantly trying to churn them out, you know, just, you know, if, if there's not a daily pressure to work at a newspaper, it's like, you know, you really don't need the whole bunch of em.
Scott Stranzzante:
And, and I think turning the camera on your family is the easiest place to start. And, you know, and even turning it on yourself, if you want it, you know, I've seen, you know, people do, you know, a photo of themselves once a day for an entire year. And just seeing a slideshow of 365 images of how a person changes in a year. It's just, it's just amazing. You know, I, I just, you know, I think thematically, when I do a photo essay, I like there always has to be one element that is the same. So like, if you can do a portrait series, the, the background, the background should be exactly the same, or you shoot it with the same lens and exposure and f-stop and shutter speed. There's, there's gotta be something formatically holding it together. And then there has to be a difference to it.
Scott Stranzzante:
Like for me, I like doing, I did a photo essay on Liberty tax waivers. I don't know if they have those. Right. And so, so basically that the cool thing was, I don't know where these people get their outfits, but they're all kind of different. They're not the same. And so, like, there's a statue of Liberty and I did it in 2010 in Chicago. And, you know, one person was, you know, statue of Liberty, you know, anyways, it's hard to describe a photograph of words, but anyways, but the thing was, I had like 15 of them, they were the same, but were each them were different in some of them are wildly different. You know, and, and so it just kind of, you know, for me, that interests me is like variations on a theme and repetition is, you know, it's kind of the same thing in a photograph where if you photograph one person is mildly interesting.
Scott Stranzzante:
If you have identical twins, somehow that's amazing. Wow. Look at those identical twins. That's amazing. But if you just photograph one of those twins, it's a person, you know, and so like repetition is something that I always look for in photography and I think is really fascinating and is really a good way to make a compelling image is, you know, you know, if you can have one or something, two is better, you know, so it's, you know, it's like, there's so many little tricks of the trade that you learn after a while. And, and, and just kind of, you know, I've been doing this for so long that I walk into a room for a photo assignment and I'm like, okay, where's the good photograph going to be? And I could, okay, I can go over here, you know, and over here, I know this is going to work and this is going to work.
Scott Stranzzante:
And if I use this lens, that's going to work, but then the way to elevate to a great photo is some sort of serendipity something a moment happens, or the light is especially great, or where there is a great moment and great light, you know? And so, you know, it's definitely, you know, always kind of a puzzle piece, you know, I can always go make a good photograph, but it's going to take something that happens out of my control to elevate it to a great photograph. And you know, and I, you know, if I make one great photograph a year, I'm pleased, you know? And so that's my goal.
Raymond Hatfield:
Well, it seems by the list of your accomplishments, you make more than just one great photograph a year, which you know, I'm very thankful for but going back to long-term projects, one of the questions that I had while going through the book and hearing you talk right there, you know, obviously you showed up your, your assignment to photograph Harlow and Jean, it ended on a day that their house was tore down. But when you went back to cinnamon court to photograph, you know, the, the, the new lives that we're living here on the suburbs, or in the, in this new subdivision, w when, when do you know that it's over? Like, when do you know that you captured the story? When do you know that you have enough?
Scott Stranzzante:
I think you'd get to a point where, you know, it's like 95% complete, you know, and you kind of, if you look at it and you're like, okay, this, this tells a story, this, you know, you're always looking for some sort of arc, you know, a beginning, a middle and an end this great photographer, Carrie nail hall once explained it to me. She said, you know, when you do a photo story, you basically want this, she wants a cat climbs up a tree, someone shakes the tree and the cat gets out of the tree, you know, and let them know like, why that resonated with me, but it just seemed like that was like the three acts of, you know, you want, you know, something happening attention and then a release of that attention. And you know, for me for common ground, you know, it did get to a point where I'm like, okay, this, you know, this has done.
Scott Stranzzante:
And I think it was 14 years. It was 2008, 2009. That's when it kind of was 95% done. But since then, I've continued to photograph I've gone back and visited them many times that have made many more diptychs. And unfortunately ed and Amanda have now divorced. And so Amanda is living in the house with the triplets, and I think maybe Ben might be living there now. I haven't photographed there in a year or so. But Amanda told me that when the kids, the triplets graduate high school, which will be, I think, a year from June, she's going to move out of the house. So I'm gonna go back and photograph them, getting ready to move out of the house and then moving out of the house on the final day. And then it'll be done, it'll be a hundred percent done unless like a circus family moves into that house, you know, or something.
Scott Stranzzante:
But our, you know, but the thing is that, like, that'll be the hard ending for me because then it'll, you know, and then I'll have so many pairings of the grave and Hoffer family moving, leaving the house with the cab twins, leaving their house, and then I'm not sure what I'm gonna do with these photographs. You know, I don't, I'll put them on social media. I don't really have an interest in doing another book on it. But we'll see, you know, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. But and I think this time around, when I might do is try to apply for some grants to finish the project. And I'm not sure, you know, I have such a body of work on it. It should, I should be able to get a grant somewhere to go and photograph it for the final time to fly back to Chicago and spend a week there.
Scott Stranzzante:
But we'll, we'll see. But next time I go visit, I have to, I have to go there sometime soon. It's been, it's been too long since I've photographed there. And, you know, so it's, it's interesting. But yeah, it, it is a good question. Like, sometime you don't know when something is done, but it's kinda like a TV show, you know, when like happy days. So when Fonzie jumped the shark, you know, it's like, it was such a famous thing. Like, okay, this show is done now, you know, there's, they don't have to make any more happy days and, you know, and, and it was funny. It was like, you know, the Fonz literally jumped the shark with his motorcycle and that's where jumping the shark came from. And, you know, so you get to a point where you're like, yeah, there's, I'm not treading on any new ground here.
Scott Stranzzante:
I'm just kind of creating the same images over and over again. And, and, you know, a lot of times when a story ends is because the newspaper publishes it and you kind of stop. And and that's one thing with the CAG one story, because it was published in the Herald news, it was published in the Chicago Tribune and it was in mother Jones magazine, you know? And so I was always finding new outlets, but most stories I do it publishes in my newspaper and then I'm finished with it. And, and that was one of the, the things about being a photo journalist, especially when you do photo stories, that is very difficult is that you come into someone's life and they trust you to photograph them and you spend, you know, a week or a month or eight years photographing them. And then the story is over and then that's it, you know, and then what do you do?
Scott Stranzzante:
You never see them again, do you, do you, you know, do you visit them? You know, and when you have five, 10, 20 stories like this, you can't continually stay in their lives. Cause I've been invited to so many birthday parties and things like that, families I've photographed. And I feel horrible saying, well, I can't, I'm busy. You know, when you know, they, you know, they've given so much to me and I feel like, Oh God, you know, it's, it's, it's this kind of separation anxiety to it because it's a very intimate process to, you know, for someone to be photographed and to, to kind of trust someone and, and, you know, be in their home and things like that. And, you know, I've had a couple of like really difficult things. I think the most difficult one I ever dealt with was I photographed a young family in suburban Chicago.
Scott Stranzzante:
It was a woman and a man, they were married. They had four young kids all under the age of six and the dad was out jogging one day and he got hit by a car and was killed. And so this happened like maybe three or four months before I met the family. And then the community had gotten together to have a big fundraiser for the family. So I was sent down to photograph this family and the fundraiser. And I walked into the house and the first thing I saw was this young girl, like laying on the couch like this and a photo of her dad right next to her. And so I walked in, like, the first thing I did was take a photo of that. And and then, you know, like most newspaper assignments, it was like, well, what do you want me to, what do you want us to do?
Scott Stranzzante:
You know? And, and, you know, she's like, well, how about if we play a game? You know? So there's always this kind of in the beginning of when you do an assignment, like the people you're photographing, they feel like they have to put on a show for you. Like they have to like, well, what can we do? We, well, let's walk to the park, you know? So they'll do something that's not real just because they feel like they have to perform for you. So anyways, so, so I ended up photographing the family for maybe three or four hours and just like the cab one story I knew there was more there. And so I, I, I asked them and then I asked my editors, well, can I continue to photograph this family until the one-year anniversary of the husband's death? And everyone agreed. And so I then went in and I started photographing this family and there were two young there was a boy who was six, I think the girl was five.
Scott Stranzzante:
I'm forgetting some of the names, which is still horrible. The girl who was five, and then there were two younger girls who were three and two. And so when I first arrived, the two young girls, they would come and punch me and they would kick me. And they were like really angry at me. And, you know, and then maybe the third or fourth visit, they just started hugging me and they wouldn't let go. And they just were so attached to me, wait, hold on. Where they kicking me because they felt like you were intruding in their lives. I don't know. I don't know. I imagine no, no, no. I imagine there was like, somehow they connected me with their dad and their dad left and their dad died. And maybe, maybe somehow I would have some male proxy for that anger or whatever. I don't know.
Scott Stranzzante:
I'm just making that up. But then once I spent more time with them and it became really attached to me. And so when it got to be near that one year anniversary of, you know, when I knew the story, we over, I started thinking, Oh, I'm going to leave them. Like, I'm going to be spending all this time with them. They got attached to me and now I'm leaving them. You know, am I, am I reinforcing to these little girls that men leave? You know, that you fall in love or you get attached to some man and then like, they're going to leave, you know? And so like, I'm making the salt on my cat and not on part of it might be true. Part of it might not be true, but it's just like, like it's, you know, for me, it's just it's just, yeah, it's really, it's really a way to, you know, and so, you know, the story ended up being just on the five-year-old girl is called daddy's girl and just kind of focused on her.
Scott Stranzzante:
Cause she was the one that seemed most effected by, by the loss and stuff. And but you know, in Alyssa Blanchet was the mom and the names are coming back to me. This was probably 10 years ago. But then, you know, so I lost touch with the family and then like, you know, on Facebook you can have those Facebook messages that you don't see. They're like kitten messages. Cause you're not a Facebook friend. And sometimes you just do eight months later, you'd be like, see all these messages, you know? Right, right. And so I went on there at one point, like maybe two or three years after, and like message from a woman, a friend of the mom and saying that she had had cancer. And you know, so then I tried to reach out to someone and I don't like, I don't know what happened.
Scott Stranzzante:
I'm like, so the mom die and you know, and like, I couldn't like the phone number I had to work and I still don't know what happened. And it's just like, Oh, that just cares me up. And so, you know, it's like something in photojournalism that, you know, you don't really think about just kind of those connections that you make. And then, then you're gone, you know, it's just, you know, but it's impossible to kind of stay connected with everyone. And, you know, I have my own family and you know, and now I moved to California. And so it's, you know, it's definitely, you know, it's definitely a trade off that you really kind of have to deal with. And, and, you know, I only, you know, I don't know, it's not like like I it's, it's really, I don't know. It's not like, I don't think I need therapy for it.
Scott Stranzzante:
Cause I talk about it a lot, but you know, it, it's definitely something that, you know, you don't think of from journalists, you know, there's a lot of you know, kind of PTSD from photographing Wars and fires and things like that, but it's kind of that kind of separation you get from people that you spend a lot of time photographing. And, you know, I feel guilty too about Jean CAG when, you know, she's losing her Harlow past like I think like five days before his 90th birthday. And that was what would that be? Let me do quick math, 19 years from. So that was probably in 2013. And so Jean is living by herself in her home and I visited her a couple of times, but I haven't visited her since I moved to California, you know, and I, you know, I just feel horrible about that, you know, and, but it's like, you know, she lives in, you know, three hours South of Chicago and I get back to Chicago, I'm busy visiting my family and yeah. And so it's hard to get down to see Jean and, and so, yeah, so like I could probably sit here and name like 10, 12, 15, 20 people that like, Oh, man. I feel horrible. I've lost contact with them. You know,
Raymond Hatfield:
Did we get the idea, you know, that, that part of being a photo journalist, first of all, I'm sure that you weren't taught this, you know, when you first started shooting that like, Hey, this is going to be a heavy thing at times. But also to me, what it sounds like is to be able to do this effectively, you really have to have a lot of empathy to be able to tell somebody's story. And I don't think that, that, I don't think that that is taught enough because I don't think that you can teach that right. Very often it seems like whenever you look at either street photography or, you know, documentary photography, it's very much like here's the technicals of how you do it and here's what you look for. But I don't think I've ever heard of anybody share that side of the story before. And wow. I mean, just myself hearing that. I mean, I feel heavy for that. I can't imagine, you know, what it is that you have to go through. So, you know, thank you for sharing that.
Scott Stranzzante:
Okay. So you locked down cause there there's two types of photography. There's taking photographs and making photographs, you know, and when I do street photography, I'm taking photographs, I'm just walking down the street and I'm taking things. But when, you know, I do a long-term photo story or, you know, someone, you know, like you're making photographs, it's a collaborative effort and you're not taking something you're, you're, you're part of the process, not the whole process. And, and so, you know, it's definitely you know, something where, you know, I'm aware of that and, and it's something that, you know, that's why I think at times I love shooting sports cause I could just, okay, here's a roster, here's the names and numbers. I sit there and I just photograph sports, you know? And I don't have to, I don't have to, you know, put myself out there.
Scott Stranzzante:
Because you, you know, when you do a long-term story, it's a two-way street. You have to share your life for someone to share it back. And you know, you know, if you, if you're someone who does a long-term story, my recommendations, and this is what I do all the time is say, I know I'm going to photograph someone multiple times. When I come in their house, I will sit on the floor. When I talk to them, I'll sit on the floor because I want them to know they're above me. I want them to know that I'm at their service, that I'm not someone who's coming in to stand above them and take their photograph. I want to like both, you know, figure to intervene and literally be below them. And, and so it's something where that's kind of the place I put my, and then I share my life with them. And, you know, you would think with like the CAG, Windsor, the grave, and Hoffer's the photos, I make their real moments. But throughout that process, there's a conversation going on where, you know, the Jean and Harlow situation, they both were hard of hearing. So Harlan would be like, yeah. And she'd be like, what? And I'd be like, Oh, this is what he said. And then Jean and Gail back, and they go heartless, she's at this, you know? And so
Scott Stranzzante:
Now it became this, you'd be this intermediary intermediary, but at the same time you're taking photographs. And you know, and, and so there is no such thing as fly on the wall. Like I'm changing reality just by being there. And so you have to kind of realize, well, what photos am I making that I change reality so much that are no more, no longer reality in which one is like, while I'm there. And this represents a reality that probably would have happened if I wasn't here. You know? And, and so, you know, I can go round and round about the ethics of photo journalism and every photo is a lie type of thing, you know, but at some point, if you're going to do that, you just have to quit because, you know, as a photographer, unless you're, you know, in a duck blind and no one knows you're photographing them, which is what street photography is kind of a time, you know, you're, you're, you're not really photographing reality.
Scott Stranzzante:
And I think, you know, to kind of go to street photography, the reason I liked that is because I know, you know, I photograph literally shooting from the hip. I have my camera at my waist and I'm photographing as I walk. And so people don't know they're being photographed and I'm photographing them in a public place, but I'm also photographing them without their consent. And I know that there's some issues with that and that can be kind of creepy and weird. But for me, it's the purest photography I do because people are not changing what they're doing for me. I'm photographing something that's happening, you know, that would happen if I hadn't walked past. And, and, you know, that's why I think I've really been, you know, I went through this phase for five, six, seven years where everything was street photography because it was so pure and it was so real and it was not effected by myself.
Scott Stranzzante:
And I was able to make images, you know, that I felt at times where my newspaper work is a little tainted by my presence, that street photography is, is the realest work I ever do. And, and so, you know, I've kind of, you know, I do street photography occasionally, but it's kind of run its course now. It's like, you know, I still enjoy doing it, but it's no longer an obsession, you know, I've moved on to other things. And so, you know, it definitely, you know, things kind of ebb and flow in my creative space. And, you know, I guess when, when you know, something is kind of, you know, it's almost like the complete thought you're talking about, or when do you know something is done? It's kind of the same thing with the genres that I'm interested in. And, and I'm with the fine art photography I'm doing now.
Scott Stranzzante:
I assume it's important in five, six, 10 years, I'll kind of move on to something else, you know, who knows, you know, so, but you know, I love photography so much. It's such an exciting place for me to express my creativity. And I'm just so glad that I stumbled into it. And somehow it became a career because if I was a tire dealer that would not have been my ideal life, I tell you that much. So, you know, I definitely would have been a weekend warrior jumping out of planes or something because, you know, it's like, you know, the career I have, it has been exciting. It's made me, made me boring on my weekends when I'm not working that, but it definitely has been an amazing life.
Raymond Hatfield:
Scott, I don't know how to end it any better than that. I could listen to you talk all day, but I know that you have a yoga class coming up and I don't want to keep you any longer than, you know, than I already have. I want to say thank you for your time today. You've been very gracious with it. You know, the experience that you have. I can't thank you enough for sharing it with myself and the listeners before I let you go, can you let listeners know where they can find out more about you and pick up a copy of your book, common ground and shooting from the hip?
Scott Stranzzante:
Sure. It's a little complicated because my publisher last year kind of downsized, so he delivered two pallets of book to me in California. So I pallets of books in my driveway at some point. And I do have websites for my books, but those go to my publisher and I've heard lately that, you know, it's totally out of my control. I've heard people say that they haven't been able to get a book. So what you need to do is a little bit of work. You can find me on Facebook or Twitter or Instagram. Everything is at Scott Stranzzante. And the, the books, Common Ground retails for $50. And I think Shooting From the Hip is $70, but I've been selling them for $20 each or $35 as a pair. And if you can reach out to me, I've just been, having people will Venmo me money or PayPal. Me. Venmo is the same thing at Scott Stranzzante. So it's probably best to just kind of send me a direct message on Instagram or Facebook or something, and I can kind of work, walk you through the process, and then I'll just send you the books right away. And if the United States postal service delivers them, they will get you. So
Raymond Hatfield:
Yeah, mine, mine were a few days late, but I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt with all the snow that we've been getting. But I'm going to put information for, you know, of course, I'm going to post your, because I saw your Instagram photo and that's how I found to to reach out to you on PayPal. I'm going to find that photo. I'm going to put it in the show notes if anybody's interested. And they should, because I mean, these books are beautiful and it is just so clear how much work and how much effort you have put into them. And it just shines through in, in all of your work. So, Scott, thank you so much for coming on. I look forward to Keeping up with you in the future and seeing what that next project Is going to be from you. It's I know it's going to be amazing.
Scott Stranzzante:
All right. Awesome. Thank you, man.